[Developer Update] The "Eyrie of Crows" map is only survivor sided? No.
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There is more to the game then purely killing and surviving but at the end everything leads to that. Cause that is the end goal.
Having a high killcount means something is working right and again i don't believe it's the specific condemned playstyle that needs specific addons and didn't get traction early enough to have this huge of a impact
The argument of a handfull of elite sadekko players is also flawed. A minority of pro saddeko players are not going to bumb the numbers that much unless the mayority of the people who say she's weak don't actually play her. In which case they don't actually know what they are talking about
The problem with how the community sees Saddeko is that they view it purelly against comp squads
The reason i believe Saddeko (and plague too for that matter) is doing so well is cause she has a relativily low skill floor while the skill floor to play against her is in comparrison high
As opposed by Blight and Nurse who have a high skill floor
And that isn't a bad thing. Not every killer can be competitively viable, and they shouldn't need to be
If Saddeko does well against the mayority of the players then she doesn't desperatly need help. No matter how much of a struggle the top 1% is
Could she use some buffs and changes to the condemned playstyle? Yeah she could. Could artist and dredge recieve some tweaks? Yeah sure
Enough to delay stuff like the solo icons we are getting now? Or the well deserved nurse nerf?
I think you of all people would agree what has the higher priority
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LMAO that was a good one XD. seriously you can't do fine in a map like that when you are aganist decent survivors (or survivors that will play safely... they can do it since it has too many pallets). If you win in a map like the game with those killers, it's not because you are good, but because the survivors that you faced were EXTREMELY bad
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I'm personally hoping this is the first step to fixing too big maps and unbalanced maps. Red forest is too big for M1 killers, badham all variations needs fixing and garden of ...pain has too many safe pallets that link together to jungle gyms and the main house needs tuning. We can't expect them to fix everything at once.
This is a good first step i hope you guys keep going and fixing things. Map shouldnt be killer or survivor sided but neutral and somewhat balanced so both sides can shine. Right now too many maps sadly are survivor sided with ridiculous loops and main houses.
Eyrie is just horrible and im glad they are hopefully fixing it first. Survivors are burning a lot of offers to go into this map and i wonder why. This will of course change survivors now burning offers to badham, garden or whatever else is their sided, but oh my i hate eyrie.
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Why stop there Midwich and Dead Dawg are killer sided, nerf them, you know for balance. you nerf a survivor sided map nerf a killer sided map.
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They can only rework 1 realm at a time, please wait.
There are other maps like Suffo pit that extremely survivor side in middle, but there are multiple dead zones. Those map need slight rework on title placement, remove a gym in middle and put it on deadzone instead.
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They go by data. Eyrie had a lower kill rate than average. If Midwich and Dead Dawg had a higher kill rate than average, maybe they would.
Midwich could be killer sided if there were ever any hooks within range.
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I wouldnt call them killer sided maps. They are more killer friendly but i think those 2 maps are probably the most balanced maps in the game. Midwitch still has lots of pallets, but very strong endgame doors, and saloon main house is a pain. Lots of tall grass to hide too. Good thing is the map is small.
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Its the sudden darkness? Does any other games cause something similar? Just curious
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In my opinion... it's those pallets... the pallets are survivor sided! I hate the pallets! If they could just remove like 10 of them, I'd be fantastic.
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My best guess is it's how the darkness is overlayed onto the screen causing serious massive eye strain that just kills me.
And no, no other game causes it except DBD vs Dredge. Paladins has a similar effect in Maeve's ultimate ability but it doesn't affect me like Nightfall does
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I am all for Dead Dawg be a bigger map with a couple more tiles
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Don't worry, we definitely aren't just looking at stats. How something feels is also very important and not something that you can learn from a number. Though it is ultimately something we need to keep in mind. To give an example, if a Killer is one of the most deadly but perceived as weak, we'd need to be careful about how we approach them. Tweaking them in the wrong way can easily push them past the point of being strong and into frustratingly OP territory.
For what it's worth, when we do look at stats, we also have far more detailed data than general kill rates. We're able to breakdown how certain add-ons affect a Killer's success, even across various MMR ranges. It can reveal a lot of detail about specific playstyles that might be stronger than others. It's entirely possible that a certain set of add-ons are contributing to a high kill rate, for example, which might tell us that those add-ons could be toned down while the Killer itself could get some buffs/QOL updates.
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Probably the biggest issue with Midwich is the door placements when it comes to balance. I'd consider Midwich a boring and frustrating map (most loops are pretty safe, few of them so the best strategy is to hold W, long corridors so it's just hold forwards since you can't break LoS, hooks are inconsistently placed, generators can be hard to find and hallway generators are very difficult to complete), but the actual level itself may be reasonably balanced when you consider loop potential and killer presence if not slightly killer sided. If hook placements were better, it would be solidly killer sided just on those alone.
