Why is this game so restive to having strong killers?
the meta is like 4 killers and the rest are just varying shades of Z tier with hilarious issues. Like who would play clown other than a bunch of twitch streamers trying to play meme games to be funny. And they hammer down any of the tall standing killers because putting them inline with the Z tier killers is for some reason their goal. The high ranking meta is probably the same 4 killers over and over with the same perk combos and it's probably boring. Why not rework legion so his ability isn't just "boy with knife who run fast" and myers not having his stalk be a resource or active Evil within manually instead of edging it to 99 theres tons of options it's just nerfing is quicker and easier.
I bet ghostface will catch some nasty nerfs soonish and the meta will be like 2 and a half (cause myers will probably get nerfed to)
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I always thought that the problem are not killers being weak.
90% of my games at red ranks against solos are 4K or 3K with Hatch escape.
Swf groups are the problem.
Against a competent 4 men swf group that focuses gens you are guaranteed to lose.
Doesnt matter the killer you play as.
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yeah the communication advantage they have makes it feel like they're playing around you and not even engaging you at all since if even 1 survivor has eyes on you then they can communicate that and can relay that to the others who will just comfortably work on gens. Hell they can coordinate and work on the same gen with toolboxes and just blitz the gens and the killer probably barely gets 1 hook. It's why I feel smaller maps at the very least would make it so the killer can play reactively much better instead of having to bank on luck and operate on a baseless hypothesis.
My worst games as a killer are when I walk away from hooks and the survivor is unhooked right away because the carried survivor is telling another survivor who is tailing me where I am and which hook im going to. They can sabotage that hook or just crouch behind a wall and unhook them (which the unhook speed is obscene, maybe that should be increased since unhooks during chases is dumb). Or they have eyes on me and just play musical gens and just avoid me with machine like proficiency making it so I have to play at my absolute best at all times to spot anyone who's got eyes on me. (thankfully ghostface counters a lot of that sorta).
I feel like if they made unhooking more of a process removed terror radius (since that was designed for solo survivors, but with friends it's just a disadvantage) and remove the eye glow thing since that's plainly just silly and does nothing but tell the survivor that they are in range to be hit or when to throw pallets down. this is info you should learn not have signposted to you. And just make it so you can walk past survivors so bodyblocking isn't a thing and that'll be most of my gripes with this game gone. It'll be a proper survival horror game since it'll be tense, not simply silly griefing simulator with dark tones and themes.
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I beat those groups regularily as nurse. She's really strong with a specific build and two specific addons.
The problem are killers that lack chase potential or map pressure. Or both. I mean look at Demogorgon. He's pretty strong, due to his portals and shred, and only needs one or two little QoL changes. And now look at Doctor. The only thing he got is anti-stealth and a very inconsistent anti-loop. He's bad. Really bad. Or Bubba.
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I feel like the communication advantage they have is the biggest uncounterable advantage.
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Yeah it replaces like ten perks. BHVR needs to start giving solos aura reading buffs. Kindred is good, but it's still a perk slot swf uses for a second chance perk.
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I feel like what they should do is make it so the killer has some wall-hacky perks for some map awareness since the main reason killers get no kills is because they have to spend time chasing and looking for survivors and hooking them takes time to. Lot of time lost where as the survivors have so much they can do to progress to their goal even if it's minuscule
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They say they want to buff solos to swf levels, and then buff killers accordingly.
Forcing solos to waste a perk slot for a fraction of that information (ie Kindred) is not fair or practical.
There is literally no possible buff that they can give killers to make up for the amount of information that SWF has access to.
This rebalancing will NEVER happen.
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Nerf myers? Please no. He's barely able to handle good red rank survivors as he is now in my opinion.
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It's difficult because the average survivor is just really bad.
We need to balance for the high ranks but they're worried about all the lower ranks. This is why I think we should have scaling difficulty IE gens take less time at lower ranks and more time at higher ranks. I don't mean literal gen time as this is just an example, but you get my point in general.
