We have temporarily disabled The Houndmaster (Bone Chill Event queue) and Baermar Uraz's Ugly Sweater Cosmetic (all queues) due to issues affecting gameplay.

Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
The Dead by Daylight team would like your feedback in a Player Satisfaction survey.

We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.

Access the survey HERE!

Some data on Legion's performance since the Oni update

24

Comments

  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,296

    Thanks for the stats Almo they are always appreciated.

    I sometimes wonder if they are appreciated though as if it fits what one wants to see they are right but if it doesn't they don't mean anything and should be disregarded.

    What it comes down to is trust. If you will never trust the devs no stats will ever matter.

    Stats also don't reflect someones fun aftwr a change so there will always be a discussion on that point and tbh no one is right or wrong in that discussion as it will always be subjective to ones personal taste.

    I feel the Nurse could do with some stats released after the change not only how well they can do but also how many play her compared to before the change. Many other factors could also be shown regarding travel time without hits, blink misses between all ranks and separated ranks along with them for each platform.

    Again the Nurse stats won't show a degree of fun but less people playing may be an indication of that. We could then compare it to the most viable killers like Spirit or Billy to see if those numbers increase. Also add in Trapper since they are in the rift after all so that could account for lower number of any killer.

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212

    I think this needs the disclaimer that comes 50 times with every piece of statistics we get given;

    "Conclusions should not be drawn from this data as there are many variables that can affect it."

  • Talmeer
    Talmeer Member Posts: 1,520

    I always appreciate stats, because they bring something to look for in the jungle of 1001 opinions, moods and standpoints.

    I also think that the new Legion patch was a good one - otherwise I would have still stay away from dbd.

    Still, the Legion was nerfed so much with the first Legion patch, that I think that the Legion could need 1-2 small patches.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Killer x vs Survivor Population. Where is Survivor x vs Killer Population?

    Until you change the way you look at your stats, you will never have a fair and balanced game at high ranks.

    Nurse being at the bottom after two major nerfs is a disgrace.

  • I remember there being a discussion of a Japanese CM that stated only the killer's rank was taken into account. Can you clarify that these statistics represent matches where both the killer and all 4 survivors are of red rank?

  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,813

    @Almo Are you related to Elmo?

  • thereals3vin
    thereals3vin Member Posts: 24

    So a 71.2% kill rate at red ranks is 12/17? How do killer mains continue to say the game is unbalanced? That means the top killer is likely above 75% or close to it. I understand the numbers get some inflation from weird things but damn. 1/4 chance to win as a survivor and yet we have all the advantages and the game skews towards us. 🤣

  • tortrader
    tortrader Member Posts: 539

    Legion is overperforming, more than 50/50. He needs another nerf.

  • Talmeer
    Talmeer Member Posts: 1,520

    Both sides getting nerfs *head shacking*.

    Also not every killer has the 71.2% kill rate. Some have more, but the most have less. Even the Legion has less under different cirumstances, if you have the stats read completely and not just fly over it for cherry-picking.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    He does have a point..theres one thing that makes legion the worst killer...care to guess what?

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    People will do worse vs them..until they adjust..we see this with every killer change..and release..just look at oni now compared to just a couple weeks ago..people learned he wasnt nearly as strong as people whom ran to conclusions claimed..legion still has 1 fatal flaw that only he and plague share...legion cannot use his power to secure a chase..ever...and plague half the time cant either..however she does have benefits that legion lacks and so shes overall better off

  • EverflowingRiver
    EverflowingRiver Member Posts: 562

    Length of study is absolutely important to the validity of most studies. Thank goodness the medical industry didn't take your opinion of statistics into account when studying the effects on smoking.

  • EverflowingRiver
    EverflowingRiver Member Posts: 562

    Enlighten me then instead of calling me out. I was just using one example to make a broad point. I'll continue with that example to keep it simple. If I did a study on a smoker's lungs after 1 month of cigarette use, I might not see any drastic changes. But what if I looked at their lungs after 2 months? 2 years? Then 2 decades? I would finally see that damage was done. Same goes for any statistical study. Longevity matters.

  • gantes
    gantes Member Posts: 1,611

    Just a nitpick for everyone here: in every single PVP game I've played the hardest characters to play have the lowest win rates, even if they're good. In League of Legends for example there are characters who historically have abysmal win rate in regular play and still are disgustingly good in pro play.