The gates are really what make Midwich one of the most killer sided maps in my opinion. If the killer plays ruthlessly, the endgame is basically +1 kill on Midwich due to how close the gates are.
But the gate placements are there because of the structure of the map and can't really be changed at all without changing the entirety of a licensed map.
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They could easily give it the RPD treatment and widen the main corridors, and expand the central courtyard a little. This would push the exits further away from each other too. With the map made slightly bigger (maybe blocking off certain areas upstairs to make up for it) then there would be room for more consistent hook placements.
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like when are you updating the swamp and red forest?
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So in other words, if people complain loud enough, you will change something whether it’s right or wrong.
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I do like Nemesis on The Game.
If Tier II doesn't destroy every pallet in there, corralling with your zombies is your second best tactic
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I'm not quite sure how you got that from that message. The Nurse was a hot topic and we have no shortage of proof and strong arguments showing that she was performing far too well, especially when certain perks and add-ons were being used. For us to ignore the many people raising valid complaints would be silly.
Trying to insert a strawman as an "in other words" never ends well. I'm not your enemy, if you disagree with the changes, tell me. I'm here to pass on your opinion to the team. But intentionally misconstruing what was said isn't going to help anyone.
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lol
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It’s not the only survivor sided map, but it is one that is a bigger problem than the others. The other maps are closer to being balanced and really depend on the killer being played….I’m a Trapper main, as beautiful as Eeyrie is, it’s hell for Trapper.
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By your own metrics, Nurse is not a top performer. Even at high MMR, her kill rate is not significant. Again, this is from the data you released. How are these nerfs anything other than a reaction to complaining?
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We have stated many times that those stats are very broad and do not paint a full picture and should never be used on their own to form an opinion. Nurse, having a very high skill ceiling, tends to fall much lower on those charts because of that. For every crazy good Nurse out there, there's dozens more who are still learning her who will drag that kill rate down. Even among the top 5%, there's still a big disparity between the very best and those who are still learning purely because she's such a difficult Killer to master.
I can't stress it enough, those charts are not detailed enough to form an opinion or argument. We do not use those charts to make balance decisions either. They might show us where an issue might be, but you absolutely need to dig deeper to know for sure.
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Its a Wonder that they touched nurse again. For me the Change ist fine but showed me again that the Team ist balance over perks and ignored Long Time that her blink is a m1 ability. Which we're easily to fix.
And blight how Long need they adress finally His hug Tech ...
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All four of the killers you mentioned had changes made to them after release tho???
like ???
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-"The stats show that The Game is close to 50/50, for all killers."
What stats gathered by whom under what conditions?
Throw out all middle/low ranked play data. Only consider the top 20% of players who are very comfortable with the game and most certainly in the "skilled" or better category.
Compare all killers that can easily ignore the pallets vs those that can't. On one side you have killers like Nurse/Blight/Nemesis/Demo and on the other side you have killers like Pig, Michael Myers, Doctor, Clown, etc.
Do the killers that "ignore" pallets have a significant difference in terms of advantage in win rate on the game? I think the answer is most certainly yes.
We could do the same thing for the map you picked as being a fair map- Azarov's. Take all the killers with no mobility on one side and all the killers with mobility on the other. Do movement based killers have an advantage on a map that guarantees a non mobile killer loses if their three gen is broken? I can tell you absolutely the answer is yes.
The problem with statistics is that you can almost always cook data to tell a story that is not entirely true. If you throw out low tier play I suspect win rates on the game plummet. I suspect SWF groups that pick the game have a big advantage against most M1 killers. I know that I win most of the games I actually play when survivors use "the game" offering and I am playing a killer like Nemesis. I'm not allowed to explain that statement better but you can hopefully read between the lines.
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There is one incredible vault that's pretty easily accessible. But it's more the sheer density of amazing pallets on a small map, meaning that it's bonkers strong for Stakeout.
I'm curious as to how much of this kill rate comes down to either: '1 solo queue player didn't realize they started with a video' (I see this...almost every game someone brings this) or that obnoxious condemned build.
Because outside of this, there's no reason for Sadako's rates to be as high as they are.
That said...
I don't think they said 'only'. And please, in the name of small fluffy kittens, let Garden of Joy be next. Or Badham.
Haddonfield is honestly okay now.
Killers that need love:
- Pig is fine.
- Sadako...yes, but she'll also need some nerfs to the condemned build.
- Freddy - yes. At least an addon pass.
- Twins - absolutely.
- Myers...yes, but nerf TSP.
- You forgot Trapper and Demo...as did BHVR.
Aside from that, there are some killers that need an addon pass but otherwise it's okay.
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