Other than Ruin, are any hexes “strong enough?”
Obviously Ruin has a huge impact right from the start of the game, risk vs reward may not be the best because of how random but it can’t be a permanent effect especially at low ranks.
NOED is strong once active too so definitely warrants a totem
Which if the rest really warrant being a totem though?
Devour hope is huge, but it takes at least 3 hooks to get one shots and 5 to get Mori so you work for it.
Same with Third seal although you don’t work too hard it’s just a hit, and the effect is strong but is it THAT STRONG?
Lullaby is kind of fun but I think it is the one that really shouldn’t be a hex just a game long effect
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They all are imo.
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Devour Hope is really well balanced. Its effects from 3 onwards are obscenely strong and force the whole team into totem hunting mode which halts the game, and played right can lead to a really fast surprise mori.
Third Seal is arguably not. Blindness is highly overrated by the devs and most players won't even notice the effect except in cases of downed survivors. The only reason it's ok as a hex is because if it were a timed debuff it would be pathetic, and an everlasting debuff is just bad for the game, unless it were harder to apply.
Lullaby could not be a game-long effect. Have you seen anything below like rank 10 when that stacks up? It's just a cacophony of failed skill checks and people too scared to touch a gen. They also can't heal each other and it's just a free win if they can't find the totem. As it is it's very difficult to use against decent players as it never stacks up and they can usually play through it, but it would certainly not be balanced as a non-hex.
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I see you haven't been introduced to Huntress Lullaby. Outside of Doctor it's literally one of the worst perks. If the notification didn't pop up immediately ot would be good.
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I hate hex perks in general. I get high risk high reward, but outside of brown and yellow ranks it's all risk no reward.
Make the perks a little weaker and remove the hex part.
Ruin - remove great skill checks
Lullaby - game long 3rd level or no noise notification for 60 seconds after being unhooked. I prefer the first one
3rd seal - no aura when on hook
Haunted ground - Survivors are exposed when within a certain range of dull totem. Most of which will spawn near generators
Devour hope - (my favorite perk) 2 hooks - mangled on hit, 4 hooks - aura blind when injured, 6 hooks - oblivious when injured, 8 hooks, mori when on death hook (not set in stone just ideas)
Thrill of the hunt - remove scratch marks get 100% more blood points at and of game
I would just prefer weaker perks that last all game or at last more than 20 seconds
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I am not sure I'd go with the specific ideas you suggested, but I am in favor of re-balancing all Hex perks in exchange for making them not tied to totems anymore.
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Third seal and huntress lullaby need a buff imo.
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Huntress Lullaby definitely needs a buff.
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Oh wow I really like the Devour idea.
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I would argue that at least 4 of the 7 hex perks - Ruin, NOED, Devour Hope and Haunted Ground are "strong enough" as they are.
I'm personally a fan of Huntress Lullaby, but I can understand why many people find it underwhelming and wouldn't be against seeing it get a bit of a buff. Third Seal and Thrill of the Hunt are definitely not powerful enough to justify the risk of being hex perks.
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haunted grounds may be worth to run maybe. other than that you have noed.
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Some Totems are too strong that they destroy the integrity of the game for weaker players(Ruin), while others are balanced (Devour Hope), and the rest are garbage tier (Third Seal).
my suggested fixes staying as hex totems:
Ruin: Permanent Doctor tier 3 style skillchecks (larger Great Skillcheck area) with no boost to progress. Toolboxes and Perks have no affect on Repair Speed, and increase the penalty of multiple Survivors working on the same generator Slightly/Moderately/Considerably (%1/2/3 per additional Survivor)
I feel this would be balanced, because brown rank Survivors can still hit the Skill Checks, but allows for Ruin to affect the game even against red ranks/Sweaty SWF until broken.
Devour Hope: Fine as it is.
Lullaby: Stays hidden. Each stack increases skill check trigger odds. At 3 stacks, shows up as active, and skill checks no longer trigger sound. At 6 stacks, the totem breaks itself, remains active, and causes Survivors working on Generators to constantly hear a Huntress Lullaby, along with the terror radius as if on the edge.
This allows Lullaby to stay hidden since it doesn’t reveal itself until it’s ready to screw you over silently, and if it ever gets to 6 stacks, it punishes Survivors for not doing anything about it.
Third Seal: Blindness and Oblivious. Reveals the Totems location.
