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Why was Doc reworked before Trapper?

Rivyn
Rivyn Member Posts: 3,033

Is it because survivors complained?

Seriously, though, why? He's not THAT weak, at least compared to older killers. Wraith, Trapper, and Clown, for instance, could all use a pick me up, yet they've been in the dust bin for years. Is it simply because survivors are okay with their mediocrity, and devs are fine with that? Do they devs simply have no idea what to do, or not care?

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Comments

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    He's not being reworked because he's weak, otherwise it would be a buff, not a rework. He's being reworked because the devs are prioritising fun over balance, and Doctor, more than most killers, has a reputation for being frustrating and unfun both to play as and against.

  • GhostDog
    GhostDog Member Posts: 5

    They already reworked trapper's and wraith's addons a while back. Trapper does need a little bit more love, though. Personally, I think Clown needs a full Freddy level rework, with a different power. His current power is uninspired, boring to use, boring to face, and the vision impairment is annoying and gives people headaches. He'll get his turn eventually. Clown might even be fine as he is if they rework all the maps.

    Doctor, like Clown, just isn't fun to go against. His stance switching mechanic is outdated so they're getting rid of it. His passive madness static field sucked to go against, so he'll instead have an active ability. His addons had unfun things, so they added... reverse skill checks instead of exhaustion (wait, what? who thought that was a fun idea?). Fun factor seems to be why they picked Doctor, rather than viability. It remains to be seen if Doctor's rework will make him any more fun to go against or not. I have my doubts since madness isn't fun at a core level, it's just annoying.

  • Rivyn
    Rivyn Member Posts: 3,033
    edited January 2020

    Ironic, considering how unfun their matchmaking blunder currently is. Or how unfun they made Nurse with the cooldown.

    I'm not saying Doc shouldn't be changed, I'm just annoyed that there are killers in worse spots that are allowed to stew in low ranks simply because the devs do nothing about it.

  • Colton147
    Colton147 Member Posts: 523
    edited January 2020

    Minority of Killer mains are pretty much a disgrace and prefer to be extremely toxic; harassing people.


    There are a few killer mains I've seen on this very forum that prefers to complain and harass people for disagreeing with them.

    Post edited by Colton147 on
  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 23,147

    Clown and Legion need a full on Freddy rework.

    Trapper needs his base traps to be a teensy bit darker and he needs to start with all of his traps.

    Doc is getting reworked to make him more fun to play against, it remains to be seen if this is a buff or a rework that leaves him just as useless as before. I doubt it will be a nerf, but ya know, Legion

  • DocFabron
    DocFabron Member Posts: 2,410

    I disagree with this. The MAJORITY of killers are rather chill. There's a few bad seeds out there but thats with any game.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 23,147

    That's just false.

    Most players in general are chill. There are a few bad eggs, but they certainly aren't a majority

  • Colton147
    Colton147 Member Posts: 523

    I have re-edited my post.


    Majority of my games I tend to have are toxic killers (very few chill), so I could have the worst luck.

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Honestly this is proper. Like you said weakness can be solved by direct buffs. Issues with fun get worked on the most however because fixing those kinds of issues requires the most work.

    Making something balanced is easy. Making something balanced, unique and sufficiently intuitive plus a few other factors is not.

  • The_Second_Coming
    The_Second_Coming Member Posts: 1,110

    All would be a bit much. I would say add his largest trap bag to his base kit. That's all a good trapper should need.

  • SunderMun
    SunderMun Member Posts: 2,789
    edited January 2020

    Because Trapper is a good killer, albeit map dependent. Doctor is just bad.


    That said, I would like to see Trapper bag become basekit.

  • BloodMoneyMerc
    BloodMoneyMerc Member Posts: 477

    @The_Second_Coming the only thing there is that his bag add-ons would then serve too little of a purpose. I also wouldn't mind a Huntress type situation where he gets traps from lockers or somewhere less out of the way. Instead of unlimited traps, he would then just be hardcapped at a specific number, & his bag add-ons would still function the same. He could then have some addon reworks that increase the number of traps he gets hard capped at on a map.

