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Dead hard needs to take higher priority than a hit
Dead hard exhausted -> still getting hit without the perk actually activating/applying the effect.
Everyone knows it, everyone experienced it, everyone hates it.
The fix: we have dedicated servers. If dead hard was pressed before the hit connected (from the survivors POV) then it should have higher priority than the hit. Same concept is in dark souls pvp. If you dodged a hit on YOUR screen, you won't get any damage, even tho the hit connected from the screen of the attacker. This concept is working really really good in dark souls and same concept should be applied for dead hard. Otherwise this perk can only be used very early to close distance (which is still good, but just half of the perks potential).
TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS DEAD HARD IS WORKING AS INTENDED:
"Thanks to the reports we have received thus far, we are looking to improve certain Killer powers, perks (e.g. Dead Hard), and the interaction system (e.g. Kicking Pallets or Generators)."
Quote from the devs themselves
Comments
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Eh. It seems fine on console right now, I'm not having issues.
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Absolutely agree, this hits and hitboxes are out of hand in the dedicated servers
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Would probably look really wonky from the killer pov. You hit the survivor, they go down, you start wiping your blade and suddenly they get up, do a dash and you stop wiping your weapon.
I haven't played dark souls so I wouldn't know how it works (or looks aesthetically) so I'm just wondering how it might look and play like
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Yeah, because you aren't playing on dedicated severs lol
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In dark souls, if you attack your opponents and he succeeded dodging it (on his screen), you would only see the blood splashing and the sound cue of hitting someone. You would see that no actual damage was taken and attacks which would make you stagger (aka stun you) wouldn't apply their effect either. It would look like a normal dodge, just with blood splash.
How would I imagine this for DbD? Well the same: the survivor won't get downed, from the killers POV you would just get the blood splash but you would see that the hit didn't count since the survivor pressed dead hard and keeps running. To balance it out, the hit animation in such a scenario gets canceled so it would match the time of a whiffed attack
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I swapped to sprint burst. More time dead hard didnt work than the ones it worked. Time to let it sit.
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In a Souls game you have proper combat and weapons used by idiots who just widely swing them in massive arches. It's online isn't exactly all that well made either with phantom hits/reach, status effects triggering without taking effect, and lag that can make you get back stabbed from the front.
Dead hard works exactly how it was built to be. A chance to dodge a hit while gaining a bit of distance. You just gotta relearn the timings.
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The fact that you say "backstabed from the front" shows to me that you have 0 clue about how latency works in dark souls 1 and that you don't know how to counter it. Besides the fact that all the stuff you mentioned is absolutly non-relevant.
And no, it doesn't. Dead hard is buggy because of dedicated servers. It's was buggy before aswell but now it's worse.
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Not buggy, just bad timing and user error.
To keep using Souls games as an example, using DH is like attempting to parry someone.
In Souls you gotta predict them and account for latency or you'll tank a hit to the face to have your opponent land his attack during your parry frames. In DbD you gotta predict the Killer and account for latency to have his attack land during your i-frames. Both are the exact same thing. Both are small time windows, both depend on latency, and both can end badly if done poorly.
Git gud in other words. Like it or not, this entire thread boils down to user error in you not having proper timings to use DH or failing to build personal skill.
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Agree with this. Atm it is a 50% chance if you get hit during dead hard or not. It's just frustrating.
I use it instead of BL since it got nerfed because it is too situational now. But due to the fact that it is pure luck if you get hit during dead hard or not, I try to use it only to get distance on loops. Still, this is only half of the perks potential...
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Nope.
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I think hitboxes in general need to be revisited in Dedicated Servers.
Hatchets on Huntresses are busted too.
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I've had this issue happen on consoles. It's why I stopped using Dead Hard. Was using Balanced Landing until it got nerfed so now I'm using Sprint Burst.
To the people that say it's bad timing. When the word "Exhausted" pops up and you are hit, but see your exhausted status effect going down, something's wrong. Dead Hard went off in that case.
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I like the usage of "git gud" when dark souls is being used as an example 😊
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You're using Dead Hard to bait a hit?