There also comes a point where you just need to put the challenge there and make the survivors adapt and improve to overcome. Were at a time where instead of improving to overcome the challenge we'll just go to the forums and complain until the devs lower the killers bar to where they're at, no need to improve.
Most games balance from the top down to prevent the issues we are having now because they're not.
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I mean they could make it so the killer can viably play more reactively so they can't just make a fool of the killer by tailing him and unhooking the survivor when his back is turned it's part of the reason people camp. Increasing the time needed to unhook survivors and make it so it has skill checks would mean the killer wouldn't need to camp and the survivors wouldn't dread that. And it'd mean that if the killer were to get into a chase they couldn't coordinate that chase to end at the hooked survivor unhook them and just bamboozle the killer.
They just need to make it so the killer can pressure them much more often and greatly so that their communication advantage is nerfed so they are busy coordinating ways to mitigate the damage the killer does to the progress to their goal than coordinating a highly coordinated strat to just avoid the killer and gen rush and win flawlessly.
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Cause some people equailize strong and OP. If some killer is fun or strong that just means survivors are dropping like flies. Most of them cant comprehend what balance is about. Lets look at Freddy. Hes probably the most balanced killer after his "No Gen Builds" was removed. So hes the ideal thats needs to be matched, everything besides is a fail. Like Spirit is above him cause her real issue isnt solved yet (no notification when phasing starts), or Trapper whos below cause his power needs to set up way too long. Both are not balanced, thus killer mains would reference about Spirit being nerfed as being gutted, which wouldnt be right, like nurse. Shes now harder to play but still as strong as a killer may be legal. Still those people cried rivers after her nerf, thats shes not powerful anymore.
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It's difficult, but it's possible to balance for all ranks. Old base nurse was a perfect example but they messed her up for some reason.
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1). I doubt they'll ever change unhooking, but either way, if you can plan around ten times, you can plan around longer unhook times - it would solve nothing, add nothing, and actually make it easier to camp people out if the game.
2). Provide an example of how you think a buff can make it so the "killer can pressure them much more often and greatly so that their communication advantage is nerfed" without completely destroying or reinventing the game.
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they'd just regress ranks, I think what needs to happen is smaller map sizes so the gap between good and bad killers isn't quite as steep. Then it wouldn't just be ghostface,myers,nurse,spirit and the gang of Z tier killers. By design this game wasn't meant to be this happy fun bounce house kind of experience for new players, it's like learning to ride a bike you'll scrape your knees and fall over but with dedication you can suffer through it. The training wheels in that situation can be crutch perks like widening a terror radius and giving that stupid red eye glow thing.
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"they'd just regress ranks"
That's why this change would only work after implementing proper rank rewards and the dc penalties. Yeah some people "can" still do it, but it would be extremely slow, tedious and not that common at that point imo.
"I think what needs to happen is smaller map sizes so the gap between good and bad killers isn't quite as steep."
That I can agree with. Map sizes and even map design in general for terms of balance is really bad.
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Ghostface is meta at high ranks? I never see him outside purple ranks except on a rare occasion. I see more Clowns at red rank then Ghostface.
I see quite a bit of variety at red rank anymore. Billy isn't as great due to the influx of indoor maps. Rarely see him.
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- it'd make it so you can't unhook during a chase, the reason they camp is due to a perceived necessity they wouldn't camp if they didn't feel they needed to. They do it because they feel they could only get that one kill in that game. I have no idea why they'd camp 1 survivor other than that. I feel like you're a survivor main and this is why you're not understanding of this.
- just make it so killers have perks for awareness and now the playing field is even at high ranks.
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uhhh freddy isn't perfectly balanced he's far below any of the good killers. spirit needs those things you just whined about otherwise theres no tech it's just you reactingly to what was telegraphed to you blatantly. It's not a game at that point. you survivor mains have no idea how killer works beyond what's on paper.
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he's like mid-high and I feel with the gap in good killers being so wide he's meta by the loosest of definitions.