  • The_Second_Coming
    The_Second_Coming Member Posts: 1,110

    His bag addons would then add to the already raised trap count. They would still serve a purpose. A Trapper with slightly less time required to gather traps is a scary thing.

  • Majora
    Majora Member Posts: 207

    Doctor is so bad but theyr taking his grabs away and less overall madness on huge cooldown.


    I hope this doesn't make doctor even worse.

    I really hope they find way to keep his grabs as he was the grab master

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    I say it now and i will say it again until some frustrated Trapper mains will stop with this:

    If Trapper starts with all his traps, he will be overpowered, and not just a little bit.

    You guys often forget how much this would interrupt the ballance of him.

    The reason they change the Doctor instead of Trapper is super simple. The Trapper is the most played killer by far, has a good winrate and is overall the most enduring killer. Why would you wanna risk that?

  • Elvenmonk
    Elvenmonk Member Posts: 367

    He isn't even fun as a killer.


    Also trapper is perfectly fine if you know how to mind game and set up traps. But the bag is mandatory

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,389

    Because Trapper could be greatly improved by simple changes like letting him start with more traps, carry more traps as base, make it take longer to disarm traps and that sort of thing. His traps work but it can be cumbersome and time consuming to set them up, he really doesn't need anything resembling a full rework.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
    edited January 2020

    I think Clown should have various types of bottle for different effects that able to change at his will. Still have total of 5(?) bottles though.

    About Trapper? Just Brown bag add on will be just enough for him. A single Brown bag addon, I have better time to dominate survivors than double addon Extend disarm time, double addon setup faster

  • Kongtwenty12
    Kongtwenty12 Member Posts: 140

    So I assume you love having to play against a killer with little to no counter play? Out of all the killers doc is definitely the one that scares off the most new players because the first few times they play against him they get absolutely destroyed since there is nothing you can do about his power. He's not fun to play against and I think with his rework he actually will be

  • Kongtwenty12
    Kongtwenty12 Member Posts: 140

    Are you saying a killer power with no counter play is balanced?

  • djsponge10
    djsponge10 Member Posts: 349

    Because trapper doesn’t need a rework lol. I literally just played 5 games in a row 4 4K one 3k with hatch escape using his yellow bag add on and the yellow setting speed. And I’m rank 1. He’s fine the only thing I’d say is let him start with 2 and be allowed to carry 3. That’s really it. He’s a very balanced killer.

  • feechima
    feechima Member Posts: 941

    I doubt the fun factor from just the survivor side influenced his changes. He's not exactly played a lot, so on the occasion you do face him as a survivor he's actually a relief from Ghostface and legion who I find even more annoying. He's not at the top of the complaint list on the forums so it's curious why they are focusing on him other than because he rarely gets any use. Maybe he will be more user friendly and influence more to play him. We'll just have to wait and see.

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    I don't think I said anything of the sort. My comment about the devs prioritising fun over balance was in reference to their decision to rework Doctor, who is a fairly balanced killer already but not a lot of fun for survivors in particular, over someone much weaker who needs some balance adjustments, like the Trapper.

    But for the record, if you're talking about Doctor's current power, it definitely has counter play.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    Cause trapper is not that weak

    Hie biggest problem is he needs time to set up but once he does he's a monster

    How many matches i've seen vs trapper where 4 gens get done in 4 minutes and then suddenly someone going for a resque get's trapped and everything just snowballs out of control

    He's the master of snowballing and the stats will probably show that

    Also if the devs are planning to do something about genrushing i'd rather have them do that first before touching trapper as that is the only reason he is conciddert bad by most people

  • BodamEscapePlan
    BodamEscapePlan Member Posts: 75

    "...he needs time to set up but once he does, he's a monster."

    That's exactly it! I think Trapper players know by now that Corrupt Intervention is absolutely essential. You get a full two minutes to retrieve and set-up your traps and in that time, the survivors likely would've finished nearly 2 generators. I don't ever play without it.

  • OmegaXII
    OmegaXII Member Posts: 2,438

    Seriously, Doc has no counterplay!? Then which killer has counterplay?

