Visible MMR please
If you are so afraid to show MMR in the lobby, you can hide it during the queue and after finding a match too so that no one leaves seeing an unfair MMR. You can also show every month what MMR we have achieved in game so that players don't abuse the system by finding out after each match how their MMR has changed. You can also make it so that it is possible to find out the approximate MMR of our killers and survivors through your website, which is updated periodically. Please, I really want to know what MMR I am on at the moment, please give more information to the players
Comments
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I don't think this would lead to anything healthy. Even if the MMR wasn't revealed in the lobby, players would use 3rd party software to data mine the information and then lobby dodge. But let's just say for arguments sake that this isn't possible. There is still no upside and a lot of downside.
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I actually agree with this. I never play the competitive mode in games with an assigned rank. Gold, bronze, platinum Grand Master whatever.
But in this one I'm forced into the ranked mode with no idea where I rank. If I have to play the ranked mode i would like to know where I stand. I don't have to see anyone else's, just make it visible to me somewhere.
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Hunt showdown has a good alternative, you can go to the settings to hide your mmr at any time, so if you want to see it, you see it, if you don’t want it, you can easily hide it Win win, as for me
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All third-party programs are banned by anti-cheat, if they dare to use it, they will do it at their own risk, because they can easily get a ban for this. We are discussing legitimate things here, not cheats, please do not compare them
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Yes, even in mobile dbd the rank is constantly visible, and in general in all online games you know approximately what mmr you are in, in dbd everything is just so blind, in the game there is a lot of information about everything
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Yes, very well noted.
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You really wanting to know your MMR isn't a good reason to enable it, you have to make a good argument why it would improve dbd.
If it does not have a good reason to improve dbd, Why add it? Its rough out here man.
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Uff, why is the dbd community like this and always negative about all useful changes in the game?! All asymmetric games and other online games show mmr/rank what is DBD special in this regard? Let the players get information over time they will get used to it the devs should not indulge the players. It's just mmr, i'm not asking to show killers during the match loading screen like in mobile dbd
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why is the dbd community like this and always negative about all useful changes in the game?!
I apologize for coming off very bluntly to your idea, not what I intended, You may not have seen this discussed before on here the many times as I have. This is why I ask for reasons and clarifications to have a better chance to challenge the statusquo. You seem assume its useful, which is fine but Its been discussed here on the forum before, let me grab you a summary so we may examine and consider any of the negative drawbacks. ———
The developers of Dead by Daylight (bHVR) have explained their decision to avoid adding visible MMR (Matchmaking Rating) for several reasons:
- Toxicity & Pressure: Visible MMR could create unnecessary pressure on players to focus solely on their rating, potentially leading to more toxicity within the community. Players might become more competitive, leading to negative behaviors such as blaming teammates, taunting, or harassment after matches.
- Casual vs. Competitive Play: Dead by Daylight is primarily designed as a casual, fun experience, not a highly competitive one. Visible MMR might push players to treat every match like a serious competition, which could ruin the more relaxed and immersive gameplay experience that many players enjoy.
- Distorted Gameplay Behavior: If players can see their MMR, they might begin to "game the system" by playing in ways that prioritize winning or manipulating MMR over actually enjoying or exploring different strategies. This could encourage unhealthy practices like camping, tunneling, or farming points instead of playing for fun.
- Mental Health Concerns: MMR systems in games can lead to stress and frustration, especially if players feel their rank doesn't reflect their skill or performance. Visible MMR could lead to players obsessing over their rank, feeling demotivated, or suffering from burnout if they experience losing streaks.
- Avoidance of Meta-Gaming: With no visible MMR, players are less focused on who is the "better" player in terms of rating and more focused on playing the game itself. This prevents the emergence of meta-gaming behavior where players focus too much on numbers, matchmaking, or rank manipulation.
- Skill Disparity Concerns: If MMR was visible, players might complain more often about matchmaking fairness or skill gaps, even though the system is designed to balance these factors behind the scenes. Visible MMR could make players more critical of match outcomes, leading to dissatisfaction and complaints about balance or team compositions.
