Ruin, Thoughts and Opinions
Comments
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I don't need ruin to win, but it makes it less stressful. Now, I'm just going to play survivor only... It's way less stressful.
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How do you kick a gen that's regressing?
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Ive got mixed feelings. On one end, its good to not rely on something that is a gamble. On another end... Seeing perks get completely buried by a nerf only serves to minimize build choices as well as alienate killer players that currently DO use it. Its unlikely that alot of people are gonna wanna queue up anymore when theyre currently stuck at red ranks and new rank reset would make it several months before they can get to a comfortable "non-ruin" lvl so they can get use to playing without it.
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good i dont use it
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Your logic is flawed. The entire concept of hex perks are "giant effect that forces survivor players to want to remove it". If it doesn't have impact and isn't extremely dangerous, why the ######### should it even be a hex perk? You don't make any sense.
And as far as popularity, perks should not be nerfed based on that. If that was the case, then adrenaline, BT, DS, and DH all need to be nerfed since they were used by 80% of the survivors I faced in my past games.
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Thats just it, you wouldnt possibly be able to ever kick a gen. Every gen that doesnt have a survivor working on it would already be regressing at twice the normal rate as soon as the survivor hops off it.
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Because then survivors would have to deviate from their meta builds. Duh.
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I can't wait to have every game end after 3-4 chases. Playing killer will be so fun and interactive on maps with 20 safe pallets and no way to "JUST PRESSURE GENS".
out of all the ways you could've addressed ruin, you left it as a Hex and removed the skill check penalty. laughable.
it should've been like Corrupt, guaranteed 3-4 mins then goes away.
time for a break i guess
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All due respect - if you guys are the same people who "played around with" the original Spirit Prayer Beads, and more than 2 blink original Nurse and thought those were good ideas...you don't give us a lot of reason to trust what you're saying.
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That is literally my question. Is it regressing normally (like a kick) or is it just a passive regression...these are questions that need answering. Because if it's passive, surge could combo well with it
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can you fix totem spawns if youre going to nerf ruin into the ground?
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Does it automatically apply regression?
If it does, isn't that a nerf to PGTW and Surge?
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I think it stinks and as I said in another thred the "Mr nice guy" act has to go when playing killer. Camping, tunneling when needed is ok now. I never did this before but without Ruin you need to play exactly how you need to play to win. Facecamping is just a bad and boring gameplan but semi camping and tunneling could be good to at least get one or two kills when you otherwise will have four t-baggers at the gate.
And I play survivor most times and I think this will be bad for all partys simply put. As survivor I want it to be harder to escape, not like now feeling "Ok escaped again..meh" and now it will be even more easy. This is not good at all.
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Holy god the changes are so much worse than I ever thought possible, I've sure the toxic survivor players are thrilled but how does anyone playing killer has confidence they care about us?
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As soon as a survivor leaves the gen, it regresses normally.
Because there's no such thing as passive regression.
Yes.
Yes. And the doctor one that I forgot the name
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They are extremely survivor biased, where have you been?
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From what Peanit has said, it is a passive regress. Meaning: A survivor is working on a gen, and then stops to go save someone on a hook. As soon as that survivor lets go of the gen, the gen itself will start regressing without being kicked. It is a passive regress, so you will not have to take the time to kick the gen.
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@Peanits honest question, do you guys even play the game?
Just trying to understand why a perk essentially required to succeed for most killers would be reworked in such a terrible way.
“it’s so strong end game!” - exactly why would this Ruin be different from current Ruin, which gets cleansed early most games? Oh is it because without Ruin, survivors will just gen rush and not look for totems? Oh maybe that’s why killers run Ruin in the first place?
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So, basically you can't have two gen regression perks unless it's ruin and thrilling Tremors. sigh there goes my idea of surge and ruin.
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You misunderstand me. I am with you on this, or rather starting to. I mean they nerfed some OP survivor stuff too, but not as much as they have been nerfing killers, even Doctor looks like he might be an overall nerf.
Like what is going on here, it's VERY clear what the issues were with ruin, you literally ignored the ONLY killer side issue with it, one that would not affect it's balancing either since you can address the numbers easier once the main problem is fixed...... Like if that doesn't show bias I don't know what does.
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They say this is meant to be a perk that's strong at late game, but let's compare it to our other late game hex. Devour Hope lets you instadown and mori survivors with enough stacks, while only notifying survivors of its existence once you reach 3 stacks and hit a survivor. Ruin meanwhile makes all generators regress at double speed while not being worked on, while also notifying survivors of its existence the moment they stop working on any generator right at the start of the match. Do these seem like they both stack up as viable options? The effect of Ruin is strong but not strong enough for the risk of having an immediately apparent Hex that only does something later on in the game.
