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Last second switching and why it's a problem.

Odds are if you've played killer for long enough you're likely aware of what last second switching is. For those that somehow don't, this has to do with how the lobbies are designed. 4 survivors connect to the killer's lobby and allows the killer to select perks based off of the information provided to them as the countdown starts, often times all but one survivor will ready up and the moment the killer hits 'ready' or as the countdown reaches roughly 6 seconds 1 or more players switch into a different loadout often containing flashlights, toolboxes, instahealing medkits or skins people often dodge. People who do this when asked often do it so the killer does not equip lightborn, franklin's demise and any other character or perk that would make their item pointless or because they contain a skin they often get dodged for (such as legacy). Though one thing I tend to see go hand to hand with last second switching is extreme levels of toxicity as well which often includes childish behavior such as applying a macro to flashlights to cause very annoying sounds, t-bagging (may or may not be annoying to the killer, case by case basis) and in general leads to very poor behavior on both sides of the game creating a very unfun environment.

Why is this a problem? This is because part of the game as a killer means you're spending time to prepare for specific survivors and items. For instance if you see a Jake, you might want to run bloodhound or hangman's trick as a basic example, or if you see a flashlight you may want to equip lightborn, overwhelming presence or franklin's demise, if you see a medkit you might want to run sloppy butcher, overwhelming presence, franklin's demise, coulrophobia or any other perk related to slowing down healing speed or removing items. By allowing last second switching to happen, it cuts out a feature of the game intended to allow you as the killer to prepare against the survivors and is a tool survivors use to cheese out the system instead of learning to adapt to perks that are not even frequently used to begin with.
Players often complain that if this was fixed that killers would dodge them for having a skin (such as exclusives, legacy, prestige, etc) which is often a very silly reason to be dodged which I agree with, however this does not excuse the fact that this can be done in the game either. Often times the same people who last second switch from my experience are also the same exact people who use lower rank survivors as an attempt to bully lower rank killers rather than genuinely wanting to use the skin alone.

What I would propose is that after 40 seconds survivors are no longer able to change their loadouts and that killers are granted the remaining 20 seconds (without being locked out) to change their loadouts appropriately without the risk of having perks being rendered entirely useless or being forced to D/C or handle a very miserable game. As it stands, there is absolutely no valid reason why the lobby should be continued to be exploited as an attempt to ruin the day of other players and negating a feature entirely. If people want to run perks light lightborn, tough and better luck next time as items are not a requirement to win to begin with but rather a luxury to the game instead.

Comments

  • Visionmaker
    Visionmaker Member Posts: 2,051
    edited August 2018

    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

  • Der_Schatten
    Der_Schatten Member Posts: 82

    I do it as a Survivor if i want to play with a Flashlight or if i want to play with my Wife (Same Char/Same Outfit :))... cuz 90% of the Time Killers dodging us. We wanna Play!!! Not waiting an Hour to play a 5min Round cuz u get facecamped -_-

    • Killers have the Chance to see, who they Play against, wath do the have with them... and are they playing together... You got all the Information... But What about the Survivor? If we could see who the Killer is... we would doudge all those Freddy´s and Billy´s cuz they camp the most -_- (ps4)

    Me as a Killer dont care about a switch in last secound... i laugh if they switch in last sec. and Fail in Game to do a Flashlight save XD BTW DO YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT A FLASHLIGHT ANYMORE? They got nerfed soo damn hard... you must be a rank 20 to get stuned while picking some pleb up.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @Visionmaker said:
    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Killers will just DC with last-second switches or make sure last-second switchers die first and as annoyingly as possible. I'd rather they lobby dodge.

    Trying to force people to play games they consider unfun will never work. Survivors need to get over themselves and accept that Killers are not going to play with them if they use things that are unbalanced.

  • lyric
    lyric Member Posts: 611
    Orion said:

    @Visionmaker said:
    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Killers will just DC with last-second switches or make sure last-second switchers die first and as annoyingly as possible. I'd rather they lobby dodge.

    Trying to force people to play games they consider unfun will never work. Survivors need to get over themselves and accept that Killers are not going to play with them if they use things that are unbalanced.

    I just don’t like when I’m playing solo I can’t bring a flashlight in without getting dodged or a Medkit because it’s automatically assumed I have a syringe and I’m gonna follow the killer around and immediately pick up whoever he downs but I run we’ll make it and use it for even more of a speed boost, I know I don’t HAVE to bring an item but that’s part of what makes this game fun for me and I like the thrill of trying to get away without getting hit while having an item because at high ranks if you do get into a game with a item they are almost guaranteed to have Franklins and it’s a challenge to keep your item. I mean I don’t condone dodging but as I’ve said before even as a survivor main I would be ok with swf being unranked and solo staying ranked to give it a true rank instead of “ I partied with my low rank friends and wrecked all these noobs to get rank one”, then lobby dodging will be unacceptable with no excuse
  • Visionmaker
    Visionmaker Member Posts: 2,051
    edited August 2018
    Orion said:

    @Visionmaker said:
    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Killers will just DC with last-second switches or make sure last-second switchers die first and as annoyingly as possible. I'd rather they lobby dodge.

    Trying to force people to play games they consider unfun will never work. Survivors need to get over themselves and accept that Killers are not going to play with them if they use things that are unbalanced.

    D/Cs are punished and offer BP to the opposing side. Lobby dodging is sanctioned, unlimited, effortless, and onesided.
    Killers need to understand that it works both ways. If they take issue with survivors d/cing after seeing a hidden offering or "unbalanced" add ons, then they're hypocrites for dodging survivors with what they "think are unbalanced". Players should be able to use the items they want-and have rightfully earned-without fear of anyone deciding "not to play with them".
  • Well_Placed_HexTotem
    Well_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    I will tunnel and hard patrol anyone who last second switches, and then when they die first with at most a couple thousand BP scored I will message them asking if the last second swap was worth it. Im yet to have anyone say yes.