    If Nurse, with her high skill cap, had the same kill rate as a killer like Freddy who is absurdly easy, then we'd have a problem. She most definitely doesn't need a buff. The most that should be done for her is make her more accessible to increase her kill rate for lesser players while making her power level at a high level of play is unchanged, but that's a lot of work and the game has many more pressing issues.

  • gantes
    gantes Member Posts: 1,611

    But yeah, most reasonable people knew that the Legion changes were a net buff. No surprises here.

  • Almo
    Almo Member Posts: 1,120

    We're not against making more positive adjustments to Legion. We'll see how this all pans out over the next few releases.

  • Almo
    Almo Member Posts: 1,120

    The first big Legion update did not significantly alter their killrate. It did, however, lower the DC rate against them by 40%. So I remain unconvinced that it was a nerf.

  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213
    edited December 2019

    Or people were just less likely to DC this month,

    I'm just saying, you are making an argument for causation when it could have just been a coincidental correlation that has occured.

  • Almo
    Almo Member Posts: 1,120

    This month? I'm talking about the month before and the month after the Big Legion Gameplay Update a while back.

  • bgbomb
    bgbomb Member Posts: 434

    So Dev really use kill rate to balance?

  • UncannyLuck
    UncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    That's a super long response that doesn't really address anything I said. I assume good faith posts by Behavior, yes, because I don't particularly have any way to independently verify their results.

    I post people don't understand stats because they don't. It's usually in response to people saying things like 70% is 2k on average, showing they fail to understand averages. Or complaining about 3 months vs 1 month with averages. I did mention that the one month might also have outliers, but I would like to see some evidence of that. For example, better killers might've picked up legion this month which would raise his kill rate possibly even if he got worse.

  • thereals3vin
    thereals3vin Member Posts: 24

    No, if he is 12/17 then MOST killers (I.e. 11/17) have a higher kill rate than that.

  • UncannyLuck
    UncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    A bad study that takes a long time is still a bad study. It does not become more valid because you do it wrong for a year.

    I'm also not going to hold Behavior to medical study standards, since the FDA barely holds medical companies to those 😛

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994

    So since the game has more pressing issues, just wash your hands of her and be done?

  • DingDongs
    DingDongs Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2019

    Everyone talk about legion and nurse

    While me still being sad my big fat boy Clown is still low tier while the stats/data literally PROVE IT but devs always ignore him

  • tetsuo
    tetsuo Member Posts: 151

    lol poor nurse...

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Extremely well against survivors that don't know how to exploit the new nurse. The truth of the matter is, she has more counterplay now than any killer in the game, hence her extremely low killrates.

  • FondaDix
    FondaDix Member Posts: 173

    You my friend are 100% right. I main Clown and Legion and Plague. So every match is a up hill struggle lol.

  • Keene_Kills
    Keene_Kills Member Posts: 649

    Ewww, propaganda stats with too many variables to be substantial!

  • konchok
    konchok Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 1,719

    I agree that this needs to be done. It would need to be a buff in one way and a nerf in another to not increase the ceiling. The floor of the nurse needs to go up and the ceiling needs to stay the same.

    I think most people would disagree with me, but this is my suggestion. Increase her walk speed to 110 percent. Reduce her blink to 1 blink. Change her ultra rare so that she gets 2 additional blinks but can't blink through walls.

    This is all subject to testing. But this would make her much easier to play but would not change her power level overall.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Focusing on the nurse, she has the lowest killrate and requires serious buffing. Now we know why nurse was nerfed to begin with, twice I should add. Some actually got good with her. This completely puts all power in the survivors now because one thing is always never mentioned in balance decisions. What about a survivor getting good? Now put four together that know how to loop and juke and rush gens. A killer performance is always analyzed against the entire population but never the other way around. If the devs had done this, the nurse would have never been touched, AND maps would have immediately been redesigned to make the other killers viable.

  • LetsPlayTogether
    LetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    There is no logic behind saying the nerfes were too hard on Nurse by knowing why the stats are like that all the time. Nurse will always be on the bottom, cause shes hard to handle. I had so many baby nurses in redranks like never before.

  • underlord99
    underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    I thought you guys said kill rates didnt mean much ??

  • UncannyLuck
    UncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    Yeah I think clown could use a little love based on the kill rates, and then everyone probably needs to be adjusted down if they're aiming for 2k average. Obviously fix the emblem system too so it doesn't feel like you've gotta 3k+ to rank up at red ranks