Insightful Hatch Standoff Solution
If the killer is within 12m of the hatch, it will close and prevent a survivor from entering. When the killer is beyond 12m the hatch will be open and the survivor is free to use it.
Let's take a look at a few scenarios.
1) Either Survivor finds hatch first but the killer is near OR killer finds hatch first, then survivor cannot escape. Killer can stands on/near hatch to prevent escape. Survivors only option is to do a gen. When a gen is done, now killer has a choice; stay on/near hatch to stop escape or leave hatch open and go to that gen to try finding the survivor. Rinse repeat until gates are powered at which point the survivor basically wins, but can still in theory lose if they make a really bad play.
2) Survivor finds hatch first, and killer is not near. Survivor escapes. Easy, simple.
3) Killer is chasing last survivor, the chase leads to the hatch. As long as the killer is close enough in the chase, the hatch is closed and they get the survivor.
Inb4 "12m is too small/big"... Well it's just a placeholder guys, the actual number would require playtesting obviously. I think 12m is the range you can hear the hatch so I think that should be the range. Because then killer can't hear the hatch like survivors, so they have to actually see it and know where it is which makes it a little bit more fair to survivor. It also doesn't give survivor false hope in a chase when the hear hatch but then can't take it, they will just think to keep running and try to get out of the chase not necessary find the hatch during the chase.
Comments
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Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.
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Sounds like an interesting idea, and should be tested (along with all the ideas). Because trying new things is awesome and can lead to finding new ways to alter and change the game.
Thank you for your contribution.
As possible criticism to the idea, I would have to add: have you considered any possible flaws or problems that could occur? And what were they?
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I have an even better idea: 1) remove the grab mechanic from the hatch and 2) increase the amount of time it takes for the hatch to open to around 1-2 minutes, if in that time the killer hasn’t found the survivor then he doesn’t deserve the kill.2
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@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
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@Twix said:
I have an even better idea: 1) remove the grab mechanic from the hatch and 2) increase the amount of time it takes for the hatch to open to around 1-2 minutes, if in that time the killer hasn’t found the survivor then he doesn’t deserve the kill.Survivor will just hide. When there is 1 guy left and you don't have Whispers there is no finding them if they know what they are doing. Killers would just stand on the hatch for the time and then patrol gens. That's not fun for either player and doesn't solve the underlying issue of both players standing on an open hatch and no one acts.
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Killer should be able to instadown with no cool down within 32m of hatch0
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This is a very good solution but I don't think that the devs take forums seriously. If they did, the game would be a lot better now.
I hope they see this thread and at least give it a try if they can't do anything better than this.
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@Delfador said:
This is a very good solution but I don't think that the devs take forums seriously. If they did, the game would be a lot better now.I hope they see this thread and at least give it a try if they can't do anything better than this.
I honestly don't want them to take anything on forums seriously LOL. I've seen people on forum communities make suggestions and it gets in the game, and personally playing as killer and survivor this is fair to me.
A friend brought up the situation with keys, and it does make it tricky. Probably the best thing is to just let the guy with the key escape, then the hatch is considered "open" for 60 seconds but the same rules apply, so if the killer is close only the guy with the key can go in. If there is more than 1 survivor left then after 60 seconds the hatch is closed again and won't open even if the killer leaves.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
no it wasnt, not untill after the last generator had been done, since doing another generator opened the hatch again, and it dosnt matter if it was permanent or not, closing the hatch has been done and tested, and it was the worst idea for trying to solve the hatch standoff ever, dosnt matter how you do it, closing the hatch is not the way to go about it.
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@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
no it wasnt, not untill after the last generator had been done, since doing another generator opened the hatch again, and it dosnt matter if it was permanent or not, closing the hatch has been done and tested, and it was the worst idea for trying to solve the hatch standoff ever, dosnt matter how you do it, closing the hatch is not the way to go about it.
On PTB, once the hatch was closed it would open again if someone did a gen. This is way to OP for the killer, especially if they have Whispers they will find you. But there can be circumstances to closing the hatch, such as killer within X distance.
You are just being stubborn.
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And what about this idea:
Once hatch situation comes up killer can partitialy close hatch and some kind of totem will appear.
Survivor has to cleanse this totem to reopen hatch. This action will have hard skill checks (overchardge 3 for example), once failed killer gets visual/sound notification and progress is reduced by x%. Time needed is longer with Hex: Thrill of the hunt equiped but killer don´t get notification when survivor start.Just idea after reading this thread
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
no it wasnt, not untill after the last generator had been done, since doing another generator opened the hatch again, and it dosnt matter if it was permanent or not, closing the hatch has been done and tested, and it was the worst idea for trying to solve the hatch standoff ever, dosnt matter how you do it, closing the hatch is not the way to go about it.
On PTB, once the hatch was closed it would open again if someone did a gen. This is way to OP for the killer, especially if they have Whispers they will find you. But there can be circumstances to closing the hatch, such as killer within X distance.
You are just being stubborn.
being stubborn has nothing to do with it, any good killer and/or survivor will tell you that hatch closing should never be a thing, in any way, find another way to solve the issue.
