Otz also gets destroyed without ruin.
Otz is a great killer, but I've read people saying "oh, well, but how does Otz win without ruin then?". He also struggles without ruin, A LOT. This is the kind of game all killers will be facing from now on, since you can't tunnel (DS) to do your objectives faster and Adrenaline will still be a frustrating thing for killers.
Also, you can't expect every killer to be like Otz, that's the problem with DBD, for survivor you have to be able to hold M1, but as killer you have to be a Pro, 5k+ hours into the game, know all mind games, know all details of your killer, or else f*ck off and go play civilization, cuz you're bad.
I've seen him struggling a lot unless he faces potatoes, I've also seen him panicking in most trapper games "OMG... this is bad, this is bad..." until he gets a little lucky and snowballs, because you can do that with trapper, but not with other killers like pig, doc or clown...
Not having an early game mechanic with all pallets up in maps where loops are super safe (like McMillan or Autohaven) and 3 guys working on gens while you're chasing the first one gives survivors an insane head start.
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I mean, you're listing Autohaven and McMillan as hard killer maps. Are you sure you play the game at a high enough level where not having Ruin will affect you that much?
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well.. the problem is... what are you supposed to do with killers like trapper to apply pressure and slow the game down? tunneling to get someone out of the game would be the obvious right choice, but survivors don't like that, so ds is a thing. So now you have to slug to counter ds, but survivors dont like that, so unbreakable is a thing.
for every way you can play to apply pressure and actually tryhard as a killer, there is a hard counter perk for survivor. cause it's still your job to make survivors have a good time, you arent the one thats supposed to play to win.
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I will reply here since I recently have replied that Otz does well without Ruin recently so I feel like you are referring to me lol
Quite simply, not every Killer is at the skill level of Otz... then their rank is adjusted to a skill level that best suits them to play comfortably in.
Otz gets destroyed sometimes yes, but he is undeniably a good killer.
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I just find it funny that people consider him a God among killers.
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Dead by daylight Dan is a better killer, he hasn't ever been looped more than twice by the same survivor and he's always got a knack of knowing exactly where the survivors are.
He's not too well known but one day we'll all be cheering his name for he is the greatest dbd player to this day. Some say he takes the game too seriously but he knows his name is on the line so he must strive for perfection and deliver all the spaghetti sauce to the entity.
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Everyone can be destryoed without ruin. I love Otz, he's one of my fav streammers to watch but idk why y'all are still using streammers as reference. Everything is relative in this game and even the best killer player can be genrushed in one minute
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Personally I don't. He's good, but he makes mistakes. But I've seen a lot of people putting him as an example "well, Otz wins without ruin, so Git Gud, the problem is not the game, it's you that are bad killers"
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I've been using ruin less and less even before this announcement because I don't want to rely on it, and I've done okay generally although the games go faster (faster than a game where ruin lasts anyway). But aside from me being very far from otz level, I've had to use even more gen perks (corrupt + discordance or corrupt + weasel usually) and I've had to be less nice, I've been slugging more and sometimes tunnelling someone out if gens go too fast, I'd rather play in a way that everyone has fun instead of having to be completely ruthless though.
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This game isn't complicated. Perk combinations isn't rocket science. The guy just likes to try different things beside using whatever meta is currently popular.
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No. I didn't say they're hard maps for killers, I said they have strong loops. So if a potato (or even a half decent survivor) just safely throws pallets he'll last 60 seconds (remember, all pallets are up) and they'll make the first 3 gens by the time you down him, carry him to the hook and find someone else. Or if not, they'll have the gens at 80%-90% and they'll resume later.
This is mainly how many (most) of my survivor games go at high ranks without ruin, I immediately go to a gen, start doing it and by the time the killer downs the guy, my gen is done and at least one more is done. I feel like most of the time without ruin I HAVE CONTROL over the game, and not the killer. I can decide to be kind to the killer and chill or keep gen rushing him.
Those are games at high ranks, 1st chase= 2-3 gens down.
It will be a fun time to be in a SWF and a bad time to be killer in DBD.
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I watch a ton of streamers. You know what every single one of them that have a lot of builds that do not contain ruin have in common? They don't travel too far from hook, they don't hesitate to slug, and they are not above the tunnel. I'm assuming this is what the people who keep telling everyone to get better at gen pressure means?
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What OP is trying to say is that the community shouldn't treat streamers like their unbeatable God's who, always destroy the most sweaty groups ever. As Scott Jund said, this ruin rework was done at the wrong time.
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Since you parrot peanits, maybe you can answer the question i asked him about this.
To what benefit? Did you miss the bloodhunt where constantly noob killer made threads about matchmaking and how it is super unfair to play against red ranks? The mm is so broken due to a lack of killers that being in lower ranks does not matter at all. Because after a given amount of time the cap of +6 will be ignored in order to find a match.
