Remove the grappling hook!

noggieB

I know it's unlikely that BHVR will even try this, but I am really curious what this game would be like (or might have been) without the grapple, or with a limited grapple.

Pros:

1. We could have outposts with open-sky roofs (no ceiling). A 2-block surrounding wall would be enough to keep the player inside an open-topped room. (Currently almost all outposts are closed corridors or caverns, but this could change.)
2. This could result in some style of jump-parkour outposts. The outpost could be a sort of long winding staircase that the player must walk along, or take long leaps to get from one platform to another. A 4-block gap could prevent the player from jumping between platforms. There could be floating blocks that the raider has to jump between. (Oh, except we can't enforce jump paths because of Harvey.)

Cons:

1. If the player falls into a pit, they may have to restart the raid, since they can't grapple out of it.
2. The player may not be able to retrieve ammo from traps that are far away. But that could be a part of the challenge. (The builder could also make the path so the player can retrieve their ammo later in the raid.) Or perhaps the grapple could be repurposed as an ammo-retriever (like a frog's tongue).
3. In general, a limited grapple would be more challenging for raiders.

A gentler version of this might be a grapple that you can use only once, and then you have to land on a surface to reset it. With this kind of grapple, you could get out of some pits, and retrieve some ammo, but you could not repeat-grapple to get all the way to the top of a high wall. And you couldn't spam grapple to stay on the ceiling while clearing a room.

Of course this would be a huge change. But I'm just so curious about how the game might look without grapple, which is so heavily used that it dominates the style of play.

In the unlikely event that BHVR did want to try this, it could be tested as a limited-time mode on just some outposts, as suggested here: https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/364592/wild-card-condition-for-raids#latest

clownkrieger

Removing the grapple is no option imo, its too cool and makes the playstyle of MyM so unique i think (at least if you have a map where you can actually use it really). While watching replays with a friend (that didnt play himself) and talking about speedrunning, he suggested to maybe give it limited charges with a cooldown to counter that, which would be an interesting option that would enforce more strategic use of the grapple. Would make some cheese strategies out there harder to counter though probably.

Brainware

If you are infuriated from players using grappling hook to dodge traps:

1. Abstruct players vision and movment by: Making small corridors without head room, adding lava blocks, piston traps, grabbers, flamethrowers that face the path.
2. Make it less obvious which is the correct path, while having player dodge bunch of ranged units and traps. This will give player 3 choices: Go fast but ahead of harvery, wait for harvey but then go fast having some idea of where to go, don't go fast but have to destroy all the traps. In all cases player needs to be carefull not to kill harvery if map is like a maze.
3. Give builders more tools instead of taking grappling hook away from players. I enjoy grappling hook and I think everyone does, unless you don't raid at all.

Another thing I want to say is I've seen builders kill harvey in an unavoidable way and he isn't respawning. I don't think this should be allowed because I've seen some mazes that are ultra hard to get through, sometimes even impossible.

Player can tell which paths harvey can and cannot take but still a good maze can trap you there for eternity unless you have a perfect memory.

To deal with this I think, either:

1. Raspawn harvey
2. Make harvery immune, to the damage
3. Give raiders tools to map out the maze by, for example, placing some signs on the way.

Viktoriusiii

I like the idea of making the grapplinghook a gadet as well. Basicially making it optional.

You can pack it or something else. And also can be upgraded. Pull-in speed, cooldown, type of hook (direct or physicsbased) could give a LOT of variation... especially as long as harvey is still around ^^ Since he garantuees you can complete every map without a hook.

Redbeard_Steel

https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3345819#Comment_3345819

As it is, those maps that are huge rooms with dozens of eyes and ranged enemies are ridiculous enough. Removing the grappling hook as an option would just make those levels unbeatable altogether. The only reason I was able to complete any of them was that I could quickly grapple around and shield, and even with that, death was guaranteed multiple times before you finally find a way to out-cheese them.

The grapple is also a really cool mechanic overall and makes the game stand out more, if they turn it into a limited/one use item, then they'd need to add more ammo or something in order to work around these types of maps (which were frequently made) and at that point the game becomes even less interesting, as all you're doing is shooting everything from one spot (especially since you couldn't replace your ammo that's on a sentinel eye 8 squares up, they would have to give more ammo or these levels would be unplayable).