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Kill Switch update: We have temporarily Kill Switched the Forgotten Ruins Map due to an issue that causes players to become stuck in place. The Map will remain out of rotation until this is resolved.

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Why killers are upset

Like any change made in this game, the forums have devolved into an us vs them display of micro dick waving. Every opinion is met with hateful responses like "cry-baby killer" or "entitled survivor"

So in this thread i am going to try to reasonably describe why killer players are unhappy at the new changes. I may be wrong, i may miss a few but these are the reasons as i see them.

1) Killers saw ruin as the only answer to gen speeds. They feel like being able to delay the game as long as possible gives them an advantage. And they aren't wrong in that thought.

2) New ruin is a completely opposite perk in its implementation. Since the game has come out killers have been conditioned to defend generators. That having generators pop early is losing. The emblem system reinforced this. Even survivors got to the point where they thought they won and deserved to escape when the last gen was popped. End game build are considered toxic, and those who run end game perks are crappy killers who need to 'git gud'.

You cant change 3 years of conditioning overnight without backlash. Good or bad it just cant happen.

3) Killers were calling for a ruin change. They wanted it more consistent. Instead, they made it an end game perk, tied to totems. The inconsistency in ruin wasnt affected. People see lit totems they cleanse. Hence why haunted grounds works. Ruin is still going to be cleansed within a minute of the game starting only now it wont have made a difference in the game at all

If they made ruin weaker and removed it from the hex then the backlash would probably have been much less.

4) Killers have been saying 2 things; gen speeds too fast, totems too inconsistent. Developers say, ruin is unfun for survivors so here's the change. It feels like a slap in the face to killers.

Again, this isn't about whether or not the perk is useful or not. Just trying to open a dialogue into why there is such backlash on this change

Comments

  • podkall
    podkall Member Posts: 109

    What makes people running endgame build bad? what if they are trying or just like the playstyle? I don't play it but someone might enjoy it I play survivor

  • Xerge
    Xerge Member Posts: 928

    You got it right.

    Ruin is a good perk to slowdown early game and it can potentially stay up for more than two minutes, but it has its flaws and can be frustrating for killers when it doesn't last more than 30 seconds, but hey let's make it even less useful for them and less frustrating for rank 20 survivors.

  • kurgan8282
    kurgan8282 Member Posts: 264

    you said it completely right, as survs, I guess now we will all get used to see killers more tunnel-friendly or even camping, and at same time I see lots of end game builds happening!

    Basically,as killer, i d stick to my build replacing ruin with CI, but as surv, I wouldnt blame anymore a killer who tunnels or run NOED or whatever, nor that I did that much anyways, after all, a killer has to kill.

  • podkall
    podkall Member Posts: 109


    Blood warden, Remember me, Rancor, Bitter Murmur and whispers are endgame perks with NOED.

    If someone thinks NOED is op they are delusional, I had lot of games where all I needed to do is destroy the Hex and than it's easy getaway.

    Also doing Totems is a strategy for preventing NOED from even appearing it's useless if you destroy all totems.

    Borrowed time cancels insta down from noed, injured guy can Dead hard unhooked guy can sprint burst there's lot of diffrent ways to counter NOED.

    Anything else you didn't know?

  • mouse0270
    mouse0270 Member Posts: 849

    So I am a killer main, at least I prefer to play killer more than survivor. I think I've only ever run ruin once or twice. It had to be on Hag because even though I prestiged her I never unlocked ruin as a teachable perk.

    When I started playing the game, I found that people relied on that perk to much for pressure in the game. I don't want to ever rely on a single perk that much. The whole reason I stopped running whispers was because I kept found myself using it.

    Yes, I feel like at higher ranks you need to find a better way to control map pressure. I honestly have fallin love with Corrupt. No one ever complains about it in End Game Chat, It doesn't punish New Players who may be SWFing with red ranks. All it does it make it so I can manage map pressure easier at the start of the game.

    Now I do say all of this because I want to bring up this "conditioning" thing. I do think BHVR's emblem system and even the words they choose "Entity Displeased" have made a lot of people feel like if the don't 4k they lost the game.