Blindness is kinda ######### except in certain situations. Adding Oblivious to it makes the perk potentially extremely scary. Imagine being chased by any non stealth killer, and you just lose track of them because of this. Depending on skill level, this perk can screw you over. Perhaps it doesn’t have to reveal the Totems location, but I feel this balances out the fact that the Survivor becomes oblivious and aura blind.
Haunted Ground: (only suggesting this because I feel this is a much more fair version that’d also make for some hilarious moments.) Once broken, auras of all Survivors other than the totem breaker are revealed for 30/35/40 seconds. The person who broke the Totem is exposed until their next Hook. Spawns two totems. Both can trigger. Breaking 1 doesn’t stop the other from revealing you.
I feel the Haunted Grounds is much more fun this way. It gives the Killer the choice of deciding what’s the best course of action saying they can see what the others who didn’t break the totem are doing, and they have a general idea of where the exposed individual is. This way, they can apply pressure to generators, or tunnel the exposed Survivor.
NOED: Like I’ve said before, this and Adrenaline go hand in hand, and both need to be nerfed or buffed together. Honestly, NOED shouldn’t be a totem and should go back to 2 minute timer days. I play IV, and Detention (basically NOED) works the same way, and nobody complains. People just accept it for what it is, a 2 minute timer of “stealth this <insert swear word here>.”
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Devour is insane if it spawns in a good location. Haunted grounds is also very troll. I always find it hilarious to be contesting a totem with a survivor for a minute or so just for them to pop the haunted grounds when I leave.
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Opinion time! Yay!
Hex: Devour Hope
Yes, but a big caviat is still the Totem spawns.
I actually find most of them to be fine nowadays, but there are still some insane spots today which baffle me, like the Totem just out in the open on Crotus Prenn Asylum.
People also still report that they can't even get to their Totem in time while they immediately went for it.
Which shouldn't be part of the risk btw, the risk should be that you fail to defend it, not that you can't immediately get to it in time.
As for the Perk itself, lol: +5% movement for 10 seconds, not even a bonus, it'll get you a hit in a loop maybe once in a blue moon.
It has 2 big strengths, one is the sudden reveal of its existence, usually announced with the 1-hit bonus.
Its 2nd strength is the fear of its development, let it go on for too long and the Killer will start deleting you.
Not even Ebony Memento Mori + Hex: No One Escapes Death can be as strong as this Perk: A Killer could ignore you for the first 5 Tokens, and then they could suddenly 1-hit you and kill you just like that.
But funny enough, i never ever get any complaints about me using this Perk.
So sometimes it'll get cleansed early, sometimes it won't.
Which is why i'd recommend to equip Perks that do well with, but more importantly, well without Devour Hope.
Take Barbecue & Chili for example: Hooked someone? Great, here's your next target so you immediately know where to go and be more 24 meters away from the Hook.
Make Your Choice also oddly pairs well: Go away, have them trigger MYC AND give you a Token on DH, get the 1-hit on the unhooker, hook them, repeat, and you'll either get DH's permanent 1-hits, or you can still use MYC afterwards.
I think i'll stop there, i always fanboy over Devour Hope.
I don't even look at it as a good or bad Perk, i just thoroughly love to use it.
Btw, especially stealth Killers should love the 1-hit bonus: Coming up to someone and just completely denying a chase is huge and, to me, oddly satisfying.
Hex: Haunted Ground
Sorta, i find other 1-hit Perks often better, like Make Your Choice, gives me more control.
I always dislike it when i'm in a chase with an Injured Survivor and then someone pops it.
It can also be a great immediate down, hence why my judgment is "sorta".
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
No, and buffing it might create problems with other Skill Check Perks & Doccy.
Hex: No One Escapes Death
Yes, though i generally dislike late-game Perks.
Hex: The Third Seal
No, but it's not the Perk's fault, it's Blindness which just sucks.
And not because it's weak but because of how it works.
Removing Auras definitely isn't a small thing, you're disabling 15 Perks, but it often seems to matter little to the experienced Survivor.
The worst it can do nowadays is probably prevent the buffed Kindred, which is a big deal, but still, the experienced Survivor will know what to do.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
Not on its own, literally meant for Hex Perk builds.
The reason that Ruin is this popular is partially because it's immediate, and it affects progression, which can go real fast with the right Survivors and the wrong Killer.
