Why is running your own map such a difficult concept?

Redbeard_Steel Member Posts: 32

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly or it was bugged every time I did it, when you run your own base you have infinite respawns, right from where you died. You didn't have to restart at the entrance, you didn't have to actually try, you could even kamikaze into every trap, traps STAY broken this whole run, and respawn was almost instantaneous, so the argument against it of "I'm a bad raider" is at best a joke.

You could be the worst raider in existence and still be able to get through your own base 3 times faster than any speedrunner who died once, unless it's a spam base. You even have the added knowledge of knowing the correct path and where the traps are ahead of time.

It'd be easy to avoid redoing it every time you want to change a single thing too, set a hard limit for when it needs redone (for instance, 450 additional blocks used from last completed run).

Say your base has 1,500 blocks, you use 1,400. Now you run the base, and it marks that you completed it at "1,400 blocks used". Now the only time you'd HAVE to rerun it (you could do it sooner to increase to 1,500 in this instance, if you wanted to increase the time for when you need to rerun later) is after you've added more than 450 blocks to your current usage. So you prestige it to 1,675, you wouldn't need to rerun it. Prestige it a second time to 1,850, if you use the max 1,850 then you have to rerun it when you finish in order to activate it. If you use all 1,850 blocks, you don't have to worry about rerunning it for 3 more prestiges (as even when it increases in extra capacity, it only goes up to 200 extra at 4/5, until prestige 6, you're still fine unless you hit 2,300+), and that's IF you use all the capacity available. If you've added 450 points worth of traps (6 flamers with a couple modded, 7 guards with all armor modded, 10 impaler traps with any mods, 20 corrosive blocks with all mods, etc) that is quite a big change. On the flip side, you could have added 449 base building blocks for new dead end paths, a TON of mods to all existing traps, or a combination of all these things.

This is a point where your base has drastically changed in difficulty, so having to run it still seems incredibly easy with infinite lives, perma-destroyed traps, and on-death spawn (not to mention you have access to all gear as well, so you're not worse off than a raider). The only way this would be difficult at that point is if you've made a map that's so spam happy that even with all your bonuses, it still takes 20 minutes to complete. If it's THAT hard to do with infinite lives and everything else you get, why would ANYONE want to run it when they have none of those bonuses?


  • clownkrieger
    clownkrieger Member Posts: 121

    I dont think anyone of the "maker has to complete his map"-fraction would be satisfied if you were allowed to do that in the friggin testing mode that the build mode offers...

    But ok, lets assume we would have to rerun it in regular mode as any raider, but then only if you ad more than 450 blocks. I could just leave an entrance directly to the genemat, enter through that, leave through that -> completed, upload it and then add a single block to close that entrance...

  • Entchenklein
    Entchenklein Member Posts: 35

    No matter how you turn it rading your own base would only get anoying and will not fix much except people dont wanting to build bases anymore cause they have to run through them themselfes and yes you can technically fine the creator path but if you are skilles with building you know how to hide something like that and raiders will take ages to find it if there even is a creator path in the first place

    Also the core idear of the game is still to make a outpost to protect your genmat not make fun levels

  • MiniWall
    MiniWall Member Posts: 10

    We've yet to see any impossible map outside of bug and glitch.

    I repeat, we've yet to see any impossible map....so why? why do you guys want to force people to clear their own map? is that some childish attempts to get back at them for killing you? I do not understand.

    Using the HVR as a way to free the constraint of clearing the maps and number or placement of guard and traps is the MAIN improvement of this game over the gender.

    Enforcing clearing base is just a lazy way for devs around balancing content. And in other game, let's say, the mighty quest for epic loot for instance, when it was done, meta got even worse and a lot more of copy-pasted outpost were seen.

    The game is already heavily in favours of raiders. As a builder, you can not progress in game, only barely sustaining your own bases, and that's only if you get high raid attempts or kda... Asking for builder to have less fun with their build by forcing them to clear them is just wrong.

    As a builder you're already forced to raid to prestige your outpost or even buy them, and by raiding I do not mean regular raid, I mean subpar experience of raiding while looking for forsaken ruins. Let me be clear, we do not mind raiding, we will raid in order to see what's done outside our own works, and in some case we may even want to take a break from building. Being forced to raid 2h with a subpar harder challenge (forsaken ruins) just to continue building? THAT right here is something not fun, heck, I wish my only issues were about seeing one or two bases I don't like while playing....

