New ruin brings back the old ancient technic... of actually applying pressure.
BEFORE READING: Note that I am not going to go into an potential fixes for totems or offer anything else of that nature because that is not what is on the patch notes and I am only talking about the perk based on what in in the ptb now.
I have seen a lot of people's views on this matter, some I agree with, others I don't. But after looking at the changes and thinking about it I have already answered a couple questions I have asked myself...
- Will I still use ruin? Yes absolutely.
- Is it as strong as it was? Yes, but in a different way.
- Does the change warrant such backlash from the community... In some cases yes.
The changes made to ruin (in my opinon) rewards killers who apply pressure and it helps them maintain a lead. Basically it rewards the people who actually play the game and don't use it as a crutch perk (this is coming from someone who plays killer more than survivor). The only problem I have with this perk is the fact that it is still a hex totem. I personally play some killers with no ruin, often times getting 3K's or 4K's, so I personally am not affected by this change at all.
The killers I think are going to be good, if not better with these changes to ruin are as follows (note that this is just speculation):
Legion: for the simple reason that if you injure survivors they are forced to either heal and stop working on the gen, mend and stop working on the gen, or do both and get downed if the killer is competent enough. Ruin combined with thana, surveillance, and mind breaker will be a very interesting build to see on him and I will be looking forward to it.
Demogorgon: Map pressure, portals, what more is there to say. Bring extra portal and power recharge addons and you will be applying pressure to gens to keep them damn survivors off long enough for it to have some effect.
Freddy: Even though he is really strong at the moment, get ready for him to get even better with these changes and his teleportation. Ruin and surveillance will be a very nasty combo on him.
Hag (sort of): If you have an area to patrol and keep on three or four gens they are never going to get done. The early game will be quite rough but if you bring range addons you can have enough pressure to regress them gens.
Billy: Mobility is a big thing to making new ruin work and that is something that billy is better than any other killer at doing (mostly). Patrol gens, chase, hook, go across the map and chase someone else leaving 1 person to save and one to do gens while you are already getting your next hook, ez game ez life.
Spirit: Spirit is still a reasonably strong killer even after her changes and she is still amazing at putting and keeping pressure on the map. Pressure means no one on gens, no one of gens with ruin means regression, regression means no complete generator.
Nurse: Not too much to be said here. Even though she is a bit weaker and has seen less play, good nurses will make good use of this perk if the right pressure is applied.
Perks that I think will be better with the new ruin either in the same build or indirectly:
Surveillance- The gen that ruin regresses is white so you can guard gens, not have to waste time kicking them, and keep them off of it.
Mind breaker- It will be easier to use this if you combo it with the aforementioned perk, but it can be used to nullify a sprint burst when returning to a gen to get the survivors off of it, and the regression makes it possible for this perk to effect survivors multiple times on a single gen if used properly making dead hard risky (if their injured) and sprint burst unusable because of the exhaustion.
Discordance- it will be used to keep two or more survivors off gens and it is more important to get more than one survivor off a gen because there are no more hex skill checks.
Corrupt intervention- This will probably be the go to perk for any trap killers and Micheal myers. It gives them some breathing room to do what they do, and will section the survivors off so that they can have time to set up for later.
Dying light- this one is a bit of a gamble on weather or not it will be good, but it is a slow down perk so it would be criminal for me not to include it on here.
These next couple of perks I am going to group together because they all work the same way and work to help the killer find survivors to get more pressure...
BBQ and chili, infectious fright, whispers, I'm all ears, stridor, and... oh god, I guess Iron maiden to some extent...
In summary, the new ruin is a perk for players who can apply pressure, it would be a HUNDRED times better if it weren't a hex perks, but it is what it is. The people who don't like the new ruin changes are not without reason, if you are new to the game and the terrible que system pits you against players that are better than you, then yes, old ruin is useful. And for the survivors that complained about old ruin... keep in mind that you either had to hit great skill checks, or just get rid of the damn totem. I hate to have the mentality of telling people to "git gud", but I would recommend trying to play a game without ruin, see how it goes, try practicing different and unique builds, it might work out for you.
If you disagree with anything I wrote or you want to maybe add something to the conversation please do I am happy to have a civil discussion with anyone, including this community.
Comments
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guess i should just be at 4 different places at the same time
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500 IQ Chad brain logic right here.
