Should there be some pressure system for raiders? If yes what would that pressure system be?

BillSimmons
BillSimmons Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 74

As of recent my replays have mostly been slow with great caution taken around every turn. I miss the speedrunners and brave souls who'd sprint through bases, but there's nothing other than a raider's own patience pushing them to progress in an outpost, and with that lack of pressure most outposts can be meticulously peeled apart trap by trap at the raider's leisure to ensure a deathless raid.

The first idea that comes to mind is a Super Mario 300 second timer with a bonus for every unused second. The timer would scale along with difficulty and HRV path length. Any unused time bonus would counteract death(s) depending on the amount of time left when successfully stealing the genmat. If you had 0 deaths and a time bonus additional rewards would be received.

Playing safe/slow would still help guarantee that you completed the map without dying, but going fast would now be an alternate option with additional rewards if you could do so with few deaths.

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Watching slow replays and raiding slow myself to "win" the most in the eyes of the game has made both aspects of MYM less interesting.

Answers

  • Darkyan
    Darkyan Member Posts: 122

    To a certain extent that would kill artistics accolades and brutal maps.

    If theres a timer I'm less inclined to explore for tombs or look at the way people made their beautiful traps.

    speedrunners will speedrun regardless of timer or not, so we're kinda just punishing people who like to go slowly.

    And those people are just gonna go "No way im getting the bonus with that huge base, im gonna try something else"

  • TragicSolitude
    TragicSolitude Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 6,626

    The grappling hook is really awkward when I try to use it (and when watching replays the difference in how well a PS4 player vs a PC player can grapple is quite noticeable), and you can't really go speedy without it. Even trying to slowly and carefully grapple has gotten me killed a lot, getting caught in spots or not going where I tried to aim for; I really don't understand how PC players can do it so rapidly.

    It'd also be really difficult to do anything time-based in an Outpost when path length and trap density can vary so wildly. The game really sucks at determining difficulty level based on these two factors, so I'm not sure how the system could fairly determine a timer based on them. The complaints from Raiders would go from Corrosive Cubes and Plasma Sentinels to Outposts of nothing but Pistons.

    This game is really more about players challenging themselves. "Rank" shouldn't be called rank when it's really a battlepass and not competitive. There should be no loss of battlepass points. And in a game that's all about dying and learning from each death, players shouldn't be penalized for dying. People could play how they like and challenge themselves how they like and be rewarded for getting the GenMat, whether the reason for getting the GenMat was by doing it perfectly the first try or dying 100 times and learning and persisting. Both ways are valid.

  • Amaroq64
    Amaroq64 Member Posts: 97

    It seems to me that you can/should build pressure systems into your own outposts.

    For example, I like to put a guard in the room and then hide a couple of Armored/Bloodlust warmongers in the room they came from, behind a holocube.

    In practice, they just get killed by Warmongers when they sneak up behind, and then they learn to look out for them.

    But a couple of times, the Warmongers coming up behind them did force them to run into the room they were being cautious towards, and I was so happy when they did that and survived, lol!

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,611

    Would completely discourage building anything outside of the HRV's path. I have some elaborate non-linear outposts, and I hate it when people speed run those and miss out on 90% of my build and all of the forgotten tombs.

    Both playstyles should be available for raiders to use though, and you can build your outpost to encourage/discourage them.

    For example, I came across a particularly tricky outpost today, where you pass under a couple of armoured Cannonbacks, who you can't possibly hit until they've already seen you, at the same time as a couple of Sentinels. It was really difficult to take this part slow, but fairly easy to speedrun. But then if you speedrun past that part you turn a corner and come to a room full of Cannonbacks and a bunch of pistons blocking your path, so you can't speedrun.

  • UnethicalOctopus
    UnethicalOctopus Member Posts: 27

    If you want a pressure system I think building it in manually through creative placement of enemies and traps is in order.

    Exactly what those conditions would be may require a bit of work on your end. For instance patrols on guards.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 685
    edited May 2023

    adding guards on patrol routes/bloodlust adds that pressure. but it will actually cause the opposite, they go slower and wait out the enemies. a bonus reward for fast completion would make my personal gameplay more rewarding but would encourage speedrunning and not puzzle solving. personally i'd prefer to encourage the problem solving playerbase.


    edit - there are also tricks you can do to prevent slow dismantle by building your base certain ways, but everyone just calls it a killbox and cries because they CAN'T dismantle it freely. what do you know about acid conversion tunnels?

  • UnethicalOctopus
    UnethicalOctopus Member Posts: 27

    You bring up a good point as far as guard patrols are concerned. It only seems to work well sometimes. There are occasions where I feel like the cell to hold a guard fails to restrain them and they just walk through what should be a wall




    Acid conversion traps depress me. I usually see it coming due to lack otraps or guard on the way in to grab the Genemat. I'm just like here we go again...

    However the idea of not being able to return the way I entered a dungeon intrigues me.

    If I am forced not to be able to return to the entrance to harrow out an onslaught of guards 😒. As much as I hate to admit it it adds the needed pressure.

    Hard to pull off though because of hookshot. Double ceiling and floor is lava roof sounds expensive.

    I don't know ow about anyone else, but the most pressure I feel is when a maze is really big and windy leading me to be so lost that I get a bit claustrophobic.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 685

    personally i avoid mazes like the plague. yeah i use the conversion tunnel purely to force players to go forward then i put everything behind genmat and set it up so that they can't pick apart the room without touching genmat and making the stuff behind acid, forcing them forward.

  • UnethicalOctopus
    UnethicalOctopus Member Posts: 27

    I love mazes