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I feel fairly confident in saying that most people will agree that Freddy is still a powerful (Top 5, at least) killer even after his add-on nerfs.
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that's true, reverse boosting is rare if it even happens at all so I wager the people regressing ranks would be a small minority to the point it's rarely an issue. The map design really need to be looked at from a standpoint of balance first and artistic design second.
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Yeah and I mean it's clear they recognize this at least as they are going through and fixing them.
However, it is extremely slow going for how many maps we have that need fixing. At the rate we're going the problem maps will be fixed in a few years...assuming not a single new map gets released in that time that needs fixing as well.
I also don't particularly think Springwood is fixed properly any way.
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So if Freddy isnt perfectly balanced and Spirit would only be tech you obviously are one of those who cant comprehend balance.
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1). Being unable to unhook during a chase will NEVER happen, and that's not the only reason camping occurs. Sometimes, camping is 100% the correct/best play. I'm definitely the ultimate survivor main, though.
2). What kind of perks? Killers already have perks that grant them situational awareness - IE Whispers, Nurse's Calling, Bitter Murmur, Rancor, I'm All Ears, etc.
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If the average survivor is really bad then why should the game be balanced around high rank gameplay?
I absolutely agree that the average survivor is not that great. I also believe that the average SWF group is not that great as well. I can beat most teams with Plague (my main killer) but if I get a really good team who split gens and are effective at surviving a chase then most likely I lose. That’s few and far between though. Most of my survivors are potatoes.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I like the idea of scaling the difficulty depending on ranks.
As you said it’s difficult to find balance. I just think it’ll drive newer players away if the game is balanced around survivors who know what they’re doing especially if they’re in an SWF group with their high rank friends.
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I wish. Ghostface is basically all I see at red ranks.
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Maybe different regions and times makes it so we see different stuff.
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I'd also argue that's what every other successful game does in terms of balancing from the top down instead of the bottom up.
Even though the majority are bad, they can fix the problem for themselves by improving at the game. The solution is in their control. When you balance from the bottom up and you are playing at the top, you have no solution, you're just SoL. That's why I think it's better balancing from the top down.
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Because we can't upset the casuals.
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Deathgarden was balanced from the top down and it was a massive flop. Casuals got absolutely slaughtered in a game balanced around a 5 man on comms.
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Actually the overall consensus on Deathgardens balance was great. That had nothing to do with why it failed.
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LOL. Yeah the veteran's AOE instadown combo was totally balanced and skillful. Very hard to do.
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The forum was only completely filled to the brim with veteran complaints because of great game balance. Never fixed because the game literally died before anything was done.
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Ok and? This game is balanced EVEN worse. Deathgarden failed for different reasons, I personally believe.
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It was just a lame repetitive game honestly. The fact you could do literally nothing and escape always irked me. Similar to DBD but at least in DBD the free escape is only for one person. And DBD is far more balanced in my opinion.
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Dbd has way more free escapes than 1 person. Keys.
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They still have to complete 3-4 generators for keys to really get everyone out. And if I know there is a key in the game I can adjust my playstyle accordingly (aka camping everyone to death).
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Deathgarden the entire team could literally sit in a corner and then get out
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Well tbh when people talk about viable killers they mean the ones who can deal with swf with coms
Take that out and suddenly a lot more killers become viable
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Honestly, in the last few weeks SWF on comms has been more beneficial than detrimental. It means a rank 1 survivor is bringing in some rank 15's with them most of the time, which means super easy devour / pop goes / STBFL / etc / procs. There's only a few full red rank survivor SWFs that I see and I know to bring in a mori against them by now.
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Sorry should have specified rank 1 swf with coms
So yeah, most of the matches most killers can work
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The game that starts around 4 hours and 2 minutes in. That is what SWF brings you most of the time. That was me playing spirit.
I love how this streamer remarks "In all my years of playing I have never seen devour hope stacked that fast"
In reality, the game has never allowed a rank 1 spirit into games with a rank 13 survivor until recently.
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