Equipment / weapon additions to counter frustrating outpost designs

TrashMammal Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 5
edited February 15 in Feedback

As of the open beta, there is one type of outpost that reigns supreme, and that is the single lane piston hallway complete with guards, flamers and plasma sentries on the sides surrounded by magma cubes.

The reason that these outposts are so effective is because the only way to really defeat them is to tediously kill every piston and flame trap, which is extremely annoying due to the intense long range pressure provided by guards and/or sentries. If the pistons didn't exist, the player only needs to run through the entire base to succeed, since the sentries can't hit anything that is moving, and massed enforcers are easily killed with the plasma bow.

I like the idea of having weapons and equipment that are made to counter certain designs, and I've thought of some changes and additions to the arsenal that would help against these outposts.

1. A sniper-rifle type weapon that pierces guards/traps.

This weapon would require a lengthy charge-up time that improves projectile speed and arc over time, until at 100% charge, where it pierces all guards and traps until it hits a wall. This would counter massive piston hallways, where one projectile would destroy a large amount of traps. This would also counter massive warmonger rushes, which I think everyone has seen at least once.

2. Buffing flash barrier to reset duration after each hit.

This would help counter outposts that put every trap into one room, killing players with sheer volume of fire. A flash barrier can be used for much needed breathing room to grab ammo, or to wait for cool downs like with arc barrier. This would help builders put "breaks" in their outposts instead of putting everything in one room. Also have it dissipate/deflect plasma sentry projectiles so it does not trigger the AOE upgrade.

3. Buff grenades to increased count and AOE and make them sticky?

Grenades should be used to counter extreme trap density. I think they are somewhat mediocre due to the fact that they are countered with traps that are not near a floor for the grenade to sit on. If they were sticky or exploded on impact with an increased aoe This would help stop builders from making huge walls of traps that take forever to pick apart.

4. Buff arc barrier to destroy pistons on touch

Many players think arc barrier is really op, but it's cooldown is quite massive in the grand scheme of things. It already destroys pistons that are activating if being stood on, it should also destroy them if they are walked into while activated. This would also help dismantle those massive piston hallways, even better with a speed boost from a spike drive.

5. Greatly reduce spike drive duration, but reset cool down on trap/guard kill.

This Buff is probably the most controversial one, but it would also help the "every trap close together in one room" kind of outposts. Maybe make the duration 5 seconds but refresh on kill? So a small break will stop the streak but it will thrive in target rich environments. Also, doesn't it sound FUN?

I would like to see any other cool ideas that anyone has. It's fun to think of all the cool ways this game can be balanced.

TLDR: We need more weapons to counter low effort base designs and encourage clever builds.


  • Brainware
    Brainware Member Posts: 8

    Making grenades sticky and them having larger AOE I think is a great change, because they are limited in quantity it will force map makers not to stack every trap in a single area. Same for flash barrier.

    I'd say give us an EMP that disables every trap in a massive AOE but with single use, maybe only in line of sight as to avoid disabling entire outposts.

  • TrashMammal
    TrashMammal Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 5
    edited February 15

    The EMP is a good idea! single use so it is better the more traps are close together, but less effective if the traps are spread throughout an outpost, I like it.

  • clownkrieger
    clownkrieger Member Posts: 121

    Hmmm.... these are good suggestions, but i dont know if that wouldnt end in a buildup-spiral of people trying to counter that again with low effort/cheese. Especially with single use items, what prevents builders to try and lure them out of a raider with a killbox to then have the same killbox again (although that would be more effort and intelligent than what we seem to have currently lol)?

    I think the better approach would be to prevent builders from spamming or encourage smart designs. Like some limit on trap/guard capacity per volume of base as mentioned elsewhere, or restrictions on trap placement (like piston cant have another piston in two or three square distance)?