This feels like another Surge situation where it's only sorta worthwhile when run with Surveillance.
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So, basically you can't use surge for extra regression unless someone is injured on the gen and you down them with an M1. So all they have to do is get off the gen, and surge doesn't count for it. Second question is do you even get brutality points for it..lol. I was hoping it would be a saving grace for surge to combo with it. But I suppose thrilling tremors is what you'll need.
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We frankly have zero reason to trust you guys on the balance, I've been playing survivor for a bit over 15 hours and I'd bet money I'm better at survivor. I'm the kind of player who has a ton of trouble with skillchecks and I don't even mind ruin. I can either work through it or bust the totem, after 1.1k hours of killer I mosy know where it can be. It's disturbing how dismissive you've all been of killer concerns, what happened?
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Surge still works if someone happens to be working on the gen... but yeah, pretty much.
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I play at red/purple ranks and have never used Ruin so. I don't want to sound rude to anyone, but being a good killer is more about relying on your own skills than perks. So if you truly cannot contend at higher ranks without ruin, maybe you don't belong there, I don't know.
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It will be of little use because people currently prefer to do "gens before friends" not forgetting the premades that will communicate so that the generator does not lower
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From a survivor stand point, I think this is a terrible change. I understand where the devs are coming from. But Ruin wasn't that big of a deal for survivors. Honestly if more killers just throw up their hands and say I'm done I wouldn't blame them.
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They keep making brutal nerfs to killers and a lot of people's "see how it plays out" attitude is grinding on me, the last what 5 times it's played out to be much worse than anyone expected and they just ignore any feedback that shows they made a mistake
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I'm not sure actually. It may cancel it out, or it may stack with it. The only way to know is by testing it on PTB tomorrow.
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I never used Ruin and learned to play without it, so it's a nerf to the players who depended on the perk, not killers. 👉👉
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Well yeah cause it isn't already hard enough. I don't know, what to say. Thanks i guess? Games will fly by just as they always do when killers do not use hex ruin.
I honestly do not quite understand the reasoning, like look the noob can not hit a skillcheck, oh that is totally unfair and we need to make it so he doesn't need to improve at all. Meanwhile you look at the nurse changes and think well yeah ok seems totally fair.
Seems to me devs do not understand why killer do equip ruin in the first place. I guess adressing the issue why people do equip it, would've been too hard so instead simply remove it from the game.
Oh and to the people that claim PGTW is better, you never played against good survivors. You can ofc state yeah ruin didn't stop them from doing the gen, that is correct. However it still slows down the gens whether they hit the skillcheck or not.
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It's annoying too because someone will make a good point, a dev will post a counter argument for their reasons for doing it, someone will reply with a better explanation as to why they are mistaken and elaborate- and the devs will just ignore it because they made a good point and keep doing their own thing.
I don't know if it's arrogance or what but they seem to think that the players don't know anything about the game they have thousands of hours in lol.
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I disagree, I see more often people stop gens to get people off of hooks. It's more beneficial to keep your teammates in the game.
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If I'm playing a low mobility killer such as Plague or Pig. I'm going to need ruin especially if I'm put into a larger map such as Mount Ormand or Cold wind farm.Sorry, but there's really no getting around maps like that.
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Also i forgot but even if we test and give feedback you devs will ignore our message anyway
Remember you ignore Nurse change and Balance Landing change?
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I got to rank 1 originally using OG Freddy and no ruin. Im not trying to have a dick measuring contest, just saying its likely to turn away a large percentage of the current killer population. Like the announcement said, 80% of red rank matches has ruin. If those ppl feel like they cant play the game anymore, that'll turn into a huge blow for matchmaking.
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the changes suck. old ruin sucked too because itd break in 30 seconds. please for the love of god just make gen speed a bit slower or maybe fix the totem spawns. or even better, fix the maps
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Survivor main here. This is a terrible change for a number of reasons. First, it does nothing to address the issue of random hex placement. As before, this perks is a lottery, only this time even without a good payoff - you will either get a hex totem placed in a good hidden location for a slight-to-moderate lategame benefit, or it will get cleansed two minutes in for a dud perk slot. Second, if I understand the mechanics intended, it breaks all regress-on-kick perks, making them useless, effectively being an anti-slowdown perk. Third, it actually does nothing to slow down gen times, actively encouraging survivors to gang up on gens and worsening killer's chase-to-gen ratio.
There are many much better alternative available to make ruin fun again. Just a few examples:
- Rework of general hex mechanic, making killer manually activate his hexes on a dull totem of his choosing. This will simulataneously limit all hex effectiveness in early game, making it more engaging for survs and less likely to dc out of frustration, and give killer more strategic freedom to choose good spots for his hexes for long-time effectiveness, while also punishing reckless killers who place hexes while at risk of being observed by survivors - the way this works with trapper and his beartraps.