Edit:
Checkout the thread -> https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119040/matchmaking#latest
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Using insidous and noed I managed to get my 3 or 4k.
I decided to play nasty and dirty, camping and always tunneling.
At the future gonna use mori.
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He also seems to play against a lot of bad survivors.
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Scott Jund said something like this to the Ruin nerf: "Ruin allows me to play nice, now I just have to tunnel, camp and do things I dont want to do".
This is what you'll see from now on, a lot of killers camping or tunneling or slugging (all NOT FUN STRATEGIES FOR ANYONE, hello devs!!!) just to try to keep up with the game. I'm not even saying to 4k, just to try to 2k.
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Ye he is bad he need to pressure gens more.
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You have to do those things anyways, since real rank 1 survs will almost ALWAYS hit great skill checks and rush your ass out doesnt matter what.
Ruin is good cause there's not that many players out there so, most get punish or forced to get the totem.
Thing is, survivors are pretty salty; you wont watch insults in popular streams but this is from a game I just played, we were 4 ranks 1 that depiped that match cause people cant handle being sluged. I got 1 surv hooked while 2 were sluged, 2 instadc'd and the 3rd just left a few minutes later. Funny thing, if players dc, you should at least protect ur pipe and mmr.
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i am sure the balance theam will stream a few games and showcase and proof how fun and fine the new ruin is; i mean they have to know how to balance a game by playing on all ranks dont they?
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Also to the idea that killers who can't win against red rank survivors without ruin will naturally derank-
As red rank killer you'll go against red rank survivors, so you'll go back to purple, which should be fine. Except in purple rank you still mostly go against red ranks, so back to green. In green you'll have some matches against your own rank. And also a lot against red. I went against red rank survivors often when I was a green killer and I go against green killers as a red survivor now. So I guess you back to yellow...
Mainly bothering to respond to this argument because a dev essentially said this, despite presumably knowing that the matchmaking in this game may be...slightly off sometimes.
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thats cause hes a garbage player
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I've watched Otz a few times but I believe Fungoose and Tru3 are a lot better than Otz just my opinion from watching plenty of DBD killers.
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Well, he is the only DBD youtuber that doesnt get completely butthurt and blames everyone but himself when losing, he instead looks at what he did wrong and what could have get done better.
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Again guys, I'm not saying he's the best, the thing was that people were waving him as an example of Killers that 4k without Ruin. I think Tru3 is better than Otz, but he runs ruin on most of his killers.
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The problem is, certain maps are too big, there are good windows and so many pallets, that you can waste the time of the killer immensly. Now take in account, that you play with a low pressure killer like clown / pig / plague etc., who needs time to get to the next gen. I don't think, this ruin nerf will work out. The kill % of low pressure killers will drop significantly and some maining them, wlll drop playing this killers and switch to high pressure like spirit / billy / legion.
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I've been using CI in more matches to get more used to it, because I don't have hope in the ruin nerf.
What I found is that CI can ineed buy you enough time to hook 1 survivor if you manage to find someone early in game before they even touch a gen. Has a similar effect to ruin in the high ranks, but the good thing about ruin was that there was the possibility that it could last more than 2 minutes.
To me ruin was something that allowed me to play killer without having to sweat too much, try hard and play dirty, I mean it allowed me to play the game and have some fun instead of making the experience miserable for me and for the survivors.
After experimenting more with CI I can say that even if I manage to get a 3k or 4k, the game just isn't very fun for me anymore and I already feel much less motivated to play killer.
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Difference is Tru3 try's to play as fair as possible, Otz slugs every game and forces hook states and deaths, which is what you have to do when you don't have ruin against good survivors.
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"Everyone can be destroyed with or without ruin."
FTFY
Really though, you people need to play on Xbox at red ranks. It's like Ruin doesn't even exist. 3 gens will still pop your first chase because majority of games are SWF and they can all do great skill checks.
I'm one of them... https://xboxclips.com/thesuicidefox/81e238c3-025f-4b8b-b7a6-785b5f6edc6d
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I do the same thing, I enjoy chases, I want to chase everyone 3 times, giving him the time to have fun and be fair, giving me time to have fun. We play the game to have fun, not because of emblems or rank, just because we want to have a good time, and Ruin buys you time to do that.
Doing one chase and having 3 gens gone is not fun, so you'll have to camp, tunnel, slug, and you'll probably still lose or get 1k. That also will make toxicity even worst in the community, since survivors are gonna be salty, or you'll be salty or feel like a ######### killer because they rescued the last guy with borrowed time and 4 escaped, and they'll be like "ez baby killer, n00b camper"... prepare yourselves, shittier times are coming.
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Youtube or twitch?
