People complaining about killers forcing an EGC sacrifice...
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I don't know anything about these charges...but:
120 * .5 = 60
120 + 60 = 180 (3 minutes)
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See my comment I linked you to above and see this video, empirically proving it lasts 4 minutes and not a second longer:
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I have no doubt it's not working as intended in the game.
I have no doubt that the devs have stated time and time again the EGC is supposed to last a maximum of 3 minutes.
I have no doubt that the math I provided is not mine, it's simply what happens when you enter data into a calculator.
50% longer than 2 minutes is 1 minute. Adding the base with the extra time is 3 minutes.
I'll check out your info, but it's difficult to believe this is complex.
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Dude, it's not complex at all. This is high school math.
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I have 3 children...this isn't high school math. It's elementary math.
Look, I like you @Orion I understand or agree with a lot of your comments. I'm not arguing with you, even if you think I am, or if your think I'm an idiot. It's about as important to me as it takes me to type this lat statement. (90 WPM).
Base speed for EGC is 2 minutes. Do we agree we have BOTH seen the Devs confirm this? If the survivors are not injured or hooked, once the EGC starts, it's 2 minutes maximum? Is this correct? Has anyone tested the base speed of EGC?
IF base is 2 minutes.....let's get to your 4 minutes.
2 * 100% = 2
2 (base) + 2 (slowed percent of 100) = 4
Which the EGC is currently 4 minutes in game, as per your testing. According to the Devs, this is NOT working as intended.
So when we say things like, "It takes twice as long"....well the twice means "doubling"...that's not correct. Twice as long means you use 100%. IF that's what's currently happening in game, I'm not disputing that.
Then people say it will take "half" as long...in that case they are subtracting the time.
This EGC is HALF as fast while a survivor is injured or hooked.
You get 3 minutes every time. If it's seconds or charges.
I work for my State Department of Transportation. This is comp time, exact same thing. We deal with it all the time. If I work 8 hours of overtime, I can convert it to comp time and take 12 hours of time off paid at base pay. Overtime, as we all know, is time and a half. My base pay PLUS half my base pay. If I worked 2 hours of overtime, I can comp it for 3 hours of time off at base pay.
I'm not saying anything about how it's currently working....I'm talking about how it SHOULD be working.
IF the base EGC timer is 2 minutes, and IF time is slowed by 50% when a survivor is injured or hooked, then the maximum amount of time the EGC SHOULD last is 3 minutes.
And that's all I have to say about that.
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You're still not getting that slowing down 50% is not the same as increasing the time by 50%, because that's not how speed and time are related to one another.
v = x/t, that is how speed and time are related to one another. Divide the speed by 2 and solve for t, what do you get?
You say this is elementary math, but you and many people on this forum, and even the devs, are getting it wrong. I honestly don't understand how you can get this wrong. Do you think that slowing down by 100% means it will take you an additional 100% of time to reach your destination, even though slowing down 100% means you're not moving at all?
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@Orion I'm sure your math is right but you're not calculating what the devs said. From what the devs said @FSB75 is right. You just made it more complex then it is. But devs messed up the programming anyway so for now everyone is right and the timer can be what ever you want lol
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I'm not making it more complex than it is. @FSB75 is stating that a 50% reduction in speed is the same thing as a 50% increase in time, which is objectively and demonstrably false. The devs may have ######### up what they intended to do, but that doesn't change the fact that halving the rate at which something progresses will double the time it takes for it to finish. The fact that the timer is slowed by 50% is equally indisputable, as we have video proof confirming it (which I linked to in this thread.
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1) you're comparing apples with pears, Mr State Department of Transportation guy with your comp time example, that doesn't relate to how the EGC timer calculation works and
2) your calculation is incorrect as you make a wrong assumption. As Orion pointed out, time and speed are not related the way you think they are.
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@Orion in this case it is. He gave you an example and a dev also prooved that the system is just not working as intended. The calculation system you used is used for 3 dimensional numbers like speed+time=way. In the case we only need to find out what the time is so you not using it.
50% of an amount of time can never be 100%. It's only wrong if we would have a speed but we only have time. Time has no speed it's just 1 second per second. But I'm not fluent enough in english to explain how time works in when calculating.
No one argueed about the timer not working like you said, we only claimed the fact that he is not working as intented or said by the devs. You misunderstood what the devs said about the timer and now you try to say that even someone who should now how the calculation of the endgame work is wrong.
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50% of 2mins is 1min..... so if it takes 2mins without anyone on the floor or hook and you slug to see the sacrifice the timer increases by 50% ----> 3mins ....... if the timer were increased by 100% that would be all 2mins because 100% of 2mins is 2mins so in that case the max timer would be 4mins
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I know how time works in calculations. I simplified it a bit for the laymen because I figured if some people have trouble understanding that slowing down by a certain amount is not the same as increasing time by that same amount, they'd have more trouble understanding differential equations.
