Self Care - Why Removing or Nerfing it would be good for the game
Comments
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@Zanfer said:
There are many ways of countering self-care:
Nurse's Calling,
Thanatophobia,
Sloppy Butcher,
Coulrophobia,
Dying Light
Perks that indirectly counter self-care:
Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers),
Make Your Choice,
Stridor,
BBQ and Chili,
Devour Hope,
NOEDNon of the above is a "counter" to Self Care.
Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer.
And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.0 -
@Wolf74 said:
@Zanfer said:
There are many ways of countering self-care:
Nurse's Calling,
Thanatophobia,
Sloppy Butcher,
Coulrophobia,
Dying Light
Perks that indirectly counter self-care:
Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers),
Make Your Choice,
Stridor,
BBQ and Chili,
Devour Hope,
NOEDNon of the above is a "counter" to Self Care.
Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer.
And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.They counter it because it does take longer yet hindering the effect of how useful self-care is. I have won games due to self-caring taking to long because of sloppy with make your choice being a thing while slugging..
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A good counter to SC is to down them before they can use it.Wolf74 said:@Zanfer said:
There are many ways of countering self-care:
Nurse's Calling,
Thanatophobia,
Sloppy Butcher,
Coulrophobia,
Dying Light
Perks that indirectly counter self-care:
Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers),
Make Your Choice,
Stridor,
BBQ and Chili,
Devour Hope,
NOEDNon of the above is a "counter" to Self Care.
Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer.
And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.2 -
@WhateverIGuess said:
Soon running will become a crutch aswell, people are really starting to run out of things to complain about.People (killers in particular) complain about the survivors, mostly because killers are weak.
Survivors complain about the OP killers, because they don't play killers much, and don't know how hard it is.1 -
and yeah. Survivors are not people. :
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@powerbats said:
@Vadim239 said:
and yeah. Survivors are not people. :Yet neither are killers so what's the point of saying survivors aren't people? You can't claim killers are people then turn around and say survivors aren't.
That is a joke. Don't take it seriously. I play killer for 4 days and now I'm concerned that survivors are mostly offensive, teabagging, and annoying af.
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@Vietfox said:
Wolf74 said:@Zanfer said:
There are many ways of countering self-care:
Nurse's Calling,
Thanatophobia,
Sloppy Butcher,
Coulrophobia,
Dying Light
Perks that indirectly counter self-care:
Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers),
Make Your Choice,
Stridor,
BBQ and Chili,
Devour Hope,
NOED
Non of the above is a "counter" to Self Care.
Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer.
And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.
A good counter to SC is to down them before they can use it.
Which is called "tunneling", which is another thing survivor will complain about.
And in a lot of situations tunneling will hurt the killer.0 -
@Vadim239 said:
@powerbats said:
@Vadim239 said:
and yeah. Survivors are not people. :Yet neither are killers so what's the point of saying survivors aren't people? You can't claim killers are people then turn around and say survivors aren't.
That is a joke. Don't take it seriously. I play killer for 4 days and now I'm concerned that survivors are mostly offensive, teabagging, and annoying af.
Oh I know, I was just ribbing you is all. I forgot to put the
at end0 -
Tunneling is to focus on the same player till dies, not hitting them before they can use SC.Wolf74 said:@Vietfox said:
Wolf74 said:@Zanfer said:
There are many ways of countering self-care:
Nurse's Calling,
Thanatophobia,
Sloppy Butcher,
Coulrophobia,
Dying Light
Perks that indirectly counter self-care:
Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers),
Make Your Choice,
Stridor,
BBQ and Chili,
Devour Hope,
NOED
Non of the above is a "counter" to Self Care.
Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer.
And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.
A good counter to SC is to down them before they can use it.
Which is called "tunneling", which is another thing survivor will complain about.
And in a lot of situations tunneling will hurt the killer.2 -
@Vietfox said:
Wolf74 said:@Vietfox said:
Wolf74 said:
@Zanfer said: There are many ways of countering self-care: Nurse's Calling, Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher, Coulrophobia, Dying Light Perks that indirectly counter self-care: Monitor and Abuse (on specific killers), Make Your Choice, Stridor, BBQ and Chili, Devour Hope, NOED Non of the above is a "counter" to Self Care. Nothing is preventing SC from getting used, it only make it take a little longer. And also one hits aren't counter either, most of them are tied to very specific conditions and have counterplay in themself.
A good counter to SC is to down them before they can use it.
Which is called "tunneling", which is another thing survivor will complain about.
And in a lot of situations tunneling will hurt the killer.
Tunneling is to focus on the same player till dies, not hitting them before they can use SC.
You definition is not the one that is generally used in this forum by the majority of survivor.
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@Gibberish said:
@Peanits said:
Honestly, I don't think it matters. I have zero issues finding another survivor to heal me. Even back when I did run self care, someone would usually show up mid heal to finish it off faster. Two survivors can heal each other in the same time as they could heal themselves with self care.So if anything, it's base heal speed we're talking about. I could go either way on increasing that.