In summary, bHVR wants to preserve the fun, immersive, and relatively casual nature of Dead by Daylight by avoiding the competitive pressure and potential toxicity that visible MMR systems often create in other games.
——— Hope you enjoyed the summary; Anyway you may want to touch of atleast some of these, cause these are the concerns your idea goes up against. No Im not just here to poop on your idea, I want bHVR to do things for a good reason and the best way to discover a good reason is to apply critique to the ideas, a little scrutiny that might expose some flaws in bad idea or show the robustness of a good idea. In Ernest I want your idea to be as good as it can be.
For myself, the reasons bHVR has laid out in the past has convinced me to have no desire for visible MMR.
Hopefully now you understand why I ask.
Now, take a read again of the reasons and tell me if you think bHVR are right or wrong? and for what reason they are so.9 -
This is all a fake problem though. Many other PvP games have a ranked mode that shows MMR, and it’s completely fine. This game could easily have a ranked mode with visible MMR.
We already know from lights out and chaos shuffle, that the game can easily support multiple game modes, so we should be fine with a separate ranked mode.
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Calling reasons fake problems is not very convincing,
if you wanna show they are wrong or unwarranted concerns you need to provide reasons and argument instead of dismissal.Once you provide a proper debunking, we can discuss it which will be far more convincing and then more people can chime in too.
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I don't understand why you are so serious? If you think that dbd is a toxic community and you don't want mmr to be visible, then how are you better than them? We are all here for visible mmr because it won't make things worse if according to you, the dbd community is already toxic, it won't make it any more toxic.
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My reasoning is there literally are a bunch of PvP games, with visible MMR, and it’s not a major overwhelming problem.
You can go to their forums, and their reddits, and read through thousands of complaints about various game stuff, and visible MMR isn’t one of their major problems.
Visible MMR is 100% fine, if a game has ranked and unranked modes. If someone doesn’t want to worry about MMR, they can play unranked. If someone cares about MMR, they can play ranked. Having a ranked mode is a completely normal feature of many PvP games.
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But if they did that, then the vast majority of "high mmr players" would see that they aren't actually in high mmr and I don't think they could take such a heavy blow.
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If you think that dbd is a toxic community and you don't want mmr to be visible, then how are you better than them?
I have no idea what you mean here. When did I say dbd is toxic? Where did I say Im better than someone? huh?
it won't make it any more toxic.
You can always go more toxic. Why should we tempt fate? I honestly don't want to.
While it's true that visible MMR may not be a frequent complaint in forums or community discussions, that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't contributing to issues like toxicity. Players often focus on the immediate, visible outcomes of frustration—such as poor team dynamics, toxic behavior, or bad matchmaking—without always identifying the underlying systems that might fuel these reactions.
Just because visible MMR isn’t the most vocalized concern doesn’t mean its removal wouldn’t be beneficial. In many cases, systems like visible rankings can subtly increase pressure, competitiveness, and frustration, which can lead to negative behavior. Players may not directly link these toxic experiences to MMR visibility, but that doesn’t negate its influence. In fact, addressing elements that create an environment conducive to toxic behavior can have a positive impact, even if players haven't explicitly identified or requested those changes.
In short, the absence of direct complaints about visible MMR doesn't imply it's not a factor in toxicity; it simply suggests that the focus tends to be on the more immediate effects of that pressure. Proactively addressing these deeper causes can improve the overall player experience.
Furthermore it's true that in many PvP games, ranked and unranked modes offer players a choice between competitive play and a more relaxed experience, this comparison doesn't fully apply to Dead by Daylight for a couple of reasons.
First, Dead by Daylight, as it currently stands, doesn’t have a clear separation between ranked and unranked modes, meaning all players are subjected to the same matchmaking system. The absence of a designated "unranked" mode means there isn’t an obvious escape from the pressure of MMR for those who simply want to enjoy casual, stress-free matches. Introducing visible MMR without the option for players to opt out would likely increase the competitiveness and pressure across the board, which could, in turn, lead to more toxic behavior.