It does seem the devs screwed up, according to Almo, but @FSB75 is actually saying that a 50% speed reduction is equivalent to a 50% time increase, which is not true in the slightest.
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@Bravo0413 The timer is neither increased nor decreased in the literal sense. What's altered is the rate of progression. According to Almo, the intention was to slow it down so it lasted an additional 50%. Instead, they slowed down the progression by 50%, which leads to a 100% time increase.
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So lets say that the OP is right and the game is slowed down 50% making it 3 minutes.
What will happen if we increase the speed by 50% then? Two minutes' 50% is one minute, so the game will last 1 minute.
What will happen if we increase the speed by 100% then? Two minutes' 100% is 2 minute, so the game will instantly be over.
We'll make it increases survivors' healing speed by 100%. Does it mean that we'll make it gives survivors insta heal ability? No.
The easiest way to calculate things is using charge/second system.
Survivors spend 1 charge per second to heal somebody in 16 seconds. So it takes 16 charges to heal somebody. We'll make it speeds them up by 100%, so the survivors spend 2 charges per second, making the heal 8 seconds.
The EGC last 120 seconds and the game spends 1 charge per 1 second making 120 charge.
When it gets slowed down, the game spends 0.5 charge per 1 second, thus
120 charge / 0.5 charge = 240 seconds
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Oh okay.... I remember you a thread explaining how that actually works!... maybe your thread should be revived so we can brush up on it a bit!?
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Here you go:
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@Orion okay now I understand the issue. You're assuming he is talking about movement but taking his calculation he isn't he just put in time by itself like the devs tried to did, you're totally right about movement and time. I just meant that if you take 50% of a minute it's just plain 30 seconds. The devs didn't used the charge system like they do most of the time because it makes the calculation more complex, afterwards they should just stick with it if they still mess it up with something as simple as plus and minus.
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Speed is just one particular case of a progression rate. The principle applies to all of them.
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So in this thread a Dev mentions the increase in timer is by 50% which means the 2 minute timer is increased by 60 seconds... not to 4 minutes when downed. So the max amount of time the EGC can be is 3 minutes correct?
Also.. about when players leave during the loading screen.... So.. when offerings are tossed out.. and a survivor sees a mori and leaves during the offering screen is over.. and loading begins.. Is the match canceled and the killer gets their Mori back?
What stops survivors from preventing killers from ever using moris again?
@Almo and @Peanits
The info I see in the news section with the QA makes me ask these, since I seen Almo explain the timer goes to 3 minutes.. not 4. When does the EGC goto 4 minutes as being the max?
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The dev is wrong. That may have been their intention, but how it works at the moment is that the timer is slowed by 50%, which doubles the time. There's video proof, which I posted in this thread.
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The time in the FAQs is the correct time. The timer moves at half speed, meaning a maximum time of 4 minutes. We wanted to clear that up because there was a little confusion there. The End Game Collapse has gone through many, many iterations so sometimes it's hard for even us to keep track of all the details.
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The fact survivors are complaining about 4 minutes instead of the gate spawns baffles me tbh.
I guess people loved staring at a floor for hours on end because their pride was too strong or something.
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Based on what I've heard from survivor mains over the years in regards to slugging, I think they're just upset that it's rewarding for killers (since it gives a small amount of BP and personal satisfaction due to the cool animation). Slugging happened before the EGC as well, but survivors didn't use to complain this much about it (and even caused it themselves to deprive the killers of points); it's only when it became even slightly rewarding for the killer to do so that it became an issue for them.
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It's a crappy thing to do to people and I'm shocked at the amount of killer mains who stream and would cry about survivors holding the game hostage, that are now holding survivors hostage and forcing EGC kills. Nothing annoys me as a killer quite like some piece of **** waiting at the exit gate instead of just leaving, but I wouldn't do that to survivors.
Fun side note, survivors still do the same crap, they now just have a time limit.
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The fact that it has a timer means it's no longer holding the game hostage.
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Yeah, how about the trapper.. put one trap at every gate, clown: throw your bottles, pig... never mind with a trap on your head.. spirit: fast as hell, mikey: no terror radius, freddy: no chance, leatherface: chainsaws you anyway and i could go on.. got 1 time out vs hag, coz u can trick out her traps..
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ahhh.... EGC doesn't stand for End Game Collapse....
Remember... The Entity needs to eat too.
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The design has changed many, many times between when it first started and when it was released. This all started back when we originally tested hatch closing on the PTB, to give an idea. Naturally it's a little tricky for even us to keep track of it.
But yes, I can confirm that it's 2-4 minutes.
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