http://dbd.game/killswitch
Console: should the game be balanced around SWF?
As a killer on console, 90% of the matches are against 3-4 man SWF groups. I feel like this differs from the PC version, PC gaming in general attracts more lone wolves whereas consoles are more casual and people like to play with their friends, using the built-in voice com functionality.
To make matters worse, due to a serious lack of killers, as a green rank killer you will always be facing purple or even red rank survivors because the matchmaker has no viable killers for those groups.
Unfortunately the game is not balanced around this, so what happens is complete domination. I'm "the killer" but I feel more like the school nerd being purposefully bullied and humiliated by 4 people in the schoolyard. There is no reason for SWF to "respect" the killer because I'm really not much of a threat if they play and communicate properly. They know it too because they will teabag and use emotes whenever they can, trying to piss me off.
I can't be the only one who feels like this. And no, I'm not a bad killer, but I pretty much have to play a perfect game to defeat SWF whereas they get a ton of leeway for mistakes. I can bring a Mori and get a guaranteed 3-4k but there's no endless supply of those.
Bottom line: playing killer isn't fun. Because of this, there is a massive shortage of killers (despite only 1 killer being needed for 4 other players!). You'd expect a shortage of survivors but it's the other way around, by a LONG shot. This needs to change, because no killers = no game. I'd switch to a survivor main but I don't like 10 min queue times.. Killers have 10 second queue times.
Again, talking console here.
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I have fun as killer on console. The matchmaking issue isn't exclusive and doesn't come from a lack of killers, it is a product of inflated survivor ranks. I usually get at least 2 kills against full swf without using ruin but I mainly play Billy and GF who are console top tiers atm imo. Try improving at the game and/or bringing map offerings and tell me how it goes for you man.
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Killer queue times = practically instant, survivor queue times = 1-10 minutes. A killer shortage is a fact, otherwise this large difference in queue times wouldn't exist.
I am pretty good at the game but you simply can't beat a coordinated team with voice comms unless you play a 100% perfect game (whereas they can make many mistakes and still escape), and on console that's nearly the only kind of team you face. The game isn't balanced around killers meeting a super coordinated 3-4 man group every time.
I don't have the PC version of the game but I would really like to compare the matchmaking. I feel like the PC version has way more solo players. This is also reflected in the videos I see on YT by known streamers. Meanwhile all I get is 3-4 people popping into my lobby at exactly the same time, with perks that complement each other.. I very very rarely play a game against solo survivors. It's immediately noticeable they lack comms and I dominate them.
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If the survivor queues are only a problem at red ranks it's obviously a lack of red rank killers problem and not a lack of any killers problem. Ranking system bad as I always say.
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Yeah I mostly get swf too. Some are chill but lots will just focus on trying to be antagonistic as possible over doing objectives and all DCing if/when you get the upper hand, you really crave a semi-normal game after a few of those in a row.
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I don't really mind that it's SWF, or Red Ranks, I'll whoop their butts or they will escape. Usually I whoop their butts. I usually play Michael Myers, Ghostface, Legion, and Demogorgon. Occasionally I'll play Freddy, but I just feel scummy playing him for some reason.
I don't feel bullied 90% of the time, there is always that 10% where there always seems to be a pallet loop available to the survivors, but most of the time I can down people pretty quickly. And that cocky attitude they have usually vanishes very quickly. I think being both adept at both Survivors, especially in a SWF group, and as killer helps. Being in a SWF group gives you insight on how they might play, and you can counter that style by playing smart.
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Survivor queues are a problem at all ranks. Rank 11 survivor atm.. takes long to find a match solo. As SWF it can easily take 10 mins. And that's during primetime on PS4.
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1) Thank you for saying console is mostly SWF. I've had this discussion with @ScottJund and he doesn't seem to want to believe me when I say this. On Xbox at red ranks literally every game is 3 or 4 man SWF. Though recently (since Oni update) I've been getting a lot more solos but I think that's because matchmaking for survivor is ######### up right now. Once they fix it things will go back to normal.