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I'm really trying to make the new ruin work but it often just feels like a dead perk tbh even with surveilance and i use Legion who is probably one of the better killers for the new ruin
I haven't played enough games to reach a deffinitive conclussion but it's not looking good so far
Kinda curious about the inclusion of mindbreaker, i don't have it unlocked but i always heard it's really bad
The couple of times i faced it as a survivor it did nothing to me
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Tell me how to put down pressure on ormond or mothers dwelling as the Trapper, Clown, Ghost face, Huntress, Doctor, Leather Face, or Legion.
Trick question you physically can’t. So 2 options either 1 you play a different killer or 2 you go play Civ 5
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just remember guys, its a late game perk because late game starts as soon as you land your first down 🤔
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Ah yes, the big brain logic.
100% flawless especially for idk, like a large portion of the killer pool.
Because you should only play meta killers.
Not like the perk itself is literally a detriment and you would be better off with literally any other hex perk.
On the bright side my Civ game is going well. Gandhi nuked me.
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"JuSt ApPlLy PrEsUrE"- generic survivor main
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Here's the thing man, new ruin doesn't accomplish old ruins use. With new ruin there is no instant early game gen slowdown which is why everyone ran it, to say that there was no risk to the killer to run it is a lie, everyone who runs it knows that it's very likely their perk won't last past 30 seconds but what it did was worth it especially with killers with no mobility tools. Killers like Nurse, Spirit, Billy, and Freddy didn't need old ruin but Legion and clown sure as ######### do. We don't care if the best killers get a perk that makes them better, we need a perk that gives mediocre killers like Legion and Clown a solid chance in red ranks. The killers you mentioned that can use this perk to the most don't even need it meanwhile the killers that did need it are just down a great tool now.
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If it wasn't a hex perk, it could be interesting. Also, if it wasn't a sub-par perk replacing the best killer perk in the game (at least by use) then it also could be interesting. Since it conforms to neither of those things, it's a terrible change. Personally, I don't think behaviour will do it, so a lot of discussions about its use are pointless imo.
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"Is it as strong as it was? Yes"
Stopped reading there.
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Hahahahahah 500 iq post from a survivor main. Just apply pressure to all gens at the same time.
New ruin accomplishes nothing more than a gen kick does, and we all know how super op non-pop gen kick is.
Regression is extremely slow, laughable really. You'll have to leave the gen alone for like 20 secs for it to be noticeable.
Also this perk does nothing for the first minute of the game where slow build-up killers needed it the most. Now players who can hit hard skill checks will melt through gens even faster.
Corrupt Intervention will now be used in 80% of builds so I guess devs will have to murder that perk as well. Can't imagine just giving up 2 gens for free without corrupt. Games will have to be way more sweaty.
You mentioned mindbreaker and ,(cough) dying light. These are such trash tier perks that even mentioning them is a disgrace. I'd rather run no perks at all.
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"I am happy to have a civil discussion" your optimism and hope for this forum is quite adorable. Unfortunately you wont get that here.
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Saw this thread before checking out the hex ruin change.....
THIS IS LITERALLY THE MOST USELESS PERK IN THE GAME GET OUT....
Why? Because gen tapping exists. Kicking gens dude....just no. The amount of time you spend is negated by a single click, and in order to regress a gen you have to spend time away from tracking your targets to kick it. I don't even kick gens on my killers anymore its a waste of time, and I still get 4k's because I didn't waste time BSing with a gen and instead just kept the chases up non stop. Ain't nobody got time for this new ruin unless you're completely oblivious to how pop goes the weasel works, which is far superior in every way. And its a hex.....get out....
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You like to call people you disagree with survivor mains lol😆
I have played 3k hours (both sides). I can play without ruin just fine
Honestly just take another slow down perk. There are plenty to choose from. You dont have to be that spirit with ruin dying light weasel etc. I bet you will become comfortable trying new perks after 10 matches. New ruin is not that bad either. Killer kids like to create this air of victimhood but killer is much easier to play now than it was a year or two ago
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yep because I spawned on the other side of the map and all 4 survivors spawned on the same gen and it gets done in under 30 seconds, I just need to learn to git gud and apply pressure
answer me on how to counter that, I dare you
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So the perk that is used by apparently 80% of killers gets gutted and the simple easy solution is to .... Just take another slowdown perk. Then what? Wait for corrupt to be gutted as well as it will be too popular?