Second, even if a ranked mode were introduced at some point in the future, Dead by Daylight’s design and gameplay are distinct from traditional PvP games. It’s an asymmetrical game focused on immersion and creativity, not purely competition. Visible MMR could detract from this core experience by pushing players to focus too heavily on ranking, instead of enjoying the unique tension and strategy that make the game special.
In short, while ranked modes work well in traditional PvP games where competition is the main draw, Dead by Daylight's current structure and more casual, immersive focus make visible MMR less appropriate and potentially damaging to the experience.
So I ask you the same question as I asked above, Why should I want bHVR to take this risk?
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I’m not reading all that. Ranked modes are a normal part of many PvP games, and if visible MMR really was controversial, then we would see way more complaints about it for the other PvP games.
BHVR should just try adding a ranked mode as an experiment, and if it doesn’t work out they can remove it.
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To counter a point you kinda need to understand the point don't you?…
If you want a short butchered summary (as we understand, correct us if we're wrong): Just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean its not a part of a problem. Visibility would increase pressure and toxicity. DBD is different than most PVP games and is more casual, visible MMR would detract from the casual experience.
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The game could have a ranked and an unranked mode, so people can have their casual experience in the unranked mode.
And if a ranked mode has more pressure and toxicity, and players don’t want to deal with that, they can play the unranked mode.
Having a ranked mode means that players can choose what type of experience they want.
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I wrote that it is possible to do so that changes in MMR are shown every month, there is no need to show how it has changed after each match, it certainly won't make things worse
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I would heavily disagree with that statement. Any game that has a ranking system encounters all of the issues Emeal has described.
Games like Counter Strike, Rainbow Six, Call Of Duty have very toxic communities that constantly assess and dodge players based on rank.
Games like League of Legends, Fifa and Battlefront see people encouraged to spend money on powering themselves up with stronger builds and loadouts or buying flavour of the season characters, and are filled with just as much toxicity.
Games like Overwatch and Sea of Thieves had numerous issues surrounding the boredom and staleness or their metas and had to comepletely rework them to keep their playerbase (or die trying). Sea of Theives straight up removed it's ranking system for PvP.
All of these issues are already reasonably prevalent in DBD already without MMR being visible... I can only see it getting worse if it were made visible…
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And this unranked mode would be used as testing grounds for the ones going into ranked. People would be doing their damnedest in both modes keeping the pressure while killing the casual experience. That's our first thought, we might be able to think up more, but we don't particularly care enough since you need to rebuff Emeal, not us.
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But it keeps the same problem. It doesn't fix the problem.
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We have no plans to make MMR a visual number. MMR is there purely to produce fairer matches and matchmaking you with players around the same levels, not a number that you should strive for.
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This game used to have visible MMR! This game literally used to be ranked mode only, and we literally saw everyone's MMR in all their various colors. Has everyone forgotten this? We used to have this!
And in fact, there was LESS drama back then, when there was visible MMR. It was way better than now, where the forums are constantly flooded with complaints that "MMR doesn't work", and people declaring what MMR they think they have, and people declaring what MMR they think other people have, and people making all sorts of other theories and accusations of the MMR system. We have a constant mess of drama specifically because MMR is hidden from us.
If we got visible MMR back, it certainly won't be a worse situation than what we have now.
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I would actually disagree there, at the time when we had ranks showing we were inundated with comments from players complaining about the fact that they may have been in purple ranks and were matched with someone in red ranks.
Problem is, ranks were never about skill - they were always about time spent, which is the same as Grades today.
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I've always wondered if that matchmaking gap problem ever got fixed, or if part of the reason we can't see MMR now, is because there are still a lot of matches where at least 1 player has an MMR that's way different from the rest.