On another note, Hatch Standoff wouldnt even be a thing if Survivors would just jump into the hatch and killers would just hit the survivors, but nooo, survivors want to stand on the hatch and teabag while the killer is coming, or if the killer finds the hatch first, he/she feels entitled to the kill, that is the real problem.
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I'd be down with this idea. Obviously we need to test it out in the PTB before it goes to the live build.
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There are many potential ways to attempt to balance the hatch, but the reality is that the entire endgame needs to be reworked. The hatch just doesn't fit with the current implementation of the endgame.
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@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
no it wasnt, not untill after the last generator had been done, since doing another generator opened the hatch again, and it dosnt matter if it was permanent or not, closing the hatch has been done and tested, and it was the worst idea for trying to solve the hatch standoff ever, dosnt matter how you do it, closing the hatch is not the way to go about it.
On PTB, once the hatch was closed it would open again if someone did a gen. This is way to OP for the killer, especially if they have Whispers they will find you. But there can be circumstances to closing the hatch, such as killer within X distance.
You are just being stubborn.
being stubborn has nothing to do with it, any good killer and/or survivor will tell you that hatch closing should never be a thing, in any way, find another way to solve the issue.
On another note, Hatch Standoff wouldnt even be a thing if Survivors would just jump into the hatch and killers would just hit the survivors, but nooo, survivors want to stand on the hatch and teabag while the killer is coming, or if the killer finds the hatch first, he/she feels entitled to the kill, that is the real problem.
If the hatch were closed when killer was close, there would be no standoff. The survivor either leaves and does something else or nothing because the killer can just down/hook if they came near hatch. Survivor does a gen, killer can stay on hatch or go check gen and leave hatch open. Survivor can escape but not guaranteed. Killer can still catch him.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing was already tested, and it was a bad idea, like the majority of the community who actually knows a thing or 2 had said all along.But that was permanent closure. I'm talking about only if the killer stands on or near the hatch. If they walk away you can use it.
no it wasnt, not untill after the last generator had been done, since doing another generator opened the hatch again, and it dosnt matter if it was permanent or not, closing the hatch has been done and tested, and it was the worst idea for trying to solve the hatch standoff ever, dosnt matter how you do it, closing the hatch is not the way to go about it.
On PTB, once the hatch was closed it would open again if someone did a gen. This is way to OP for the killer, especially if they have Whispers they will find you. But there can be circumstances to closing the hatch, such as killer within X distance.
You are just being stubborn.
being stubborn has nothing to do with it, any good killer and/or survivor will tell you that hatch closing should never be a thing, in any way, find another way to solve the issue.
On another note, Hatch Standoff wouldnt even be a thing if Survivors would just jump into the hatch and killers would just hit the survivors, but nooo, survivors want to stand on the hatch and teabag while the killer is coming, or if the killer finds the hatch first, he/she feels entitled to the kill, that is the real problem.
If the hatch were closed when killer was close, there would be no standoff. The survivor either leaves and does something else or nothing because the killer can just down/hook if they came near hatch. Survivor does a gen, killer can stay on hatch or go check gen and leave hatch open. Survivor can escape but not guaranteed. Killer can still catch him.
thats exactly how it is already, except the hatch cant be closed, if the killer gets there first, the surv can go do gens and see if the killer leaves it or not, no reason for a perk for that.
Hatch closing is never gonna be a thing, its the single dumbest thing people have ever suggested to try and solve "hatch standoffs", and has already been tested, not in the form you suggest, but hatch closing is hatch closing, just like dog poop is the same regardless of the bag you put it in.
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@Succubuzz said:
thats exactly how it is already, except the hatch cant be closed, if the killer gets there first, the surv can go do gens and see if the killer leaves it or not, no reason for a perk for that.No. If the killer stands on the hatch and survivor runs up to them, it's a stalemate. Survivor can't jump in because they get grabbed, killer can't swing because survivor escapes during blood wipe. If hatch closes than killer stands on it, now survivor cannot do that and force a stalemate. They MUST go do gens. If the killer leaves they can escape. If killer refuses to leave hatch then gens get done and exit gates powered. The problem isn't when that happens, the problem is the stalemate. So remove the option from survivor to trigger a stalemate now the game continues in some fashion. You also don't get to escape by just finding the hatch in a chase, you have to lose the killer and they have to be far enough away to jump in. That's a fair solution to both parties.
@Succubuzz said:
Hatch closing is never gonna be a thing, its the single dumbest thing people have ever suggested to try and solve "hatch standoffs", and has already been tested, not in the form you suggest, but hatch closing is hatch closing, just like dog poop is the same regardless of the bag you put it in.Closing it forever is dumb. Closing in under specific conditions is fine. You keep looking at this like I'm saying it's forever, no, it's only as long as killer is near. If killer leaves then surv can escape. Surv can bait them to leaving by doing gens, or even some other dumb stuff given the circumstance. But they can't stalemate the game anymore. Both parties have a fair shot, survivor has fair shot to escape and killer has fair shot to stop survivor from escaping. And it doesn't change anything about the game's mechanics.