Super easy ways to go about nerfed ruin:
"Jhust apphly pressur"
"gIt gUd"
"Play survivor"
"Run other perks"
Fun xD
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New ruin automatticly regresses gens, no kick required
If they tap it it will regress the second they let go
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If you mean tunneling and camping to apply pressure.. Yeah it will happen :)
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Okay, I have seen a few comments like this already so I am going to clear somethings up about killer pressure. As a killer, if you hook a person and are chasing another person that is going for the save, that is two people not working on gens and two people that are working on gens. If they are working on gens separately they can complete the generator in 80 seconds and they can complete a generator together in 44 seconds... but since you hooked someone they might try to go for the save, leaving one person on the gen at about, lets say, 50% completion. That means only one person is working on a gen and if you down the person you were chasing after getting the first hook then the person on the gen is going to be coming for the save or the two people from the first hook will be coming for the save or healing. Also depending on healing times you can be sure that ruin will be regressing that gen that they were was at 50% down to about 25% or 30% and you will know if they get back on it if you have surveillance then you can go chase them off of it and punish them for not healing. Ruin is not a perk that gives you your slow down for "free", you have to work so it can work. This all depends on how long the chase lasts for and you can get perks to shorten these, but you can also ignore that survivor, threaten them (not completely ignore them, don't chase them for that long just "save the best for last"), and go after other survivors to put pressure on them and not get looped and waste your time on one survivor. THAT is being at 4 different places at once.
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I love all the "killers just need to git gud" arguments when the entire reason for this change is survivors don't like having to hit difficult skill checks.
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No perk can possibly be the worst when monstrous shrine exists
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I will admit, it is harder to apply pressure on big maps like that with a weaker killer, and I can agree with most killers being negativity affected by the new ruin changes like leatherface, plague, Micheal, wraith, clown, etc. But I also understand that nothing is perfect and we will need to find an ample strategies to work around these issues with the new ruin. I just think the new ruin is not as bad as many people think it is.
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I agree about legion, I think he will come out better with these changes.I included mind breaker in my legion demonstration for the purpose of slowing the game down indirectly by having the survivors make a decision. Either work on a gen when I know you are working on it with surveillance and take a hit because you don't have an exhaustion perk ready because either, 1. it was sprint burst, dead hard, lithe, head on, or balanced landing and you already used it and you are still exhausted from mind breaker, or 2. I can catch you in the three second period the exhaustion when you don't have it if you haven't used your perk before working on the gen. If you spread your pressure and make them use their exhaustion perks and leave them alone, then come back to them later, this perk is more effective, if they want their exhaustion perk they are going to have to either take a risk and work on a gen with surveillance potentially, or wait for the 40-30 second cool down of your exhaustion perk to go down before working on the gen. If the survivor decides to work on the gen with 30 seconds left of the cool down of exhaustion with someone else... a gen with 2 people takes 44 seconds, divided by half that means 22 seconds you have to work on the gen and recharge your 30 second exhaustion perk (without vigil taken into consideration) and that means about 8 seconds for you to recharge your exhaustion perk, not taking into consideration that it might be 18 seconds if you didn't stop running after using your exhaustion perk. This means I have that much time to come back to that gen and if I can get you off that gen for long enough and maybe get an easy down because of no exhaustion perk, then people go for the save and ruin gets to do it's thing and reset mind breaker on that gen for someone else to have fun with. So if you make survivors use their exhaustion perks, yes, mind breaker can be a good perk if used right.
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That took me a couple of reads but i get the idea
I'll give it a try when i finally unlock it
Think I'll still prefer blood echo though
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yep because I spawned on the other side of the map and all 4 survivors spawned on the same gen and it gets done in under 30 seconds, I just need to learn to git gud and apply pressure
answer me on how to counter that, I dare you
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What about poor Pig?
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I didn't think about that actually. That is actually a good perk on legion. I completely forgot about it lol.
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the generators regress automatically when new ruin is up
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Yeah i quite like it
Sometimes survivors even get scared of it and try to heal franticly wich buys you loads if time
Or you can bassicly garanty it with the Legion pin
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I believe pig would be good with the new ruin for different reasons than the rest of the killers (besides legion) I mentioned above. Sorry, I completely forgot about poor pig. Pig would be good with the ruin because the traps and the fact that if the survivors complete the gen, the trap activates and your against the clock. If you try to get the trap off before you pop the gen then the gen will regress. Either way, the game works against you. I appreciate this @TAG and I'm sorry again for not thinking of pig with the new ruin :)
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We absolutely do not have to find anything new.