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Pfffft pathetic, clearly you use Dead Hard to avoid the gaze of Michael Myers.
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No, buggy.
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I am probably going to use sprint burst until they fix dead hard.
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+1 DH has a cooldown. If exhaustion procs the invulnerbility/dash should too. There's is no question about it.
@Chewy102 It doesn't sound like you have used the perk. "Git gud" is an universal solution. Problem is, you can't adjust your timing when the real latency indicator is hidden behind the server ping. I have 40ms on average but still play against killers that warp around the map like a nurse (with no inidication of it beforehand). The perk has become very inconsistent since dedicated servers.
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Again, you arent understanding it.
Thanks to people demanding dedicated servers without understanding what that brings everyone now has to deal with double latency when interacting with another player.
Your input of using DH needs to reach the Killer. That only happens after you send it to the server THEN the server sends it to the Killer. Dealing with both your ping and the Killers ping fir double the latency. You have to use DH a LOT sooner now or if you intend to dodge or bait an attack.
Back when it was P2P you could simply react to the Killer easy enough thanks to only a single ping. But we got what you all asked for in dedicated servers, even though people (like myself) warned you about this EXACT problem of double latency.
Both a case of git gud, and getting what you asked for.
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It's not a dedicated server problem tho that's what people don't know, because console doesn't even have dedicated servers and the same thing happens on console, so explain that.
People need to stop saying it's because of the servers and maybe the devs can figure out why it's happening.
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Who is "you"? Lmao noone here has ever made a statement that he wanted dedicated servers, nice strawman bud. And no, it's not a matter of git gud. It's a matter of optimising the game and define priorities in ingame actions. If you can't accept it it's in you bud.
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Well, before dedicated servers it wasn't happening to me, unless the killer had like 400 ping or hiccups in his connection. So the logical conclusion is: dedicated servers.
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That's because console players are not playing on the servers.
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Don't even get me started on her.
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That doesn't make sense, before the same latency was there for survivors. The only difference is now killers suffer from lag too.
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@CrispyChestnuts that’s not the entire picture. Lots and lots have changed with dedicated servers. Killer lag is just one little detail.
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This, until I see drastic improvement I won’t use a slot on DH
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Right about that... It's like the last night I had a weird situation near a hook. One guy started unhooking another in front of me, I've made a delayed swing and hit an unhooked person (the unhooking guy stood behind him so I wouldn't be able to reach him in time). Unhooked person flinched from a hit... but didn't go down. In confusion "maybe it was BT and it had no visual for some reason?" I've attacked him again... and now he had the BT. Basically, visual of unhooking was so desynchronized with actual action that I even seen a person flinching from a hit standing on the ground, but the action wasn't finished yet.
So no, please no, no priorities. Survs has BS on their screens, killers has on theirs. Devs should work on removing BS from the screen, not adding more of it.
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It is working as intended currently. If the killer hits you before you dead hard, you go down. Even if you get the exhausted status effect. The server didn't receive your dead hard input before the killer hit you and that's why you sometimes see your exhaustion go away even though on your client you got exhausted.
This is now more noticeable because of dedicated servers because the latency between the killer and you has effectively been doubled.
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IMO, dead hard is designed to gain extra ground on running a loop, (pallets) that’s what I use it for. Sometimes, the killer can just be really good at tricking you into using your dead hard and then attack. The perk can almost become useless when a killer is proficient at it. Usually won’t come across this until you are in red ranks. I usually don’t use it for this reason but anything before that I think it can be useful. But dead hard is useful on small loops because eventually the killer will figure you out so it’s nice to use it and then move on to the next loop if possible.
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dead hard is working fine for me, the only issue is myself trying to be greedy and use it at the last second which is usually as im getting hit. also it should not, making a perk that can safely get you to pallets even safer is just dumb and its already a good perk which is used by good survivors to get to vaults and pallets they otherwise would not make it to.
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Ah yes, the user error when you use Dead Hard, get hit, and still have exhaustion applied the split second after you get downed because you somehow got hit through the Dead Hard animation before the animation even had time to end.
If this is bait and not just lack of Dead Hard experience, then it’s pretty good bait.