    Then there is the problem that i guess that most people resort to the cheesy builds cause they cant stand that some people seem to have an easy time avoiding everything else they put up (cough speedrunners cough ). Raiders have extremely powerfull tools at their disposal while traps have to be slow-ish or game would only be fun for people with the craziest reaction times (and the upgrades to get those tools).

    Dont get me wrong, i see the problem and think as well something needs to be done about it, but i dont think the underlying issues or the solution are really easy. Lets hope they come up with some good balance changes...

  • Brainware
    Brainware Member Posts: 8

    With current limitations I think killbox half of it's size isn't very effective. I would love to actually test it though. It's still a deadly trap but exponentially less deadly and if you have right items. Plus I think we as player will become better at dealing with them overtime and they'll just need to get less predictable.

  • TrashMammal
    TrashMammal Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 5
    edited February 15

    Yeah, a lot of my ideas are aimed at stopping the trap spam and trying to get builders to spread out a little bit, even if it means separating out a killbox into smaller ones, those would be way easier to deal with than what is currently used.

    I do agree with your point that these bases are a product of raiders holding W, which is definitely a low-effort playstyle on the raiders end.

    I think there should be a slowing mechanic or even better, a way to activate traps ahead of where a raider is running instead of when they pass by, adding a new layer to builder skill by allowing builders to anticipate raiders rather than focus on where they are. This would of course be bad against cautious raiders, but I think outposts that force raiders to switch up their playstyles are interesting to think about.

  • clownkrieger
    clownkrieger Member Posts: 121

    I think the edit function ate your comment at some point, i saw it and then it vanished somehow, now its back lol. Anyways, it made me think of a suggestion you mention here, light barrieres and pressure plates.

  • noggieB
    noggieB Alpha Surveyor Posts: 63

    Too many edits in a short time can trigger "Waiting for your comment to be approved". 🤷

    I like the ideas for weapons targetted to counter certain designs, but the one simple idea I heard that would counter all boring/repetitive/lazy designs is:

    • For prestige, make accolades more important than kills

    I suspect a 70:30 ratio would do it.

  • clownkrieger
    clownkrieger Member Posts: 121

    That would help letting them die sooner (although tbh i didnt *really* understand the prestige mechanic and its prerequisites) but wouldnt prevent them popping up in the first place. If most people tend to such a "meta" they would still be prevalent.

    Also people would probably be pissed if their outposts would be dead after a day or two (on the steam forums there is a big discussion going on about that, even that you can only prestige to lvl 10 leads to a too short outpost-lifespan for many). Not everyone enjoys the building aspect of the game, or wants his creation to be eternal.

    So yea, bringing up gamemechanics to counter lazy/cheesy outposts would probably be smarter (I still think that accolades should have a higher impact reward-wise for builders though).

  • Redbeard_Steel
    Redbeard_Steel Member Posts: 32

    I like this idea, though then it becomes an issue of relying on player opinion vs player skill to prestige. I gave out Fun to a ton of bases, quite a few artistic too, however others I know rarely gave out any accolades unless the base was top tier, like, best of the best in every aspect. (Brother also refused to give out accolades to people who intentionally covered Tombs to make them unreachable or put caustic traps on/under them, but I support this one)

  • chezpizza
    chezpizza Member Posts: 120

    Another "weapon" idea.

    Grappling hook upgrade idea - harpoon.

    Destroys traps and pulls stuns and guards but can no longer zip through the level. Infinite uses but cooldown to use (similar to shield)

  • TrashMammal
    TrashMammal Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 5

    Im going to be honest. While the accolade system is good for promoting interesting bases, I don't like the idea of builders having to "appease" the playerbase to have a successful outpost. I think players should be trying to make outposts that are as deadly as possible, and all we need are the right tools to counter outposts that are low effort/spammy.

  • clownkrieger
    clownkrieger Member Posts: 121

    While i agree, thats true for raiding as well though imo: W-holding and/or speedrunning with grapple/shield is low effort and/or spammy. So give builders better tools to counter that as well.