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Right, but what about before you get that first Trap on? What buys you time to get the first Trap on?
Also, what about the Survivors who are comfortable with waiting until a gen pops to start working on the boxes?
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Well, that all depends on either your game sense, or tracking perks such as whispers especially on pig. You might be able to sneak up on them with your crouch as well if you learn how to use whispers to locate survivors in the early game or even when you lose someone in the mid game. Perks like spies for the shadows (one I should have mentioned before in my original post) works well to. But I would highly recommend whispers if you haven't tried it already. Ruin, surveillance, whispers, and a perk of your choosing for the fourth slot will be really good and will help you get the ball rolling. Whispers can also be replaced with discordance if the gens have multiple people on them. I would also say that bringing extra traps for addons and tampered timer would be go to addons with that sort of build.
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Alright, fine. You dared me. There are still 4 gens left... a lot can happen with 4 gens left. As long as you are applying proper pressure you might make a come back I've had it happen to me before multiple times, just keep in the game, don't tilt. That sort of stuff happens with old ruin if they land their hex skill checks. Always prepare for the worst. If your also scared of people rushing gens with 4 people, discordance. Even if you don't make it in time, which happens, pick a survivor out when you do get there and chase them, hook them, or ignore them and save them for later if they are good at running you around. If they all got on 4 gens, you can be sure as hell they are going to all be on the same gen for the rest of them so discordance will tell you where they are at and pressure them off while ruin does it's thing.
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I already use Surveillance and Ruin. It does not do anything until people let go of the gens, so the time I spend looking for people to get off gens is still time spent where Ruin is not slowing down the game at all. If I have to use Whispers as well, that is three perks dedicated to making sure Ruin actually does something meaningful. At that point, is that really worth the trouble?
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By pressure you mean slugging, camping, and tunneling.
Things that survivors complain about constantly.
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Well, whispers helps find survivors to get the pressure going and keep it going by giving you information on the survivors whereabouts and where they are generally. Like I said before it can help you find your first victim, but it can also help you later if it is a 1v1 scenario with hatch and you don't know where they are or the hatch. It is a good perk in general and not just for helping ruin... many people run it to find survivors it is a very universally good perk in most builds, not just for ruin. If you want a build for pig without ruin, I'd say, stbfl, thana, sloppy, whispers would be a good build to run on her that doesn't need ruin.
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I've already tried the Thana/Sloppy tactic on Pig. She's too slow while crouched to really make effective use of it the way Ghostface can. Besides, this is a thread about the merits of Ruin, not how to salvage things without it. Having to use three perks to make a Hex perk work doesn't sound promising to me.
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I personly wouldn't bother with surveilance. The combo is a bit overrated if you ask me
Discordance will probably help a lot more by being able to focus the gens that will be completed the fastest
Ruin on it's own should be enough cause one person will be looking through boxes and another will be chased wich means a max of 2 gens that won't be affected by ruin
Though honestly, i think PGTW will be more effective, poor piggy just doesn't have the mobility to make good use of the new ruin i think
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If anyone truly believes that all killers can apply pressure equally without hex: ruin with map design the way it is, you are either:
A. Slow.
B. Delusional.
C. A little of both.
There is no argument to be made here. Short of bringing the best add-ons and threatening moris, there's little most killers can do against good survivors. Key word: good.
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I said "how to counter that" not a paragraph saying basically "play with no mistakes" new ruin is garbage and in that scenario the survivors have completed 20% of their objective before I have even started my first chase. and you can only apply pressure to 1 survivor at a time, even if you juggle well. and that DOESN'T happen with old ruin, because everyone would need to hit great skill checks, all 4 of them without missing 1. the odds of that being the case is very unlikely. the scenario I painted for you with NEW RUIN will be much more likely since people don't need to hit greats to pull it off. discordance can be ok but easily countered by pressuring multiple gens on a large map, and it does nothing to stop them from 2+ teaming on a gen that is close to being done. and you say "pressure them off while ruin does its thing" o yeah because hex totems are KNOWN to last longer than 60 seconds /s
it's obvious you don know what you are talking about. plus I said how do you counter that scenario, the answer is YOU CAN'T
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I keep trying it and I have to say...I honestly don't believe anyone who says they are going to use it. Not going into a debate about it but there is no way killers are using a perk slot that will more than likely be empty most of the game for the very little benefit it would provide while active. Ruin will be the killers deja Vu.
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