2) While it sucks, I disagree that the game should be balanced around SWF. Instead we need limits on SWF. One instance of a perk among the group (if you are solo this rule is ignored). Maybe tweak the RNG to favor killers. Also killers should get some incentive to take the match AND not DC (eg. extra emblem points, extra BP, protection against loss of add-ons if the rank discrepancy is too great, etc.). Technically speaking you can win against most SWF groups most of the time, it just requires you play like an absolute jerk or use super overpowered builds/add-ons/mori.
@Tr0g "A killer shortage is a fact, otherwise this large difference in queue times wouldn't exist." This might be happening, but from what we heard on the dev stream it seems to be an issue with matchmaking. I guess we will find out in the next update.
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Killers between ranks 16-20 have queue times due to MM issues. Ranks 1-15.. no queue time whatsoever. When I press ready I can't even grab a drink, instant lobby with 4 people and 1 min timer.
Definitely a shortage of killers. Which is worrying considering killers only need to make up 1/5 of the population. People have a tendency to flock towards the "stronger" side and the game heavily favors survivors, to the point where killers are bullied. Being a killer is actually really stressful, whenever I play survivor I'm amazed at how relaxing it is and how forgivable the gameplay is.
And yes, my gut tells me SWF is MUCH more common on consoles, because it's almost every game. Which makes sense because console gaming is more social than PC gaming.
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That means there could be a shortage yes but that doesn't mean the reason is to play the side that is stronger.
This happened a few months back when there was a shortage of survivors and the devs stated this on stream. This was stated as being a bug with matchmaking but people will speculate regardless.
So if it is a lack of one side then we have to look at when this started happening which was not long after the rift came out. Logically then it says more are playing a side they may not have invested much time into before.
Say 500 players who were in ranks 5-1 and normally play killer move over to play survivor just for challenges in theory they will probably be lower ranked so it affects 500 lobbies.
Now if 500 players who normally play survivor move over to play killer which again would suggest they would be lower ranked it means 125 lobbies are affected.
So what this can do is affect where they were at higher ranks and also for survivors moving over where they go so longer matchmaking at the lower ranks for killer. It's probably why they made the matchmaking change to elevate the issue for high ranks anyway lower ranks just need to now match off of ranks 20-11 to try and help imo.
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This rank matchup is literally every game for me on PS4, and yes this was a 4-man SWF group toying with me (I can't remember the last game against solo survivors):
There is 100% a shortage of killers, hence why survivor queue times at all ranks are long and killer queue times, after rank 16, are always instant. All day long even outside of peak times this is the case. I don't understand why you'd argue with that. It's not a MM bug it's just basic math, you need 1 killer for every 4 survivors and right now that isn't the case, hence survivors have to wait longer.
If it was a bug, there would also be killers queuing for a long time. But there aren't.
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Your point was it was due to people playing survivor as it was the strongest role.
The devs have stated their is a bug but no shortage like the last time there a queue issue happened.
I also stated why its logical if there is a problem with roles it may with the issue arrising around the same time as the rift that does make others play another role.
The player base is the same so that seems more logical than the speculation that its due to one side being stronger.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on1 -
I'm a Xbox player and Killer main. The last rank resets I was a 12 green and every game I played since has been red ranks and purples. I just recently got up to rank 5 and now All I get is red rank 1s 2s 3s with SWF . Red rank survivors are salty people and I get nothing but hate message.
I had to push through many games trying to keep my cool and not go insane. I don't like to complain but I can understand why many Killers just quit the game.
I played 5 games in a row with SWF with keys and gen the rushing.I stopped using ruin because it useless against red ranks who just gen tap. I get into one chase just for 2 gens to go off right now away. Some games I had to play dirty so I wouldn't getting 4 maned hatched.That a sucking feeling as a killer.
I don't mind SWF but they just need to be more respectful and not so toxic. Maybe there would be more killers on console. I watch mixer and notice most of the xbox streamers are survivors mains.I think we only like killer mains that stream on mixer. Correct me if I'm wrong.That kinda shows the picture on how many Killers play on Xbox.