Its not just the speed thats the factor here, its Survivor grouping and efficentcy.
Self Care
-One Survivor not working on gens
-Can be done anywhere at any time
-Killer only finds 1 SurvivorTeam Heal
-Two or more Survivors not working on gens
-Need to spend time finding and travelling to another Survivor
-Killer can find 2 or more Survivors simultaneouslyIts a world of difference that SC makes.
These are some of the key reasons that I think a lot of people overlook with Self Care. Of course Medkits provide a safer self-heal but they are limited in use and require a resource investment from the player.
This has been a good thread and I've changed my opinion since my original post. After playing more with Self Care myself here is what I feel:
- Self Care does take a while to complete but I still think it's a bit too quick
- You should have to start from the beginning if you are interrupted - to stop silly healing in front of killers, and also ensure you are punished for being injured by having to run off somewhere safe for the full duration of the heal. It should work just like team heals in this regard.
- Like the poster above says, a big issue to me with Self Care is that instead of taking up 2 players time it takes up 1 players time. That's a big reason I think it should take longer.
Good news is, the devs are already considering changes. Now I have a bit more time, here is what the devs said in the Q&A about their suggestions for healing:
- In order to slow the game down, time to heal for normal heals will increase by 4 seconds
- Self Care as a result will increase by 6 seconds (or it may have been 8 seconds I forget)
- Devs are considering having Self Care healing bar regression over time or uninterrupted heal
I think the healing changes will be really good for the game as it not only slows the game down but gives the Killer a few more precious seconds to locate healing survivors. It should hopefully promote Survivors having to find safer places to heal. With Self Care taking longer as well, there should be more incentive to find teammates to heal you up. I still think that the bar should also reset if you interrupt the heal.
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I’m going to have to pass on removing sc. I think it’s fine and serves it’s purpose. I prefer to heal myself most of the time. I have trust issues.1
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Let's remove all the perks from both sides and that is the way to balance this game0
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@Gibberish said:
@Peanits said:
Honestly, I don't think it matters. I have zero issues finding another survivor to heal me. Even back when I did run self care, someone would usually show up mid heal to finish it off faster. Two survivors can heal each other in the same time as they could heal themselves with self care.So if anything, it's base heal speed we're talking about. I could go either way on increasing that.
Its not just the speed thats the factor here, its Survivor grouping and efficentcy.
Self Care
-One Survivor not working on gens
-Can be done anywhere at any time
-Killer only finds 1 SurvivorTeam Heal
-Two or more Survivors not working on gens
-Need to spend time finding and travelling to another Survivor
-Killer can find 2 or more Survivors simultaneouslyIts a world of difference that SC makes.
It's all relative. There's loads of situations where one is going to be better than the other. In my experience, I could spend 20 seconds running around looking for someone to heal me, or I could use a perk slot to do it myself in 24 seconds. Sure, I'd be saving an extra 8 seconds, but is that worth a perk slot to me? I'd say no. There's also something to be said about grouping up with survivors anyway to work on generators. After they heal you, you can stick together and head to a generator. They might also need healing too.
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SC speeds healing up. Period.
Anybody telling otherwise is unable to do simple math.2 people injured can a) heal each other or b) heal side by side using SC and need the same amount of time.
But they can do it without ever the need to waste time searching for one another.
They can play the classic ping pong with the killer, they just run away from all gens and the killer has to either tunnel one and has to give up the gens or he tries to pressure the gens and the injured will heal up asap, because he just needs to stop wherever he just happens to be and start rubbing his belly.For example: all 3 tank a hit to bodyblock a hook and the victim gets free, all just burst of in different directions and the killer has to choose ONE to follow, while all 3 heal up on their own. By the time he downs the injured guy all other are already healed up and ready to bodyblock and tank a hit, leaving the killer with no progress towards his objective (sacrificing).
Without SC and 2 survivor remaining it would make sense to switch targets after a hit, but not if 84% of all survivor run SC. But still survivor complain about getting "tunneled", but claim that SC is is ok, because the killer should down you. #########?
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Well @Vietfox is not the majority of the survivors, so you can't compare @Vietfox to the other survivors. Also sloppy and make your choice are direct counters because if it takes them to long to heal they are not doing gens and self-care will take to long so the killer can find them before they finish their self-care if the killer plays it right.
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i dont know if they will nerf it but they cant just remove perks especially since its a claudette teachable perk so they would need to find perk to replace it.
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It would also a some what non direct nerf to nurses calling
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Was that a compliment? AwwwZanfer said:Well @Vietfox is not the majority of the survivors, so you can't compare @Vietfox to the other survivors. Also sloppy and make your choice are direct counters because if it takes them to long to heal they are not doing gens and self-care will take to long so the killer can find them before they finish their self-care if the killer plays it right.
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Their change in the Q&A video sounds fine along with recovery and sabotage.
Regression is not the way to go simply because it's not fun.
You could remove Self Care but I'm not sure you'd like the result.
More SWF and even faster games? Yeah, sure.
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