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Just give back the iframes DH used to have the second you activate it.
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As intended? Who says that? It's definently not as desired.
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"Thanks to the reports we have received thus far, we are looking to improve certain Killer powers, perks (e.g. Dead Hard), and the interaction system (e.g. Kicking Pallets or Generators)."
I'd say it's definitely not working as intended since the devs are trying to improve it.
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Thank you for the quote, helps to shut down everyone with his "as intended, git gud" claims, I will add this :)
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So to the killer PoV. They hit you, you go down, then pop back up and dash away.
🤨
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Hey I'll take that change, if it means if my grab animation starts it'll pull the survivor from where they ran into my grasp because on my side I clicked :P
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That would be killer sided. Can't have that.
😉
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It should take priority honestly. Just like the killee got hatch priority rn.
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No, rather you just hear and see blood splashing while you see the dead hard animation. Ofc, the killer wouldn't get punished with weapon cleaning as if he hit someone. Instead the animation gets canceled of the killer so he can keep chasing as if he whiffed. It's a bit difficult to explain in words. If you watch the example from dark souls you would get the idea much better :)
Post edited by DwightOP on0 -
That's actually something which should take higher priority aswell. Good that you mentioned it, I might do a separate post for that aswell
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This entire discussion boils down to whether hits should be clientside or serverside for the killer. Right now they appear to be clientside, because hits can override DH obviously.
This is a balance question: Who is punished more in the grand-scale, a killer missing an attack or, 1 of the 4 survivors going down a health state?
Keep in mind that killers get punished in every other aspect with dedicated servers, though. Powers, breaking pallets/generators, movement is all delayed.
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I agree Dead Hard should take priority, but i somewhat disagree with the reasoning.
I think Dead Hard should take priority because it's an ability that's on a cooldown that won't recover while running.
Killer main weapon hits are on a very small cooldown, whether they hit or miss, and can be used whenever they please, plus they're basekit.
Of course, if they time the Dead Hard wrong (and it's a pretty small window), the hit should land.
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That's one way to handle it. But it's not uncommon for defensive moves to give them a higher priority handled by the server. So in situations when the survivor client triggers DH and the input reached the server, it can negate hits during the iframes. In such scenario the bigger latency by having a middleman doesn't play much a role for the survivor, because their defensive action is priotized in that case.
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As someone else said.
It wouldn't be to that extreme but it would feel like 100% ######### for Killers to land a hit and have that taken away. It doesn't take much either for Killers to lose the game. A single missed attack means that Survivor likely gets another loop or reaches a pallet/window. A single mistake can cost the Killer the entire game. That isn't hyperbole. One mistake is all that's needed for a game to snowball against the Killer.
Iv seen it countless times in my gameplay and others. If you make it so a Survivor can 1v1 the Killer then what chance does a Killer have against 4 Survivors? That's what you have to remember. That's why Killer was made host in P2P and why Killer has priority for dealing damage, it's kinda required for Killer gameplay to function.
And no. Most games don't make defensive skills have priority. They tend to require you to time them with an attack in order for those skills to work. Blocking only works if you are blocking before the attack hits. Parring/counters only work if you time it well. Predict and react to your opponent. This is why fighter games NEVER have servers! To reduce latency as much as possible in order to allow you to react and predict someone with reasonable timings.
But no. P2P wasn't good enough for this community. We demanded servers even with the warnings of some players, the devs, and the freaking laws of physics all saying it would cause problems. This community just had to have servers and we got exactly what we asked for. Double latency for everyone causing problem after problem. Are the more stable? Yeah. Are they giving better quality gameplay. Nope!
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Speaking from experience, it seems like Dead Hard has some sort of short delay before activating. I don't know if this is intentional or not- but I have gotten downed after getting Exhausted multiple times, usually when I'm going for a last second Dead Hard.
This makes me think that Dead Hard Exhausts you the moment you press the button, but has a short delay before actually starting the animation in which you're invincible.
That being said, I have, on one but only one occasion, activated Dead Hard and been hit during the animation.
So there has to be SOME issue with it.
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I use to avoid hag's traps
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