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I don't understand the logic on ruin change.
Disclaimer: There's way too many threads already about how it's effect isn't good enough for hex or how this was a bad idea etc... this isn't the thread for that.
I have just one question that I can't find an answer to.
By behaviours own admission, ruin was used to slow down gen progression in the early game.
Quote: "Beyond the obvious desire to slow down generator repair, Hex: Ruin functions as one of the very few perks effective as slowing generator repair in the first couple of minutes of the Trial."
But, the change to ruin makes it weak early game, but strong late game
Quote: "It is less useful in the early game, but very useful in the late game."
So here's my question. Why change ruin to be better late game instead of early game, since that's what it was used for? Specially considering how rarely hex perks survive to the late game in the first place.
Comments
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Bumping this because I need some answer to it.
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There’s no logic behind, just strong survivor favor.
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you need to read the changes again to understand. the entire thing is written from a survivor point of view. there you have the reason. just look at the "benefits" the new version has: " survivors who are working on generators are unaffected as the perk no longer affects skill checks" . yep sounds like a big killer benefit to me.
the second one: " killers must be active in pushing survivors off generators to get value from it".
again a great benefit for the killer.
and the last one " less useful early game, but very useful late game".
yep pretty sure the HEX PERK will have a great lategame impact.
the whole thing reads like one of those survivor main reddit threads.
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I WANT to believe that the Devs were trying their best to make it fair for everyone, but it is getting hard.
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☝️ this.
Come on behaviour, I want to believe but at least give me something to warrant that.
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I truly really do. Just give me a little nugget, just somethin
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- "It is less useful in the early game, but very useful in the late" ----- "The hex persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing" OKAY
- Every change is because it is "annoying to play AGAINST" (freddy's dream world, doc shocks, ruin) who? what? for survivors? Killers are also humans you know. Killers are not AI
- "This version of the perk has many benefits... >lists three things that aren't even benefits for killer
- "We've noticed almost all killers are using this perk. Rather than looking into why this might be the case or potentially addressing any fundamental issues with our design, we've decided to rework the perk in the hopes of reducing its pickrate. No, we aren't addressing the fact that it's literally the exact same story for Decisive Strike, because survivors are better than you. Enjoy dealing with the sound issues!!!"
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The big thing I got from it was that they believed people used ruin for the gatekeeper emblem. While its true this was a nice benifit, it was far from its main purpose...which was to provide early slowdown so killers might be better off at getting a hook and forcing survivors off gens to save the first, before multiple gens pop. Early game is when gens get worked on the fastest, due to the killer not having ANY pressure on survivors at the start of the game.
The change to gatekeeper I feel like would simply cause killers to rank up, even when they're struggling to actually kill anyone. If you can't do decent work at your current rank, the last thing you really want is to rank up and have your next match even harder.
I'm trying to have an open mind, and see the potential...but sometimes thats hard. I really feel like abit more information is needed with both the changes to ruin as well as the Doc changes. MAYBE theres something key that hasnt been said that would make both changes better than what I'm thinking. I'm seeing threads talking about people quiting playing killer, or the game entirely, or ppl bringing moris every match as a sort of protest. On one hand...I dont wanna be a dick to people who had nothing to do with this. On the other hand...I never use moris really, and I have QUITE the supply... its tempting. I try to stay positive on here when I can, but this one is hard.
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I agree with everything said here. I’m usually the one to think, “you know, this might not be as bad as it sounds,” but now I’m skeptical. Early-game was always the most difficult since Survivors often spawn together gathered around a generator. Without Ruin or Corrupt Intervention, you’ve already lost a portion of your objective. I don’t use Ruin usually, but I know well enough that without it the games go by fast. And by fast, I mean FAST!
Also, as mentioned by different user, Ruin is a hex. Hexes tend not to last very long anyway, so their effect has to be concerning for Survivors so that they’re attention is diverted from generators to totems. If they make Ruin regress generators while they’re NOT being worked on, then Survivors will be incentivized to repair even MORE to counter Ruin’s effect, thereby making the generators go by even FASTER. That sounds awful to think about.
On the other hand, I’m thinking...
I feel like the devs are hiding something. I know for a fact no human is dumb enough to realize that their game is, excuse me, a bit outdated. They recognized that Ruin is in fact a very important tool for slowing the game down in the devlog, so why would they change it? Maybe, they’re changing base gameplay to balance this out? Maybe not slower gen times, but perhaps something else. They’ve been quiet for some time now, so we never know. I’m hopeful as usual.
And if I’m wrong, I’m sure they’ll listen to the community and revert the change.
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I think the logic behind it is simply profit. I won't deny they are concerned with balance at all, I believe they are, but they seem to be struggling in finding a middle ground between profit and balance.
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It's survivor sided change. There is no logic
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The one thing that I'm thinking might be going under the radar if its true... is maybe ruin will be more stealthy. Currently survivors know ruin is up as soon as they get a skillcheck, and a little message pops up showing ruin. Maybe that message wont pop up, and instead survivors will have to be attentive to know that their gens are regressing by themselves.
Its kinda like how Huntress Lullaby is pretty garbo because it announces itselve before it can have a real impact, while devour hope is more likely to survive longer due to survivors not knowing they should look for a totem until someone gets 1 shot. MAYBE the devs will let ruin have that sneaky aspect where survivors wont instantly know to look for it. The survivor who goes to unhook his teammate might not finish his gen first before going for the unhook, allowing for it to regress without his knowledge quite abit.
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I think you would just need to tap the gen for a second to check if the killer is running ruin. That's it.
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That would only be a nice blanket on top of a turd. Looks fine until you look at it.
* survivor touches gen and stands up.
*generators stops moving in half a second.
"Ruin is up!"
* does gen normally
Edit:
You beat me to it.
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Why, if they were going to change something to make this Ruin change make more sense, would they hide it? If there is something they are keeping from us they made a dumb decision in revealing the Ruin changes alone.
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One might think its designed to hose the Killer, since the perk will be easier in the early game for survivors. And then once they have gotten their part out of it, they can freely destroy the hex, robbing the Killer of what would be the useful part of the perk for him in the end game.
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The problem is, a totem staying that late in the game is almost impossible. So, honestly I'd rather see ruin be made into a normal perk instead of a totem. Sorry, but I'm not able to kick gens, not getting points for it. Only possible points you're going to get from this is for gate keeper...which how well will that happen if most gens go flying in the start.
You either go for a survivor to attempt a kill. Or you pressure them off gens, which you're not going to get kills
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Maybe if theres an obvious spark or something when you stop, but if theres not...might go unnoticed.
You might be right here if someone tries working on the gen for lets say 3 seconds, lets it sit for 6 and then sees if theyre 3 seconds of progress is still there. This would encourage people to finish whatever gen theyre working on before going for a rescue if they have that knowledge. I dunno...Im TRYING to see some good here. The fact that theyve made it easier to rank up with gatekeeper changes while possibly gutting a killer's actual ability to kill people doesnt sound too good. No one wants to be pipping and going into harder games after a 0k or something...
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New survivors have a hard time dealing with it, that's the only logic I can see, which is true but this is not how you fix it.
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I could see a version of what theyre going for that causes regressing gens to regress faster, but is NOT a hex and does NOT work automatically... Could work well with Surge.
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Survivors can't hit Ruin skill checks so they cried and it got changed.
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