I'm not saying that, for example, Dying Light & Thanatophobia suck in comparison, but one thing that they aren't is immediate, and i know a lot of people can agree that a good early game is pretty important.
You equip Ruin, and boom: Everyone is affected immediately.
Opinion time's over!
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I think lullaby is the only weak one
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Bruv haunted grounds is super effective (on certain builds) usually best with other hex perks like ruin or devour. It's a amazing I. Devour tho because they either get exposed right away and they don't go for devour or they get devour then go for ruin it's just really good
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I don’t know devour hope is pretty fun especially with 5 tokens lol
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I use thrill devour furtive chase bbq
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The reason why they are hexes (hexs?) Is because they are powerful. That is why they can be cleansed.
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Huntress Lullaby needs a QoL buff. It should not display until 1 stack is in play.
Maybe increase the BP bonus on Thrill since you lose part of the bonus when a totem is destroyed.
Third Seal can be quite powerful if stacked on all survivors. Problem is the totem is usually gone by that point, so maybe it could use a change to make it ramp up more quickly.
Other than that they're relatively balanced, but still entirely spawn dependent so still a dice roll at the end of the day.
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I use it on Trapper bow and then. It works nicely. At red ranks it is about like ruin. It might slow things down a lil bit, but not for long.
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Way to ignore the question... unless you’re of the opinion blindness does deserve a totem
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Not very balanced when running thrill devour haunted and ruin. Not fun when they go straight to the totem even if it means dropping a downed or leaving a chase
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Huntress Lullaby was really strong when they didn’t tell you after the first skill check of the game that it’s in play. It shouldn’t show up until you fail a skillcheck or the killer gets a first stack.
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Corrupt Intervention is 100% better for Trapper honestly. It's got a guaranteed set up time and the ability to lock down gens at a later end of the game. Then again Trapper is a side project for me. I prefer Huntress and Pig.
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Third Seal is low key pretty strong. Once you get 4 stacks you can start slugging and snowball really hard. The catch is obviously it is a totem. If it weren't a totem and time based instead I would say it could potentially be meta.
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lullaby is the weakest but only cause by the first skillcheck people know it exists BEFORE IT EVEN DOES SOMETHING GENIUS can we remove the notification till a person gets hooked pls
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Haunted Grounds and Devour Hope are really the only other ones worth running, but they're less likely to be as effective as Ruin. In my experience, Devour Hope is just a "win harder" perk, and Haunted Grounds is sometimes a free down. Neither of them seem good, but they at least come into play sometimes.
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Implying ruin is good. Me and every other green rank and above just nail the skill checks. Silly killer mains thinking their brown rank strats actually are viable at higher ranks. Try corrupt intervention. Make the survivors come to you and kill them without them even starting a gen let alone rushing one.
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All hexes are strong, its that fact that BHVR lets everyone and there mother know when you touch a gen is what makes it weak.
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NOED and Haunted Ground are fine, the rest require too much upkeep and optimism to start generating worthwhile effects. Considering that Hex totems can spawn in plain sight, it makes the rest too risky to use.
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NOED and Ruin are the only good Hex perks. Though, NOED is only good if you run it on a killer that can M1 survivors easily. The main reason why most Hex perks are bad is that most of them take too long to become impactful and good survivors do not actively look for hex totems. They just randomly stumble upon them and cleanse it, so the extra time you gain from it is mostly the totem cleansing time. The reason why Hex Ruin is not bad is it has immediate impact from the start of the game unlike the other Hex perks. Regarding why some specific perks are mediocre,
Devour Hope: you must be at least 24 m away from the hook. This is bad for 3 genning
Hex Haunted Ground: it gives you 1 survivor kill usually
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Haunted ground gives you that rare game where you manage two insta downs early for momentum and you think it’s OP then there’s game it gets triggered when you’re carrying someone else and you don’t get anything.
i agree devour hope is win more, by the time you activate the mori part the game is over you’re just getting The animations
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Sir that is in fact, not ignoring the question, as the question is are hexes (hexs?) Strong enough, and I answered in the most simplistic way possible to avoid going into in-depth explanation of my thinking.
And blindness is strong, unable to see auras of hooked, downed, or, any auras at all, to think of it.
Edited several times because Grammer did not work
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No, you don’t. Even at rank 1/2 games people get sparks and probably half of the solo players I encountered won’t do gens til ruin is gone...