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But you can think about it, I don't understand why you immediately write that there are no plans for this😭
Why not release a test update with mmr display, you guys need to be a little bolder in terms of changes! After all, in a dbd mobile, the rank is always visible and knowing the rank, we already have an idea of what kind of match it will be, is that bad? I'm silent that in the mobile dbd, the killer is displayed during the loading screen and still no one closes the game when they see, for example, Legion
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Exactly, no one complains in dbd mobile that the rank is visible, on the contrary, it even shows what ranks you will play against, for example, if you are rank 5 survivor, the game writes that you will play against ranks 3-8. I don't understand what the problem is in displaying MMR, I think if it was visible, many newbies will come to the game, veterans will make content about it and we will see that they are really in high MMR and not smurfing MMR off stream
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Seeing MMR would be great for all the competitive people at heart (like me). It gives sense of accomplishment and "bragging rights".
Unfortunately, I don't think it's good idea to do in DBD. There are way too many "flawed" things for visible MMR (or the game being truly competitive) to give you more sense of accomplishment, rather then pure frustration.
1, 60% kill rate is inherently unfair in every competitive game. You can't just give freebies to one side and be OK with it especially when both sides compete with each other (this can be partially mitigated with getting higher score for each escape then kill, but it's still a problem)
2, tunneling exists which means if killer wants someone to loose MMR, he will most likely loose. This will create extra layer of sourness/stress
3, Personally I consider this game to feel bad when fully optimized for wins. The best tactics for win are actually the most boring ones - killers need to proxy-camp and tunnel survivors out while survivors need to genrush without much interaction with killers. Trying to "force" more people into this boring parts of game doesn't seem like a good idea.
4, This game is still unbalanced and it feels extra bad when the match is decided for you by outside factors (extreme examples to illustrate the point: as survivor - killer taking you to Haddonfield and on the other side say as mirror Meyers finding yourself in some open map like say Rotten fields).
5, MMR would need to become very strict - otherwise point 4. And there are already a lot of complaints (by quite a big chunk of players) about sweaty matches.
6, the game is also too buggy for this. Example like lags/VPN giving that big of an advantage would ruin the experience even more.
To conclude - if the game changed a lot of problematic things, showing MMR would be actually good idea. But not in a current state of DBD. And if all those things got changed… Could we still call it DBD? The game would be vastly different. That might not be the problem (personally I don't play this game for a long time now), but it's quite a risk for the game itself if the change would bring more players then it would alienate.
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We already have most of these things happening currently.
I think the big one is number 6 where people are feeling like MMR doesn’t work accurately or fairly and there’s no way of knowing, just ‘trust us the system is designed to balance these factors and it’s working perfectly like every other aspect of the game promise’.A lot of games feel like they have a mix of new players, average players, and god tier players. It doesn’t feel like it’s working for a lot of people and games don’t feel fair, and hiding the only way to know if they are fair makes people think the fact they aren’t is covering that up - in the name of shorter queue times for the players at MMR ratings where there are less players.
You might argue speculation but that is what comes with hiding things. Especially in a game that’s constantly got it’s share of problems and unresolved issues, technical or otherwise. Especially when everyone knows the MMR system is only based on a binary kill/escape metric and individual skill or anything that happened during the game has no impact. It should matter wether a killer got 12 books with 5 gens left compared to a 4 hook 4K with NoeD during the EGC. It should matter if one person ran the killer for 5 gens then died as their MMR will go down and the other 3 go up despite them being the only reason they escaped.
The current system is wholly unsatisfactory and hiding everything doesn’t change that just sows more discontent.
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That's the issue though. Quantifying skill by measuring the outcome is inaccurate.
On one hand you could have a killer that plays Blight on his best map with his 3 best perks and 2 best addons and only gets 1 hook in end game with NOED. If this person manages to successfully camp that hook, that's a kill with only 1 hook (technically 3 hook states). However, if a perkless pallet Freddy finds himself on Garden of Joy and gets 8 hooks but no kills against the same survivors, the game would decide that the Blight was actually more skilled than the Freddy.
This doesn't seem very representative of actual skill. Of course this is a rather extreme example but for the sake of the argument it should suffice.
This also leads to an unhealthy cycle where some people will begin to play pretty nasty to win and push themself into a MMR where they will automatically lose whenever they don't play this way simply because they haven't learned to play on such a level yet. Thanks to MMR being invisible these players will often think that they are at the absolute top and play against the strongest players that exist. So they will be convinced that the only way to play DBD on that level is this exact way. After all, if you are at the top already, then there is nothing more to learn.