    I do still understand we need way to push people away from building so other builder can get more raid attempts...and I don't have a solution for that.

    Back to the main point, the issue is not about difficulty of base, if you can't clear one, its a player skill issue period.

    The issue is about people not enjoying the "average" brutal base, w/e that mean for you. I think brutal should be an hardcore challenge, and not a way to speed run progress, that should be the dangerous difficulty but that's another debate.

    Asking for a clear from builder will never be the solution to that.

    What need to be done is anti-maze feature, anti-auto HVR kill feature and balancing the game around one fact:

    A trap/guard that you notice earlier should never be more deadly than one you did not see. This will probably be the case when we get some weapons that could penetrate more mobs, let's call it javelin for instance...

  • Redbeard_Steel
    Redbeard_Steel Member Posts: 32

    "Also the core idear of the game is still to make a outpost to protect your genmat not make fun levels"

    By this same logic, if all levels are just made with this reasoning of "as many kills as possible, screw anyone else's fun", why would anyone want to raid bases? Just to die 30 times to the same copy/paste spam map? If that's what all the bases become, people would just go play a different game.

  • Redbeard_Steel
    Redbeard_Steel Member Posts: 32

    1: We have nothing for statistics, so we can't genuinely say there are no maps that couldn't be cleared. That's just based on the (seemingly) 2 dozen people who actually post on this forum. And no one has claimed to only see "1 or 2" cheese maps, if I saw that few I wouldn't give a crap about them.

    2: The issue isn't that bases are "impossible" to beat, it's that people make a base that uses so much spam it requires luck, not skill, to clear. There's a reason the same type of base showed up over and over, because it was effective with little work to be had and skill had a minimal affect. 30+ enemies shooting at you in an open room with differencing delayed shots and AoE attacks that only need to hit you once and all of them exploding on death made it so that unless you're the top 1% of players, you're not gonna live more than 30 seconds. If all maps are going to be based around being the top players, it'll be dead before winter hits as you can't convince a new person to the game that they can either do maps that are basically walks in the park, or they can die 10 times in the first 10 steps into the room.

    While I do agree building should give more progression towards leveling, the difference between building a base once (or just constantly adding little bits to it) and then waiting for people to give you progress does not compare to constantly having to try to work your way through a new base every time you play. I had 5 bases, 3 of which were Brutal and 2 dangerous. 1 brutal had over 200+ kills, 1 dangerous ended with over 70 kills (I think it was 73, was a small base, 1,000 build capacity, did terrible starting out) and the other 3 bases all had over 100 kills. I had to repay for a base that didn't prestige once (the low kill base) in the week. I put nowhere near as many hours into those as I did raiding, and still came out with only 1 reroll in the week. Didn't have to run any spam BS builds, so the argument of "this type of map is needed to get kills" only works if your designs are actually that bad, in which case, you should probably do some raiding to get ideas for good builds. That was the whole POINT of making you raid to start with, so you got an idea of what did/didn't work. Player like you're wearing a tinfoil hat and avoiding alien probes is a perfectly reasonable, albeit a little funny, strategy. If you want to solely build, that's fine, but it's just like DbD in that case. If you only play Killer or Survivor and never do the other, you'll never fully comprehend the other side. You don't need to do it all the time by any means, but you're not doing yourself any favors by ignoring it.


    As to the original point of my post, Clownkrieger actually pointed out something I hadn't realized when I originally made it. I had thought people had an issue with having to run their own base in test mode, which was so easy it's laughable, however he stated others were asking for an entirely different test mode where the builders become just a regular raider and have to complete it themselves.

    This wasn't my understanding of the situation, so I'm an idiot on this point, and I can understand builders not wanting this as a requirement now, as there are people who can be incredibly creative in building but not up to par for the raiding part. (this is excluding people who just make spam maps, if you're that type of person, I loathe your existence lol).

    If a mod could delete or lock this post, as it's basis was a misunderstanding on my part (and I can't find how to delete it), I would appreciate it.