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But that's literally my point and do you think that PS4 and PC are different? That's why I replaced Ruin with Corrupt Intervention
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From what I've seen watching many different streamers/Youtubers, yes it is different. True is always surprised when 2 gens pop during the first chase with Ruin. THAT IS THE NORM ON XBOX. Like it is literally not even worth the perk slot. I've seen so many videos of gens going way WAY too slow. They do them fast, but not even close to how fast they go on Xbox. Trust me.
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Why is that? Honestly, I'm a PC player. Is it easier to hit skillchecks with a controller? Or is it lazyness to go look for the totem?
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I don't even understand why people are talking about Otz to begin with. He's not a god tier killer or anything.
He's fun to watch but that's about it.
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I've explained that many times in the thread, it's because people use him as an example of "killers that 4k without ruin, so if you don't 4k without ruin you're just bad".
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It's because they want the Ruin change to stay. The devs have basically made survivor easy mode now and the survivor mains are desperate to keep the new Ruin changes.
It's sad, but that's our community for you.
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It's not easier to hit skillchecks but ruin doesn't really slow anyone in my games on PS4 either which is why I stopped using it. Ruin sometimes lasts to the near the end bc everyone can hit greats so they don't bother looking for it.
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He's on both but I can't remember his channel name, it's got weird characters (©°¢↓¥π`,etc) I've never seen before in it.
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Actually I think it's because of Gears of War. Almost everyone that owns an Xbox has played this game and I see a LOT of familiar faces on DBD that I knew from Gears. In that game, you have something called active reload which is basically a straight line version of a skill check. So my guess is that Xbox players are just more used to that mechanic. I played the game since 2006, I have Seriously 2 and 3 legit, I have over 25k hours across the entire series, and I was PLACED in diamond rank first few seasons of Gears 4 for TDM and Guardian (and placed in Onyx for every other playlist). When I started DBD I found skill checks insanely easy to learn because of all the years of hitting perfect active reloads (and the perfect zone shrinks each time you hit it consecutively). It became especially easier when I switch the skill check to the A button as I found it easier to get the timing down (bumpers can be a bit wonky sometimes).
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newsflash: most survivors are bad.
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They don't have to be "hard killer maps" to be relevant in his example. On the contrary: Even maps that are easier for killers have enough material in the early game to hold the killer off before they can stop the first 3 gens popping off. Then after that the Survivors still have pallets and loops to spare, especially if they're SWF and the chase target is paying attention. Killer's got maybe one or two hooks and the Survivors are already half done with gens or more.
You can play the death by degrees card because there's no real line where the effects of game design and the effects of skill border eachother. They overlap because one affects the other directly. Fact of the matter is a team of SWF survivors that can hit Great skill checks will pop half the gens before Killer gets one quarter of the amount of hooks they need to succeed.
People throw around the term "gen rush" a lot but it's more complicated than that. It's the time Killers require to compete versus the speed Survivors can complete their objective. The balance of that is skewed and Ruin brought that back into line in red ranks because it deprived Survivors of Great skill check bonus progression until they cleansed the totem.
That being said, I can fully understand why they wanted to axe Ruin because it really isn't fun or fair for new players at all. But without normalizing the speed at which gens progress across the board it will just force killers to up the toxicity and never feel bad about it.
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I found skill checks on ruin to be fairly easy to hit. And I have maybe 50ish hours playing survivor and about 550ish as killer. When I play survivor it's normally with one other friend and when I said I was going to look for ruin they just said "what you're not gonna power through ruin?" I was confused by that and so we started to just do gens and it's almost as if ruin didn't even exist. Killer was focused on two other survivors meanwhile we were just doing gens.
But telling killers to git gud. When survivors have so many get out of jail free cards is annoying.
DS, Dead hard, Adrenaline, keys, BT. Let's not forget the games of survivors body blocking hooks with flashlights, DH and possibly even a med kit for the extra hit.
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I have a theory it's intentional, to try and globally reduce killers kill rates. Not just the perk, but to intentionally globally nerf killers.
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Jesus, thank God I'm playing on PS4 haha
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Ok. What does that opinion have to do with the topic at hand?
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I think you’re missing the point. Yes, everyone will get destroyed, but that example was of Otz being destroyed without any of his input being a factor. There was nothing he could have done to fight back. He got destroyed simply because the survivors had control the entire time. If he had lost due to being outplayed, that’s a different story, but he played reasonably well and still had no hope. Unless you’re a god among men, teams like these will very rarely lose since they are the kind of team that realizes where the power role truly lies in Dead By Daylight.
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Well to your point, you said otz faces bad survivors- this makes sense because most survivors suck. As for the thread, this ruin change won’t matter as much for most because they suck anyways. It’s only gonna hurt against good survivors, who are the power role.
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Noob3 and Puppers do the same. It's not that special.
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I play xbox too and have all my game play out like that for a month, then creeps like scott jund insist "the data says 4mans are rare!" and ignore the problem
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