The least that could be done, is clarifying to newer players that their MMR and grade are not linked to each other. I feel that this is pretty misleading for anyone who doesn't know.
I think it's good that MMR is invisible but the way it is calculated and explained leaves something to be desired.
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We already have most of these things happening currently.
Yeah so why should we increase the problem?
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I think visible MMR would ruin DBD since everyone would play as competitive as possible to gain higher mmr. Keeping MMR hidden is what makes DBD a casual game.
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If y'all gonna be backfilling without respect to MMR, then we should at least be able to see that. There's no need for specific numbers, but if everyone is approximately the same except the Blight with 10k hours, some transparency on that front would be nice.
Or you could just NOT backfill in the laziest way possible. Either or.
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What do you mean? DBD is already comp game with all those tournaments, visible mmr won't hurt like at all!
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You are right, because of the community the devs don't make good changes like showing teammates perks/addons and adding voice chat, for me all this is nonsense, it is just information transmitted through the game, it is not a cheat!
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I think revealing MMR like that would encourage smurfing and lead to targeted harassment of both streamers and regular players. For example, if a group (SWF) figures out that at a certain MMR they consistently run into a particular player, they could intentionally stay at that level to make that player's experience miserable. Giving players too much information about their MMR could easily lead to more toxic behavior and exploitation.
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i could not disagree more, i was a killer main back then… and it was used to demean me all the time, so for killers it was more drama for sure..
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I'm fairly certain many mainstream PvP games use MMR across all modes, just that some have dedicated "ranked" modes where participating players are placed in queues with similarly like-minded competitive players and are given visual flair rewards for doing well.
League of Legends ARAM mode has MMR. (And I think league even recently made it so that your global MMR is applied to new ranked mode players that could have potentially been farming/botting matches in ARAM to unlock Ranked Rift play without having done any actual summoners rift (to prevent seeding their MMR in that mode))
Asking for a distinct mode category with a better tie-in to emblem rewards and much stricter matchmaking would be a better ask than trying to get the base-line "global" MMR revealed. (though there would be MMR in both modes so you don't get arsemunch stompers just stomping in the "unranked mode", just one labelled as "You must sweat here and there are tighter restrictions"). However it's possible that the asymmetrical nature of DBD would skew which population of survivor/Killer actually play such a mode.
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The game already has a hidden queue delay, plus the killer sees survivors during the lobby, he can just leave if the same players are matched with him, also in the settings they can add so that the same players are not matched with you in the 2nd match in a row. All these are really fake problems, if there are any problems, devs can simply fix it if you are afraid of stream sniping...
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DBD comp scene is tiny compared to other esport games. Very few people care about comp DBD.
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Not really, it takes 2 seconds for me to change my name. - and bypass this.
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We used to have visible mmr with the emblem system and I feel it lead to better match quality, I heavily dislike current matchmaking as it encourages sweaty gameplay as opposed to doing a bit of everything and playing fair.
Emblem system discouraged campers, genrushing etc. It encouraged doing chases, totems, using your power… sure it wasn't perfect, but that ontop of old BBQ and WGLF encouraged people to be more altruistic and go for unhooks, and killers to also spread their hooks…
Current MMR is what is making dbd miserable.1 -
Hahaha, who would do something like that, players who have nothing to do in life? It's unlikely that anyone would do that. As I wrote above, they can make it so (in the settings) that the same players don't meet for at least 2 matches, your post literally screams "creating problems out of thin air"
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people do that… I have seen it.
You can choose not to believe it and thats up to you, its completley fine with me tho.
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How is changing your name, which takes 2 seconds, equate to having no life? You're a curious one…
Since you have stated you can't figure this one out, I'll assist. They do it to bypass the hidden queue delay. I think we've come full circle!0 -
All this can be fixed, you are now creating problems out of thin air, they can add in the settings so that there is no meeting with the same players for a couple of matches, there is nothing complicated here
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