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I agree that on console 3-4 SWF is a lot more common than PC. Just last night I kept getting annoyed because I'm trying to play the Oni who is terrible on console and I'm only rank 10 currently. But every team I went against was a rank 2 SWF group. Even had one group where there were 3 rank 2s and a rank 16. I just think the issue is that the devs don't see console as a higher priority compared to PC. They probably see that 3-4 man SWF isn't as common on PC and decide not to do anything because the majority of their playerbase is on PC.
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I counted. I played 12 games today. All 12, no exception were against a 3-4 man SWF group and all 12 were against much better ranks than I was.
This is a serious problem on console. Of course nobody wants to play killer like this:
These games are the norm. Sometimes there's one guy with a lower rank in there but this is what it is. I never go up against a full green rank SWF team at my level, it's always this #########. And these people know what they're doing, they know every loop and pallet on every map while I only started playing a month ago.
Why should I still play killer? Why play at all? Something needs to be done about this or their game is going to die on console. There is already a shortage of killers because only a masochist will keep doing this for extended periods of time.
For PC players, you need to understand that survivors on console are just about as strong as they are on PC, but killers are much weaker due to the use of a controller and framerate issues. To make matters worse, you face SWF 90% of the time. Again, percentage not exaggerated.
I will create a thread about this problem in the feedback forum, maybe someone will listen.
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I counted today, played 13 matches, all 13 were against 3-4 man SWF and all 13 were against survivors with a much better rank. This right here is the norm for killers on console:
90% of all games are against SWF, again, percentage is not an exaggeration. In my 13 games today I have never been up against a green rank team, only reds and purples. I've only been playing for a month while these guys know every loop and pallet etc. It's not fun. In fact, it makes me want to stop playing. That's a problem.
From what I understood the killer MM is not as bad on PC as it is on console. And for you PC players, just to be clear: survivors on console are roughly on par with survivors on PC, whereas killers on console are gimped due to the controller. Imagine playing killer on PC in the red ranks.. with a controller. That's essentially the difficulty level.
No wonder there's such an extreme shortage of killers on console, why would anyone want this? Any new killer mains buying the game are immediately scared off by this crap or start playing survivor. I don't care if my queue times go up, put me up against people of my skill level and not much better ranked players every. single. time.
Something needs to be done or the game will die on consoles, due to a lack of killers. It's already dying, survivor queue times are very long. I truly feel that PC players don't realize just how bad the situation is for killers on console. I will create a post in the feedback forum as well, hopefully a dev will read it and respond.
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OP you're exactly right. I'm in purple ranks on console with zero desire to be in red ranks but almost all my lobbies have at least 2 red ranks and the majority of obvious SWF will have 3-4 at any given time. I'm over here on Xbox wondering if I'm the only killer even close to red ranks because it's consistent. Yeah I can get matches in less than a minute but when almost all of them have try hard, red ranks SWF with a gallon of sweat on top I'd rather wait 30 minutes to play an actual casual game with that same consistency.
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I’m a Rank 13 killer. I used to be Rank 7-5 and I hated gonna against purple and red ranks survivor because the majority of them are in SWF tryhards. I DeRank on purpose to avoid that, but it doesn’t matter because as a Rank 13 killer I still get a full red rank SWF or A green Rank survivor and full red and purple Rank SWF squad very occasionally. I play without Ruin so what happened is the skilled player from the group will come first to me or be found first and that survivor will be the only survivor I will find the entire game while the other 3 survivors are all on separate gens “Gen rushing” and by the time I get my first down 1 or 2 gens are left :/
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You're preaching to the choir my man. Survivors mains plug their ears and go la la la "We've been nerfed too!" As if their nerfs are even remotely comparable to nerfs killers get.
The devs care more about the survivor experience than the killer experience. All one needs to do is look at the state of killers when the game launched to realise that
Why would people select killer when there's such a disparaging difference between how good a survivor has to be to survive vs how good a killer has to be just to get a 2k or better. Just ignore the fact that a killer CAN get a 4k or 2k
A killer is required to be SOOO much better to get his kills than a survivor ever has to be to escape.