    I have and will always look at a 2k a win, but would much rather have more four stacks of BBQ because I would bounce my a** for some BP. I also get really bored about 8-12 minutes into the game, at that point I would rather the game be over and into the next match.


    So I would actually suggest that maybe BHVR changes their emblem system to condition players into accepting a 2k as a win. Because the game should be fun for both sides and if the game is designed where on average the killer kills 3-4 people than that is 1-0 people escaping each game. How is that fun for both sides?

    Why don't we see a 2k as the average and what you should get as killer? I do, that is how I always looked at the game from a killer perspective.

  • T2K
    T2K Member Posts: 635

    Although its not directly about ruin, I think there are some more reasons for the uproar.

    - The phrasing of the dev notes. They said its a problem to play "against". Their wording only involved one side in terms of frustration, fun and struggle.

    - The transparency. The change came out of nowhere. And they didnt say anything about further steps. So people just see something important suddenly taken away from them.

    - Missunderstanding. The fact they think the gatekeeper emblem was the reason for running ruin hit many players hard. They didnt even tackle the objective times. So players feel disconnected from the devs because they base their decisions on wrong reasons and dont see the core problems.

    I think these things also add up to the ruin topic and gets players angry.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627

    +1 on point 2) how endgame killer wins are described. Especially when gens are popped super fast and the altruism begins like "no we won already, the killer doesn't deserve that 1k" and mess up the whole game into a 3-4k

    And totally agree to point 4) See the response to nurse changes. Many people said, nurse is still viable and probably most deadly killer, it is just unfun to play now. No response to that. Legion change was mostly survivor sided. And on second change, they gave back the vaulting speed, which was good, but in the same patch nerfed deep wounds without anyone complaining about it before. Now doctor and ruin, where doctor has no QoL changes, just survivor frustration is adressed on both killer and perk. The only change for doctor is that he doesn't have to switch stances now. While putting on a 3 second cooldown that now blocks ALL of your attacks. I seriously don't know about any killer related change that targets killer frustration. The only thing is the change to insta heals, which did not render them useless. The styptic is in some cases even better than before.

    @podkall Running endgame builds doesn't make anyone bad. You play most of the game with less active perks actually. It is just the survivors that call at NOED (for example) to be a bad killer reward in endgame, which is silly.

  • goat10em
    goat10em Member Posts: 749

    I got upset about the ruin change because it did not address what i've been frustrated about for months now. The maps in this game are set up that good survivors take a giant dump on good killers. Even tofu who is probably the most optimistic streamer there is said just the other night, when you get a lobby of good survivors, you just roll over and take it. That is completely deflating to play killer. Knowing that your skill will take you so far but ultimately your game outcomes rely on you getting survivors who are not very good. It's frustrating and something I hoped would be addressed but it does not look like it.

  • csandman1977
    csandman1977 Member Posts: 2,358

    +10 for actual conversations! Thank you all!

  • anormalman
    anormalman Member Posts: 105

    Change the title. No one is upset.

    Why killers are disappointed

  • ASpazNamedSteve
    ASpazNamedSteve Member Posts: 1,784

    I mean like you said, you can't change a meta perk without that side going apeshit.

    Do the same with a meta survivor perk and the exact same will happen.

  • csandman1977
    csandman1977 Member Posts: 2,358

    I didn't say there werent other end game perks, just noed is arguably the strongest and triggers the most end game toxicity.

  • Quiet_Observer
    Quiet_Observer Member Posts: 68

    Killers are also mad because we aren't being heard and them making the game fun for low rank survivors is bs

  • podkall
    podkall Member Posts: 109

    not true people are just toxic, or they faced 3 gen killer or they faced mori killer

  • MegHasCuteFeet
    MegHasCuteFeet Member Posts: 369

    Generators are way too easy to finish. Proof: 80% use of ruin in red ranks.

    Killers are forced to run ruin to even be on the same level as survivors, and now they just take it away without any compensation.

    This dev team doesn't understand their own game.

    Muh gatekeeper

  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213
    edited January 2020

    Accurate post. Though @T2K adds additional points that are very important to the discussion.

    At this point I just want the Devs to say something about this. But for some reason they are fine ignoring the real issue and just address less important things, like they are trying to act like the real issue doesn't exist. Which is similar to the way the notes were written.