- Rework of general hex meachanic, allowing hexes to respawn on random standing dull totems 60 seconds after they were cleansed, and optionally allowing cleansed dull totems to reform after 180 seconds. Combine with a very slight nerf to some more powerful hexes to balance it out.
And my favourite:
- While Hex: Ruin totem is standing all toolbox use on gens is blocked. Additionally, and even after Hex: Ruin has been cleansed, all generators passively regress at all time at 0.5 charges per any standing totem, with that doubling on kick.
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That is a good combo. I'll keep that in mind when I'm playing hag on coldwind farms and have to walk my slow a** to the other side of the map to move them off the gens only for another one to hop on as soon as I leave. Ruin is supposed to slow them down. If a survivor can't hit a great skill check that is their problem. They are supposed to be harder to hit anyways.
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Ruin should not have been changed until all maps were reduced in size. Killer Mains you have my sympathy.
Ruin was risk/reward.
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Please read this and respond as I'm genuinely curious: Do you guys play your own game at the higher ranks?
Ruin, while overused I agree, is essentially required in the early game due to the gen speeds going lightning fast. The pressure it helps killers build can buy them time to find survivors and starts making downs. Assuming it isn't cleansed in the first 2 minutes, which it usually is and will continue to be, it can be extremely useful at applying pressure. While I hit ruin checks 9/10 times, when a game starts and the killer doesn't have it, I think "well this game is pretty much over."
Against an even slightly knowledgeable a team, even a top tier killer (spirit, nurse, etc) can be looped long enough for 2-3 gens to pop before first hook. This is not to even mention SWF which if good can already plow through ruin but will be even stronger now that they have nothing to even slightly slow them down. If that happens, it's usually GG unless the killer has NOED, tunnels, or does some other annoying thing that will get them at best 1 kill. The weaker killers, (Clown, Legion etc) who have little to no map pressure or mobility suffer even more as gens can pop before they even find a single person. These killers on the bigger maps are basically playing a loss unless the survivors are complete potato. I am Rank 1 and 2 on both sides currently but haven't played killer lately due to the amount of RNG they rely on with maps, among other issues, the changes to Ruin just shows how little you understand your own game as playing solo survivor and relying on randoms is a much easier time than killer (as it always has been tbh.)
Without proper map pressure, most killers relied on ruin to make up for their lack of it in their kit, and with the amount of massive maps with heavy RNG that can screw over a killer completely, this change will just drive more people to either : Quit, Play survivor, or force more people to play the same 3-4 killers who have a sense of pressure.
(btw taking away the weaker killers' main perk for pressure in a way is a nerf to pig, thought it was funny and sad)
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I get why it was nerfed. It’s in every game, but what did devs do to solve the reason of WHY it’s in every game? There’s a bigger issue than ruin and no one at BHVR seems to get that.
I play survivor mainly but started killer and even with ruin, my gens are popping left and right. I’m rank 14 killer, rank 5 survivor. I’m getting matched with rank 5-6 survivors as a rank 14 killer. I relied on ruin to give me a shot to not get owned. Survivors always found the totem anyway in first few minutes
If you want killers to relax a bit maybe make pip requirements less so they don’t need a 4K to level up?
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if u removed the "Totem" part of the perk that that would make sense but again i doubt that would happen as that still to strong vs survivors
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get ready for the wave of protesters and quitters
ggwp
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I honestly think this is going to turn away a ton of Killer players, which will negatively affect Survivor players by increasing their queue time.
In my opinion, this update will be a negative impact overall. Killers got one of their best perks nerfed, without any sort of compensation in the form of buffs AND they got the Doctor who looks to be only marginally better.
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Great change, all the killers whining is justified, because is a good perk vs swf teams, while against random survivors became op, after they changed the hex placements and didn't do anything to fix ranking and matchmaking.
As a mostly solo survivor player, I am very happy and I might actually start playing again if this goes live.
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If it wasn't a Hex perk, it would be a decent perk. Not great, not bad tho.
However, its still a Hex perk. This perk will never win you a game, it will only make the games you win more lopsided.
I'm just so glad they change all the annoying stuff for Survivors. This has definitely shaken my confidence in the Devs, that they list that as a reason, but they haven't addressed a lot of the issues Killer's have. Maybe I'm entitled, but I play both sides and Survivor feels a LOT better to play then Killer.
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its dead. play survivor if you want to have fun, cause if you have fun with killer the devs will find out whats fun about it and destroy it infront of you. You arent supposed to have fun as killer, your to act as the survivors punching bag
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