Consoles there significantly more SWF teams because of the fact that we have the party system, theres no need to make sure they have anythinf installed like discord, ventrilo, teamspeak etc. And it's literally like 3 button presses to invite them into your chat. Anyone who thinks there's not more SWF on console PROBABLY doesn't understand how much easier it is party up on console
Furthermore the game absolutely should be balanced around the SWF. It's an asymetrical game the fact the people even have to ask this is baffling to me. Imagine if people were asking if evolve should have been balanced around individual teams mates as hunters rather than the team as a whole
No the chase is NOT a 1v1 the chase is still a 1v4 because you're goal as a killer to end that chase as fast as possible because every second you are in a chase is a second someone is doing a gen. So while you might be chasing ONE survivor you're still racing to end that chase while every other survivor is doing gens
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the game is already balanced to swf thats why you cant win games as a random thats the reality an thats why i dont play this game anymore and my frends
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I know a lot of the top red rank survivors on Xbox and I can tell you we don't gen tap, we can just do great skill checks. I've literally seen like 2 survivors gen tapping at red/purple ranks in the past 3 months, as either survivor or killer. Gen tapping is slow. If you see gens pop at normalish speeds I guarantee it's just because we can do gens through Ruin.
Also you don't see as many killers streaming on Mixer because stream sniping is a real thing. I have a friend that streams regularly at rank 1 and he gets sniped at least once a session. We know because most people's Mixer is the same as their Xbox GT and you see them show up in the chatters list before the game starts.
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Having the game balanced around SWF is not balance at all, which is why this purported road map's goal is to somewhere down the line buff killers up to be viable. Of course solo survivors are still higher on the totem pole so we'll see where this lip service goes. But while these changes are going on, apparently there are less and less people willing to put up with the matchmaking and survivor catering on console. Hopefully, they'll have killer players left on console when that time comes but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Looking at this thread I notice the age difference between pc killers and console killers.
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Looking at this post I notice the lack of any useful input.
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Again asymetrical, saying balancing around swf is not balance at all is pretty ridiculous. Asymetrical means you are SUPPOSED to be playing as a team against the killer balancing around the SWF experience is the most logical thing to do.
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Sorry just something I noticed for the first time. Let me guess, you're here to complain about swf? If so, why?
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My only complaint is that the game should be balanced around the SWF not the solo player. It's an asymetrical game a 4 v 1. Balancing around the solo experience would be the equivalent of making all the hunters in evolve able to single handedly take on the monster. Not a good design for am asymetrical game
But nice assumption I guess.
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This would be awesome if solo players had the same info as swf. Would also be cool if they fixed the maps but that's probably gonna take a year or two.
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Yeah I don't have much hope for map reworks or much needed balance issues in the game. Especially since I believe they stated they don't want to balance the game around SWF and just want to bring solos up to SWF strength (similar but not the same)
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Asymmetrical does not mean not address longstanding balance issues. You can have 4 v 1, 5 v 1, or 50 v 1. If that one is consistently handicapped, then you'll just have a bunch of people waiting in lobbies sitting on their hands and then crying when people use every method to secure a kill because issues that surround the complaints aren't adequately addressed.
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Console DBD needs to be balanced in a different way than PC DBD.
I dare any red rank PC killer to use a controller instead of a mouse/keyboard, see how well you do in the red ranks. That's basically the situation for console killers.
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I'm a killer main playing the PC version of dbd and I can say that your problem exists in our lobbies too,in a way. Killers have 10 minute wait queue in all ranks and survivor's queue times are usually 3 seconds. Tho I can safely say that I don't see much of swf in the low ranks (I'm new at the game and I start to understand it). In the high ranks swf groups are really common and I can say that this is an issue.
I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I believe that the game should reward killers that are faced against swf groups, like giving them extra bps because, as you said , going against friends that can communicate can make the killer DC or just give up. I also believe it should be some sort of way to show the killer what they are going to deal with, like their ranks or just the information that they are swf
I might be a new player, but I've been against countless swf groups and I can admit I didn't have fun at all. I believe that rewarding killers for not dcing when they go against swf will be a healthy start, and probably have as a result less DC's.