    No offense, but why don't you tell new players to get good?

    If you balance the game around new players, then have fun playing lobby simulator as survivor

    And you're not seriously support devs to balance the game around rank 20, right?

  • Mellow7
    Mellow7 Member Posts: 793

    The devs literally said on their own live stream that the only reason doc was getting changed was because they want to make the game fun for survivors, and funny part was that you could tell the entire stream was scripted because they were reading answers from a paper instead of just giving us their proper thoughts on the questions.

  • Polychrome_Baku
    Polychrome_Baku Member Posts: 404

    Hide in lockers to reduce madness levels. Hit the shaky skill checks. Snap put of it if you're madness three. Don't be a boosted animal. Have more than two brain cells. Doc is an absolute joke. His base shock therapy range is trash, calm spirit deletes his ability to track with screams, and he only shines during a three gen strat or using the "impossible skillcheck doc" build. Every other killer outshines him.

    Every killer in the game has counter play. Inclusing nurse. I'm so sick of people using this lame ass phrase to reinforce their ######### opinions. Your profile picture is icing on the irony cake since a lot of people think the plague currently has "no counter play".

  • Kongtwenty12
    Kongtwenty12 Member Posts: 140

    Most killers have counterplay. For Myers and ghostface you break line of sight, for hag you crouch to avoid triggering traps, trapper you disarm or sabotage his traps, for billy/leatherface/oni/demogorgon you use the surrounding to see stop their weapons, ECT.

    But with the doctor you pretty much just have to take it. It is near impossible to never be in the killers terror radius for the entire match and once you have madness you can't get rid of it.

    Sure you can hide in lockers but the more time you spend in lockers less time you spend on gens.




    I'm sure a lot of people say plauge has no counterplay but this community does a lot of spewing garbage out if their mouths and I'm sure you would say I am too. I'm not saying doc is good and I agree that he is not fun to play against or as but I will never agree that a power where you just have to accept it with no real option is ballance

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    If you think you "just have to accept" Doctor's power and have no other options then you haven't learned how to play against him properly. He's no more uncounterable than Plague, or Pig, or Freddy, or Myers, or any other killer whose power forces you to do something other than your normal objectives if you don't want to be disadvantaged by it.

  • Huff
    Huff Member Posts: 1,480

    Fibijean is right in my opinion. Mostly. There isn't a ton you can do once you hit tier 2. The doc has various passive effects, or a crap ton if he has iridiscent king. Those things you can't do much about (other than snap out of it to lessen the effects and go back down to T2.) Beyond that though, it's like Plague. You'll be affected by the power but you still have plenty of choice to avoid the deadliest part of it. Just like Plague's corrupt purge being in the hands of the survivor, you can also choose to take away some of the Doc's effectiveness by not letting him abuse his shock active ability to screw you over at pallets. Beyond that he is just a M1 killer. That's where my opinion on the thread comes in.


    Both characters feel like they have older kits, but the difference is how they've aged. Trapper still fills a unique role in my opinion. He's a M1 killer mostly, but he has the traps that have an effect that no other killer has, and it's a tool that is still useful to this day. I could say similar things about Doc, but he feels a lot more underwhelming. He can create illusionary pallets, but Freddy can do the same thing, and more effectively if you ask me (with how survivors can actually interact with the pallet and they don't disappear when you get close.) He can prevent some loops with shocks, but other killers also do that more effectively. Even Trapper sometimes. On top of that, if you bring range alterations right now it requires you to know the timings and ranges well, because it switches up what situations you can stop survivors from vaulting. Even then, if you get a pallet you can potentially stop somebody at, you still have to mindgame correctly and hope that the survivor isn't going to get to vault anyway because dedicated servers screw your shock timing, or that they don't just ignore your shock and continue running around the loop, putting more distance between you.

    If you play League of Legends, you'll understand the comparison I make when I bring up Teemo or Anivia or Blitzcrank. All old champions, but have had relatively the same kits with little to no changes for years, because their kits just continue to fill their niche and don't need much help.


    tl;dr: I think the Trapper's power has aged much better than Doc's. That's not considering the fun factor either.