    Gotta fight toxicity with toxicity. 
  • pauloandrade22
    pauloandrade22 Member Posts: 697

    @Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
    I will tunnel and hard patrol anyone who last second switches, and then when they die first with at most a couple thousand BP scored I will message them asking if the last second swap was worth it. Im yet to have anyone say yes.

    Gotta fight toxicity with toxicity. 

    Two wrongs dont make a right. Just saying. I will probably do the same tho.

  • pauloandrade22
    pauloandrade22 Member Posts: 697

    @Visionmaker said:
    Orion said:

    @Visionmaker said:

    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Killers will just DC with last-second switches or make sure last-second switchers die first and as annoyingly as possible. I'd rather they lobby dodge.

    Trying to force people to play games they consider unfun will never work. Survivors need to get over themselves and accept that Killers are not going to play with them if they use things that are unbalanced.

    D/Cs are punished and offer BP to the opposing side. Lobby dodging is sanctioned, unlimited, effortless, and onesided.

    Killers need to understand that it works both ways. If they take issue with survivors d/cing after seeing a hidden offering or "unbalanced" add ons, then they're hypocrites for dodging survivors with what they "think are unbalanced". Players should be able to use the items they want-and have rightfully earned-without fear of anyone deciding "not to play with them".

    "PTSD of the last flashlight squad resurges".

  • vampire_toothy
    vampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    @Visionmaker said:
    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Personally, I have no issue when people just bring in the items they intend on using to begin with. It's not toxic by just bringing it in, what does however become toxic is when people last second switch and then show negative behavior ingame each and every time this happens. If you want to use something, come in with it the first time. Sure we should do something about constant dodging as well, the bigger problem in this picture is unavoidable toxicity which is not good under any circumstances at all.> @Visionmaker said:

    @Visionmaker said:

    D/Cs are punished and offer BP to the opposing side. Lobby dodging is sanctioned, unlimited, effortless, and onesided.

    Killers need to understand that it works both ways. If they take issue with survivors d/cing after seeing a hidden offering or "unbalanced" add ons, then they're hypocrites for dodging survivors with what they "think are unbalanced". Players should be able to use the items they want-and have rightfully earned-without fear of anyone deciding "not to play with them".

    Problem here is that the type of people who last second switch often attempt to be as toxic as possible more times than they would just want to be able to use their items. From my own experience I've noticed considerably different behavior from the players that bring in what they want by default and the ones that last second switch. In addition you have to keep in mind that last second switching also negates a big reason for the lobby in the first place. The difference here is also that this is a problem that can be solved while dodging lobbies cannot (although it can be punished). But I also wouldn't go as far as to completely punish lobby dodging either because let's say you went up against a toxic group in the previous game and then they show up again, I don't see the majority of players wanting to put up with the same annoyance yet again for another game or two in a row.

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  • Grey87
    Grey87 Member Posts: 346

    It's not a problem though.
    You can easily avoid it. If they all don't ready up till it's like ~10sec left then just dodge.

  • pauloandrade22
    pauloandrade22 Member Posts: 697

    @Grey87 said:
    It's not a problem though.
    You can easily avoid it. If they all don't ready up till it's like ~10sec left then just dodge.

    Or Neo facecamp them . I prefer dodging though.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    The problem (and why last second switching even exists) is because killers are cry babies and dodge any lobby with items in it. They also dodge depending on clothing of survivors, it's hilarious - buck up and get good.

  • Milo
    Milo Member Posts: 7,383

    I just hate when i can't bring a flashlight cause i get dodged. I just want to use an item i was given.
    I don't like being Iridescent Headed but it happens what can i do? It's a add-on that was given. Same for moris

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @Milo said:
    I just hate when i can't bring a flashlight cause i get dodged. I just want to use an item i was given.
    I don't like being Iridescent Headed but it happens what can i do? It's a add-on that was given. Same for moris

    Blame people who use flashlights to be abusive towards the Killer.

    Cue people saying it's perfectly normal to follow the Killer around the entire trial just to blind him at every opportunity, loop him for the entire trial, and that it's the Killer's fault in the first place.

  • vampire_toothy
    vampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    @Grey87 said:
    It's not a problem though.
    You can easily avoid it. If they all don't ready up till it's like ~10sec left then just dodge.

    Actually, it is a problem no matter how you look at it. Anybody who falls for it has had a feature rendered entirely useless, a feature intended to prepare ahead of time which allows you to setup a build based off of the information you're given. The reason survivors do it is usually to avoid perks such as franklin's demise. The fact that it can happen is an issue, especially when it can be abused to make the games of newer and older players miserable even if that game results in a win.

    @SenzuDuck said:
    The problem (and why last second switching even exists) is because killers are cry babies and dodge any lobby with items in it. They also dodge depending on clothing of survivors, it's hilarious - buck up and get good.

    Want to know what else is funny? Last second switching so you don't get certain perks get used on you. I agree that dodging over clothing is usually pretty silly and definitely isn't necessary, infact the only time I agree with dodging is to avoid toxic people you've ran into in the past. Fixing last second switches is not a matter of 'getting good' but rather fixing an exploit in the lobby system in general. Of course newer players are going to dodge items while more experienced players are not going to care if you have one unless you suddenly just last second switch.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Visionmaker said:
    And they'll simply get dodged if they don't.

    One problem exists because of another. They shouldn't be addressed separately.

    Because DCing is better than lobby dodging.
    Sometimes I really wonder....