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Thing is, console are 90% SWF groups and because killers are so gimped and people don't want to play them, survivor queue times are long and killer queue times are instant, but killers are consistently matched against better players.
PC VS Console:
Console survivor = 90% as good as PC survivor with KB/mouse.
Console killer = only 50% as good as PC killer with KB/mouse
Killer on console is much weaker than killer on pc, VS survivor. That's why there are so few killer mains.
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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/115427/urgent-devs-please-respond-console-dbd-suffers-from-major-issues-regarding-killer-vs-survivor#latest
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It's a matchmaking issue. Killer isn't that difficult on console if you know what you're doing imo. I walk out of so many games with a 3k-4k. Usually when I get a 1k-2k, it's due to terrible lag, me just making many mistakes, or getting bad luck in general. I find that on console the game is pretty enjoyable overall as a killer.
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I love playing killer but I just CANNOT play it for more than a couple sessions before switching back to survivor because it’s just so DRAINING on ps4. Every single time I play killer, I’m matched with toxic squads well above my 16 rank and every single time they spam notifications specifically to get on my nerves.
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Why is it a matchmaking issue?
Lack of killers in their own rank, so red and purple survivors get matched with green killers.
I repeat: Lack. Of. Killers. !!!
Why?
Because playing killer against SWF who know what they are doing, on console, is hopeless. And it's SWF 90% of the time on console, again, this is very different from PC matchmaking. Solo survivors in purple/red ranks are a rare sight on console and it's like nobody seems to realize this.
I deranked to 15 and finally have enjoyable, evenly matched matches again. Against rank 8-12 survivors.
No killers, no games for anyone. This issue needs to be addressed.
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Because everytime there is a lack of games it has always been a matchmaking issue. Before this update, survivors had the better queue times but killers had terrible queues. Was it because of a lack of survivors? No. It's the terrible matchmaking.
It's a back and fourth issue. One update its killers, the next its survivors and so forth. Killer is not as bad as solo queue.
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What platform do you play on?
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the past year on PS4 it has always been like this: instant queues for killers, 5 to 15 minutes as survivor (with a lot of lobby dodging by the killer, so add again 5-15 minutes every time..) - that's at red ranks both sides by the way. Right now I basically play only killer because of this.
A year and a half ago instead I remember I had a lot of trouble finding matches as killer, and when I did I was almost invariably against Japanese people (I'm in South Europe) O_O.
In any case, just let us see stats with the average number of survivors and killers at every rank divided by geographical area and we'll finally understand where the truth stands: if the ratio is close to 4:1, or even lower, then there's definitely a bug, but then again, what are they waiting for to fix it?
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Ps4.
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I'm fairly certain they have already addressed the issue to be a bug that they are currently fixing.
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They said there is a bug in matchmaking, but they didn't say how much it actually affects the queue times.
If the bug adds 1 or even 2 minutes in queues that last 10 minutes anyway, is the bug really the problem?
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as a killer i find lobby on pc in 5 seconds wich allows me to dodge as much as i want to dodging all the ######### keys i see in 8 out of 10 lobbys. on pc at least in south america everyone runs keys. is always a toxic swf with a key.
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Survivor queues were instant for me up until this chapter. Like I said, the queues switch back and forth. Some patches its killer queues, others its survivor queues. I remember at the GhostFace patch killer queues were awful.
It isn't a lack of any side, it's just the matchmaking itself.
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That's not what everyone else seems to have experienced on PS4. It also makes no sense. The MM struggles because it can't make proper matches withing the intended rank range (which is already too wide, huge difference between rank 11 and rank 5.. Especially if the entire team is rank 5 SWF).
Please explain what this "bug" is and how it works. Why can't you just admit there is a lack of killers below rank 16? When I play survivor, both solo and SWF, queue times are often 5-15 mins and I often get matched with poor ranked killers while my teammates are red/purple.
The MM is showing symptoms of a dwindling player base, or better, a dwindling killer base.
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