Should builders have to beat their own levels in order to publish their outpost designs?

chezpizza
chezpizza Member Posts: 120

This poll is anonymous.

Simple yes or no.

The demo quickly showed a sort of meta level design that showed promise for lots of kills, which have been phrased as cheese builds. Many consider these builds to be very hard, if not impossible, to beat. As the game currently allows a builder to put as many traps in a single area, the question that many MyMer's ask is should builders have to beat thier own levels?

Should builders have to beat their own levels in order to publish their outpost designs? 30 votes

Yes, builders should have to beat their own levels in order to publish.
50% 15 votes
No, builders should NOT have to beat their own levels in order to before publish.
50% 15 votes

Comments

  • Hugo
    Hugo Alpha Surveyor Posts: 142

    I am a raider main, nearly only raider player. Think that they shouldn't have to beat it themself, some raiders I talked with have no interest in raiding, so forcing them to do something they dislike is not cool.

  • Viktoriusiii
    Viktoriusiii Member Posts: 36

    Make it optional.

  • ClutchSSF
    ClutchSSF Member Posts: 5

    This is not the answer to "cheese builds". With time and patience any map is completable and even if this were to slow the rate of "cheese builds" being created, it wouldn't stop it. Regardless, this will create other issues when this could be solved in other ways. I believe the freedom to play to your own playstyle and pacing this game allows are some of it's biggest appeals. If players had to approve every change by running their map, I feel that small changes and trap testing would become very tedious.

  • Matoshiro
    Matoshiro Member Posts: 4

    In this game, to me, Meta will be for trap setups. If you make a meta of a type of base, that people hates. They'll either skip, leave or block you. So the "Meta" would be only effective with a bunch of stubborn try-harders, which isn't everyone. So no, this is not needed. The HRV mechanic is already plenty enough. Especially, the fact that the difficulty variables doesn't matter on Brutal. And if you want no HRV or limitation of that type, just make a social outpost.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 3,909

    If it's not made mandatory, make it so players can dodge unproven maps.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Or they could give us a filter for maps. Where we can choose if we want a map with the most acholites per category.

    Kill boxes would get most likely very little points and thus get less traffic.

  • CotePathos
    CotePathos Member Posts: 31

    Anyone who builds a killbox understands how to break a killbox.

  • M11NTY
    M11NTY Alpha Surveyor Posts: 14

    Make it so instead it tells you if the owner has beat their own base or not before raiding it.

  • Dillon_J
    Dillon_J Member Posts: 2

    There definitely needs to be a system that requires players to beat there own map. We saw this work very well for Super Mario Maker. Since rank points system is in the game, it can be frustrating to run into an unbeatable map. The social outpost system can be a place where these unbeatable, but sometimes fun to play, maps could exist and thrive.

  • CotePathos
    CotePathos Member Posts: 31

    I'm confused; Mario maker is famous for its kaizo levels, if anything it proves forcing a player to beat their own level is redundant since once they do (and they will) we're back to square one.

    And the Harv system prevents impossible levels in this game. the worst you can encounter are piston path hells, but while hard they can absolutely be beaten.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 3,909

    I have a couple of design in mind that would be lethal and that I have no idea how to beat. Which is kind of the point of their design.

    Not square one. We are left with levels that someone has beaten. I can beat all my maps but, as I've mentioned above, I can design something I cannot beat.

    I went in such a map tonight. I've immediately left and blocked the designer.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 3,909
    edited April 2023

    I don't know the implications as I'm not sure what acholites are.

  • CotePathos
    CotePathos Member Posts: 31

    Design your unbeatable level and put it in the community tab, I'll beat it for you.

    I'd also like to point out you "could", you haven't done so. The people who actually do build these levels are almost always the ones who are willing to go through them, spite is a powerful motivator

    Harv is a potent difficulty ceiling, they ensure all levels have a clear path to the genmat. Mixed with every trap being avoidable on reaction (barring maybe a hidden piston) and unbeatable levels are impossible.

  • chezpizza
    chezpizza Member Posts: 120

    You know I would love if the maps displayed average beat times, fastest beat time and average deaths per player.

  • Dillon_J
    Dillon_J Member Posts: 2

    You can beat kaizo mario levels. In Meet Your Maker, people do not have to make levels you can beat. I am not sure I understand your point.

  • CotePathos
    CotePathos Member Posts: 31

    It is literally, completely impossible to build an impossible level. Every base has a Harvey sized path in it, and there is no combination of traps that can't be overcome.

    Go ahead. Make an "impossible" level and send it to me. I'll prove it's possible.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    After a raid, you can vote up to 2 times on the 4 categories, if the map was fun, brutal, etc.

    Those votes are called acholites (i think, don´t nail me on that one, as i´m not playing in englisch). The builders get points for all the votes after a match.

    So having a filter for one of the 4 categories could change how certain maps are appearing in the rotation.

  • Ggjustice
    Ggjustice Member Posts: 22

    Just leave builders to only build if they want... And raiders to only raid if they want... You can beat any level with right setup SOLO not to mention in group of 2

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 3,909
    edited April 2023

    The German version is probably pretty close to the English one. At least I know what you mean.

    I tend to give no points to bad bases (dumb kill boxes, ...) and I'm probably not the only one.

    Thus, such a filter would probably work nicely indeed.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 3,909
    edited April 2023

    Next time I have both the time and the resources to make such a map, I'll post it around here and I'll tag you.

  • nightylion
    nightylion Member Posts: 20

    I saw level which is impossible to beat without those "invul" tools. basically genmat is at the end of really long corridor. Everything above - hidden corrosive blocks with guards upgraded with detonator somewhere above. Once you get genmat they fall through lava blocks, die and eplode whole corridor. Impossible to speedrun it with grappling hook and speed consumable.

    I don't know how guards can be placed on top of lavablocks, maybe somebody could explain. Pistons? Don't have them to test.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 580
    edited April 2023

    It's easy beatable with shield or phoenix pod.

    Also in most cases you can grapple through those acid cubes because guards need free space to be placed, you can use it too. Also BHVR added couple seconds of activation on second wave cubes/acid too, so you have several seconds to think, be prepared (and put down phoenix pod) and maybe even outrun the wave.

    As for "how": you need holocubes/acid with second wave. You can place guards on normal cubes and lead them onto holocubes/acid. Here they stay until genmat is taken and then cubes become "soft" so guards drop through acid and die.

    It requires special tools, yes, but so do other setups. I avoided all guard-spam bases until unlocked anti-guard crossbow. And avoided all DMS bases until unlocked phoenix pod. Now it is not a big deal. Especially if you can see this coming.

  • nightylion
    nightylion Member Posts: 20

    That's what i call "invul(nerability) tool". There was no way to outrun the wave, but i didn't think about grappling through lava, that could work.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 580

    Oh. Now I get it, I understood this word wrong, sorry. Thanks.

    Grappling could be tricky because builder can place 2 corrosive cubes(?) to prevent grappling or place tons of traps to protect this free space. But it requires even more capacity and most builders just invest everything in DMS. So worth a try. It saved me couple times.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Yeah, same. If its a dull kill box with 30 plasma cannons greeting me at the entry, i just turn around and leave.