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That would mean the killer gets the survivor almost every time. Not much better from the hatch closing.0
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@Chi said:
That would mean the killer gets the survivor almost every time. Not much better from the hatch closing.No. If survivor finds hatch when killer is not around they escape. Also if the range where it closes is just beyond the range you hear it, then killer can't find the hatch by sound they have to see it. That's a lot harder for killer even though they have free reign of the map, sometimes hatch can be well hidden.
If they both know where hatch is, and killer stands on it, well survivor is free to do anything they want outside of the range of the killer. Killer has to leave hatch open if the survivor is doing something else. But the survivor can't just take hatch with killer there, and going near it is a death sentence (istead of a stalemate like we have now).
You can't just jump into the hatch during a chase, you have to bait the killer to leave. If they don't you do gens, when they are all done you are now in control because you have 3 places to escape.
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BUMP
Bumping this thread now that Q&A has happened. They said they will be looking at the forums for feedback.
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This is actually a good approach to the hatch standoff dilemma. Plus I can envision a cinematic short that a Meg is getting chased, sees the hatch, and since the killer is right behind her, it closes which makes it lore friendly since the Meg saw the opened hatch and had hope of escaping which the Entity thrives off of. Good thinking there bud. Very insightful.
Pros of your proposed change:
1: If the killer camps the hatch, then the survivor can just do the remaining gens and if the killer decides to leave the hatch to check on the gens, then the survivor can sneak over the the now open hatch.
2 It's lore friendly since the survivor still has hope of escape in either case of the killer camping the hatch or not.
3: It'll actually make the survivor play cautious and strategically if they hope to outsmart the killer instead of just having the easy 'as long as I'm at the hatch I'm mostly safe' option.
4: Plus with some tweaks to it, maybe make it so once the killer is in the closing distance of the hatch, the hatch closes like 5 seconds after which would allow the survivor to still be able to JUST make it or be grabbed and taken to their gruesome fate. Which also adds to the overall immersion and feel of what DbD is supposed to be.
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Problem: This just forces the killer to stand there and wait as the survivor powers generators, since leaving the hatch to go find and him them leaves you with an empty net. You'd still have a hatch standoff, you'd just be having a standoff with yourself. The survivor knows they can't take it, and the killer knows they can't leave.
Personally, I would rather see an interaction for the killer to close the hatch, and then a ten second interaction for a survivor to re-open it (resets if you let go). That way it's still an option for the survivor, but the killer has a little more freedom to move around and search for them.
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@Peanits said:
Problem: This just forces the killer to stand there and wait as the survivor powers generators, since leaving the hatch to go find and him them leaves you with an empty net. You'd still have a hatch standoff, you'd just be having a standoff with yourself. The survivor knows they can't take it, and the killer knows they can't leave.Personally, I would rather see an interaction for the killer to close the hatch, and then a ten second interaction for a survivor to re-open it (resets if you let go). That way it's still an option for the survivor, but the killer has a little more freedom to move around and search for them.
Killers don't need to sit directly on the hatch though. They can bait the survivor to go for the hatch by staying close and then moving in when they see them make a break for it, then it closes and they can catch the survivor. If the killer camps the hatch, the proper thing for the survivor to do is gens. That's what they should be doing right now anyway, but instead most run up and force a stalemate. The stalemate is when both players are on the hatch waiting for the other to move. With my suggestion there is no stalemate, because if the survivor is found the killer wins. Killer forces the survivor to do a gen, at which point there is a bit of cat & mouse play as the killer tries to find the survivor near that gen and the survivor tries to sneak past to get the hatch. If the killer decides to just continuously sit on the hatch, the survivor finishes all the gens and powers the gates, now the killer lost. It solves the standoff by not allowing such a thing to happen. Killer is still in a predicament, and have to make careful decisions about where they go and such, but they have control over the hatch so long as they are near.
What you suggest won't solve the problem of both players sitting on the hatch waiting for the other to move. It also won't balance out the hatch mechanic itself to make it more fun/fair for both players. 10 seconds is almost nothing, if the killer leaves the hatch the survivor can still take it pretty easy. And with that there is no incentive to do gens because you can just open the hatch WAY faster. It's also not something that's fair to survivor, since the killer can STILL camp the hatch and force them to do a gen, then close it again and now they know where the survivor is generally. With my suggestion, as killer you either defend the hatch or look for the survivor. Those are you options, and currently the "defending" part is broken because of the standoff. If both players aren't just sitting on the hatch, there is no standoff. If the survivor is actively doing something to escape and/or the killer is actively trying to kill them, there is no standoff.
Killer shouldn't be able to so easily stop a hatch escape, if the hatch is active that should be a constant concern for the killer. If they can just close it and not worry about it, then it's like why even have the hatch? Really, a lot of killers complain about the hatch when 1) in those games chances are they will pip/double pip whether or not they kill the guy, 2) they don't want to play to avoid the hatch (slugging, etc), and 3) they think hatch is a "free escape" when it's not since survivors need to do at least 2 gens for it to spawn. If I want a 4k I play to avoid hatch, it's that simple and killers just want hand outs IMO.
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