(IDEA-2) Toggle Harvey with Risk/Reward System
All the discussions on what should be done with Harvey is getting very old. Everyone wants one extreme or the other, which works for no-one.
"Eliminate him from the game!!!!".........
"Keep him with no alterations at all!!"......
OR
How about a choice based system that can directly impact the rewards you receive? This will allow the Raider a choice but also help spark Builders to make more than just a Kill box and perhaps introduce more strategic mazes into builds.
The concept is simple:
- Before a Raid, you get the option to "Have" or "Not Have" harvey lead the way
- If you choose to "Not Have" Harvey, your earnings of genmat and material drops increase (Higher risk, Higher Reward)
"Why would you increase material drops on top of the booster that already does that?"
Again, simple. You chose to discard harvey. Now you have to deal with a Labyrinth. Why not get rewarded for your troubles instead of it just being a waste of time because someone built it to be just that? Builders can then use this boosted "Greed" to their advantage also.
Comments
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I'm not sure I get it. That would mean that an outpost would either need to be build with Harvey in mind or without him. You can't have an outpost that can be switched between "harvey mode" and "no harvey mode" for obvious reasons.
Just to get it clear, there is currently a way to build complex mazes for forbidden tombs. It's not the same as genmat, doesn't have a second wave etc but it's something.
We also need to remember that Harvey is not only a hindrance on creativity but a legit way to prevent complex boring mazes. Last thing I want in this game is getting lost in 4500 point maze with multiple dead ends. We need a system that shows us a direct way to the GenMat. You could only do this if we give Harvey the ability to fly or crawl walls xD
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""I'm not sure I get it. That would mean that an outpost would either need to be build with Harvey in mind or without him. You can't have an outpost that can be switched between "harvey mode" and "no harvey mode" for obvious reasons.""
No, your thinking to deep into it. Sure, maybe even an option for builders to choose to have harvey at all would be viable, even put those outposts into a category of their own. But, you build as you want, including mazes and the standard path to the genmat as normal. If the player chooses harvey, they have a guide that leads them but they still deal with the traps you set on that path (And get standard rewards instead of increased ones). Without harvey, the player path is chosen by them. And if they end up choosing a path that leads to dead ends, they can still kill the traps along the way to get increased part/material drops, and also swing back to another path, gain materials from those traps, and get increased rewards if they complete the map since they chose the "Risk" option without Harvey.
""We also need to remember that Harvey is not only a hindrance on creativity but a legit way to prevent complex boring mazes. Last thing I want in this game is getting lost in 4500 point maze with multiple dead ends.""
This scenario is inevitable. The current system in place to prevent this is the easiest approach. If raiders get bored, they exit and choose another base. This hurts the builders kill ratio and earnings, and over time, proves that pointless mazes like this should be discouraged. No kills or accolades for builders will wear down their mentality to build like this overtime. Adding more rules to base building will sooner or later destroy the concept of the game.
""We need a system that shows us a direct way to the GenMat.""
And while were at it, increase the delay for traps firing even more, be able to see enemies through walls, and place the genmat at the start?? I dont know how anyone can conceive this as the proper way for a "Raid" based on the core fundamentals of this games structure? Quake had dead ends, Destiny had dead ends, hell even a game like Snow Runner has non recoverable scenarios when playing in hard mode that could cause you to restart the entire game. Choose your battles, not everyone gets a trophy.
However, to actually provide a solution to what you said, instead of just saying we "need" something. How about a piece of hardware that acts as a path navigation tool. It has limited uses, and only shows a "Highlighted path" for a certain distance and/or time. Upgrading it can increase the length and/or time it shows the path to genmat.
""You could only do this if we give Harvey the ability to fly or crawl walls""
This is also a viable solution. But this was not implemented from the start for a reason. Maybe because it is a difficult pathing algorithm and not enough resources to cover it development wise. whatever it may be, a simpler approach to modify the system is more practical than an overhaul while in the games beginning stages.
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"If the raider gets bored they exit and go to another base"
Except that's impossible with the current system. If you leave, that base stays on your choices of base to raid.
I now have 3 obnoxious kill boxes and 1 Harvester killed 4500 capacity maze where the entrance is probably in a shady corner between two wedges amongst my choices.
Which leaves me with only 1 choice to raid, the grenadier GenMat.
I also don't look forward to "Pick a path" system where you fight an entire hallway filled with trap only to reach the end and see a glass block between you and the GenMat.
Don't forget that just "Owning" a base gives you passive GenMat exp at a okay-ish cost.
I like the idea of not having Harvey for specific scenarios where you make a single trap that tricks the player into thinking he's walking on a safe path only to fall in a pitfall.
But I absolutely refuse to fight a Brutal Maze with red herrings everywhere.
It's ingenious, but a massive waste of time
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""Except that's impossible with the current system. If you leave, that base stays on your choices of base to raid.""
Apparently, you can exit a raid and then "replace" it with a new one in the list. I just posted something about this and then marked it deleted after a fellow player said you can do this.
""I also don't look forward to "Pick a path" system where you fight an entire hallway filled with trap only to reach the end and see a glass block between you and the GenMat.""
Your right, choices and set-backs are not acceptable. We should ALWAYS have someone tell us where to go and make sure we have a success rate of 98%. 🙄 Again, you at least would earn drops from those destroyed traps for upgrades now, and in future content.
""Don't forget that just "Owning" a base gives you passive GenMat exp at a okay-ish cost.""
Yet again, your right! If I'm getting an "okay-ish" trickle of income, why should I ever try to achieve more? I heard something like this before....from a guy on "unemployment" checks who refused to have a job.
""I like the idea of not having Harvey for specific scenarios where you make a single trap that tricks the player into thinking he's walking on a safe path only to fall in a pitfall.""
Welcome to the party. In the most basic sense, that's exactly what I'm getting at 😑
""But I absolutely refuse to fight a Brutal Maze with red herrings everywhere.""
Thats why they have 3 tiers of outposts... Now lets circle back up to where you have the option to exit/replace the raid (Based on the post i linked to earlier)
""It's ingenious, but a massive waste of time""
Yea, total waste of time to play a game based off player building freedom with the core concept being other players trying to trick/slow down/prevent (which takes time) other players from reaching a goal.
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I saw the same post afterward so that's my bad, totally not noticeable feature.
I'm not flat-out disagreeing and saying that choices and set-backs are bad, but with the current core gameplay, letting the raider chose to hide harvey is a mistake.
I would run Harvey Off at all time and just speed-run small Brutal outpost, get 3750 Genmat multiple time in a matter of minute, and then skip on long and tedious outposts.
Because that's the reward I'm looking for. a huge money increase for doing the bare minimum like any other players, instead of walking in circle inside a maze for 30 minutes or spending 20 minutes clearing a flamethrower spam only to notice it was wrong all along. ( Traps gives garbage resources and no Genmat exp, i'd rather spam the tribute exp from completing genmat and get 500 of each every 10 minutes)
There's some outposts out there with lovely creativity, some that kill Harvey but still take only about 7 minutes to complete.
And then there's the garbage.
I think, on the opposite, the BUILDERS should have the ability to disable harvey, since they're considerably more likely to offer choices and creativity and they already do.
There's just no extra rewards for it.
Fix that ^, don't put it in the hands of the raiders because it'll rewards the lazy and punish the perseverent
Edit : I still think mazes are unfun and a waste of time and I still don't look forward to seeing an increase in mazes if harvey disappears.
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