If you hit the greats that’s good, but don’t claim everyone does. If everyone did killers really would stop running it but they don’t and this post won’t convince them to
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Devour Hope became useless once they added this big notification of "HEY THIS GUY HAS DEVOUR HOPE, GO FIND THE TOTEM". Please hold the hand of the survivors more. All hexes outside of Haunted are mostly useless because of the immediate alert to it. They even say when Thrill of the Hunt is in play.. why? Heaven forbid survivors have to engage their brain..
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I still remember being against the idea of adding the indicator for the exposed status at all (was the first status indicated). At the time, only Myers EW3, NOED, and DH could expose people. I thought it was a really good way to encourage good game sense. Scary Halloween theme? Better not let Myers hit you. End of the game and someone was oneshot? NOED is a thing, be aware. Otherwise, go find the DH totem. Encouraged intelligent play. Then they added the indicator which didn’t say what caused it, but it still felt too easy. Then they added the explanation text so you knew why you were exposed and made it even easier to know what you were looking at. And then they added the little screen shake effect JUST in case you missed the other tells. Felt weird and out of place and still does. Let the survivor guess and figure out why people are being oneshot. Lets the intelligent ones survive just fine, and the others can figure it out eventually.
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Lullaby with all 5 stacks is very powerful. The issue is getting those stacks early enough to actually make a difference in the gamr.
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Corrupt Intervention is ok, but I've found that it can backfire too. If the best side of the map is the one you start on, it will push the survivors to you before you can set the stage.
Not a bad perk on Trapper, but not my favorite.
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Those are all really terrible ideas. None of them benefits the killer over the survivors, and most wouldn't even be usable in any meaningful way. First of all, if you're relying on hex perks to help slow the game down, then you need at least perk or power that directly supports using the hexes you're taking in. Second, the idea of them being hexes was always ment to slow progress by adding a second objective.
In all honesty, I would like to see a new hex/perk that causes obliviousness when interacting with totems or gens in general. In addition, I think TOTH should cause the exposed/exhausted status effects for 10, 20, or 30 seconds after successfully cleansing any totem to the survivor that did so. THAT would balance the risk/reward factor of using hexes. As it stands, TOTH is a nice way to protect totems, to the extent that it lets you know when one is being cleansed, but I think adding in a camouflage hex/perk that makes all totems appear dull and/or considerably darkens their appearance while active would increase the usefulness of all hexes.
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See, I've found if you can get the stacks, Hex: lullaby can grind the game to a halt. But this is mostly around green ranks so.
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I can hit the skill checks. You acknowledged that.
Then this. "This post wont convince them too" yes i can hit skill checks yet i want them to stop ysing ruin? Are you seriously implying i dont want a killer wasting a perk slot? Are you even listening to whats being said?
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Huntress' Lullaby and TOTH are not strong enough to warrant being hexes.
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I think they are all strong enough. Devour hope can be devastating. It cant get any stronger eithout being to strong. Third seals effect is probably not worth it considering the risk of it being destroyed vs the effect you get but obviously its effect is too powerful to be a regular perk so it has to be a totem. Same for lullaby.
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I acknowledged you can not Ruin checks, but your claim was that EVERYONE above green ranks hits them... that is flat out laughable. As a solo player at least 2 of my teammates struggle with ruin to the point of looking for it before doing gens.
If you’re doing misty SWF sure your team doesn’t care about ruin. But if you’re a solo survivor, even if you hit every single check, ruin is slowing 2-3 of your teammates down and your team would be better off if killers stopped using it.
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I would say ruin, noed, devour, thrill and haunted ground are all pretty good
Lullaby, third seal need something cause right now they are kinda meh
Third seal should also add the oblivious status cause oblibious is probably the most fun status effect to give in the game
Lullaby should reach max stacks after 3 tokens tbh, it would also be nice if the bonus regression from failed skillchecks stayed after the hex was destroyed
I think it would also be good if hex perks got the noed treatment, as in they aren't on the map untill in effect and then a dull totem becomes a hex totem
For ruin when a skillcheck is created, for thrill when a totem is touched, for devour,third seal, lullaby when they gain tokens and haunted ground after a certain time
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Devour Hope can get a kill or two..
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Third Seal is godly... when you've got it going.
But ever since they made hex perks auto-alert the survivors they're really crappy. :\
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