Do you guys think Moris are fair?
Mostly making this thread to go along with the "do you guys think keys are fair?" thread because I'm interested in the logic behind someone who thinks one is fair but not the other.
Comments
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apparently to people moris are hard to get yet i get a mori like every bloodweb or 2 (the red one) .But i personally think them in themselves are fair because once you know the killer has it you can play a lot more cautious. Like if the killer knows a survivor has a key theyll try to either get rid of it or kill the survivor.
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I personally dislike Mori's, but they are fair. You have full knowledge of them prior to the game starting. Devour Hope is earned, Rancor is double sided sword, Cypress and Ivory are ok. Ebony is a little overpowered, but you know instantly or should always assume Ebony.
Same with Keys. The only thing I wish was different with keys was outside of Bringing them in or finding them with Plunders I feel they should not just be found randomly without plunders in chest.
Because there's a set amount of ultra rares in the game and that's very small ranging from 1 to 3 without Splinters.
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Totally agree. I play both sides and without question, I'm way more likely to find Moris in the bloodweb (sometimes 2 or 3 in the same level) than I am to find keys. From level 1 to level 50, you're lucky if you get like 3 or 4 keys and only one of them will be the pink one. Meanwhile once you hit level 30, there's almost a mori in every bloodweb from there to 50
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ive played with a maxed out meg for a year year and a half and may have gotten 10 in my lifetime and ive only played killer for 2 months and have gotten like 20 moris probably.
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Also i personally dont use moris myself but if its a 4man swf with flashlights yeah no im murdering all you no mercy.
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Mori are not Fair, especially when u get farmed and instantly moried. Just a easy way to win as killer and shoudnt exist at all
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Depends on when you use them after first Hook no
If use them when the survivors going to be dead on hook I guess it's ok but then it also takes away the possibility of that person being saved with a flashlight pallet or body blocking but it's a lot better than first hook moring.
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Keys and Mori's aren't fair.
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4 swf + 4 flashlights -> Ebony incoming.
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No, they aren't. Especially Ebony Mori, but even Ivory Mori can win you games easily. I would make them useable just after you hooked all 4 survivors.
Devour Hope and Rancor are fine tho, because they aren't too reliable and even take time to build up in the case of Devour Hope.
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Fair? No. But I like that they exist because they keep fear in the game
As I've said repeatedly - few people had a problem with them back in the original bloodweb because they showed up so seldom.
We need that rarity back.
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I think moris are way more unfair that keys, keys have harsher requisites than moris.
First of all you can get moried pretty much at the start, the only requisite is to get hooked once and get tunneled, keys on the other hand require you to fix a number of gens and finding the hatch, a 4 men key escape requires 5 gens, that means a full length match, 3 men key escapes are similar, just one less gen but the killer gets to sacrifice one guy, 2 men the killer bags 2 survivors, 1 guy means the killer got 3 and closed the hatch, what im trying to say is keys might be unfair (they are, especially in 2 men escapes) but even if they pull it out the killer still gets something for its time, some chases, some kills, hooks, some fun etc. But the first and the second guys moried get pretty much nothing except a -1 and maybe 8k and the other 2 are left in a match with almost no hope of surviving except for a hatch escape.
Second moris are very abundant, keys not so much.
With all that being said, I wouldnt mind the removing of keys if they remove ebony and ivory moris, the cypress one can stay as it just means the last survivor is getting moried instead of hooked.
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I think they're fair and they can be fun to play against. Its nice to actually be afraid of the killer and not just have second chance after second chance queued up. I think they need to change ebony down to two kills from 4. Other than that they're fine.
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I have over 40 ebony moris on Demogorgon alone.
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I find them to be fair, yes eliminating one person can hurt the entire survivor team, but now you have to think about how long they could have distracted you, and how long the mori is to the point that survivors can actually get a good amount of gens done
They are really as fair as keys imo
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I think they’re kind of unfair but I will sometimes use one if I think I’m up against a 4-man SWF. Voice comms are even more unfair and with a mori I can even the odds.
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The ebony mori is definetly busted, since it basically reduces the killers' objective by 2/3, and it promotes toxicity. On the ivory I'm a bit torn because it has the same flaws of the ebony, but it's not so impactful on the survivors. The cypress is ok, it's more about the cool factor.
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Moris are most definitely not "fair" otherwise people wouldn't disconnect straight away during the offering screen to cancel the match.
I rarely use moris myself because I always notice how much easier the game is if the first survivor literally gets thrown out of the game within a minute. The thing is though moris are -animation wise- awesome. Everytime a new killer gets released I immediately search for a mori clip.
Question is how do you keep moris without making them irrationally strong while keeping them useful?
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Good question.
I'm not one of the people who thinks moris should be removed because I like them in the game. I think they would be more balanced with an additional requirement. On top of the survivor having to be hooked once, the killer should also have to hook another survivor in order to activate the mori on the first person.
As it stands now, whoever gets hooked first in a match with a mori present usually gets camped and/or tunneled and removed from the match with like 3k points. The killer should be required to go apply pressure to someone else and get another hook before they're allowed to mori that first person.
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In a competitive sense no they're obviously not but they are fun. One of the few ways to make any killer a huge threat.
Makes hidden offerings a more thrilling on the edge experience as survivor since the killer can actually kill you easier.
Keys aren't fun you just poof there is no cool animation either.
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It's definitely frustrating, once you're hooked you know it's over for you, there is almost no chance especially when the killer wants his kill so bad he'll tunnel from the second you get unhooked.
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I think moris themselves are fair because we are playing a HORROR GAME but I must admit that killers who tunnel their moris are scummy. I think moris should be activated under one of two conditions: everyone must be hooked first or the survivor is on their death hook.
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Fair? Not remotely. The Mori is essentially an official griefing mechanic that bypasses the intended game flow to completely ruin a match for at least one person, while also damaging the killer's Sacrifice score. As a survivor, you can't plan around it or do anything different to account for it. Once you know it is in play, it's too late.
Keys are a different story. The killer can see them in the lobby and counterpick Franklin's Demise or other slowdown perks. During the match, you can see items in survivors' hands. You know as well as they do when the hatch has spawned, and you can look for it and chase them away from it. I'm not saying this situation is remotely perfect, but there are actions you can take to account for the presence of a key in a match. You can't do this with a Mori.
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Most of the time, I only bring a mori as a deterant. If you wanna dress as 4 identicle looking survivors to try to trick me into eating a DS... I got something for that. Of course, I dont have to actually USE it, but I can still bring it to avoid shenanigans.
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No I dont
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No moris are as overpowered as keys, because they shorten the objective of one side drastically.
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With the current state of the game in which a gen can be done in 30 seconds before you can even get to it, yes they are fair.
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yea they fine
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Not at all. They are for baby killers who are just bad at the game.
Change the requirement to Mori someone after you hook everyone at least once before.
Unfortunately for Killers, secret offerings make my PC crash :(
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Ivory and Cypress moris are fine. Ebony Mori is also fine against a toxic 4 man SWF but not against randoms. The game knows which survivors are SWF so why can't they let the killer use Ebony Mori against 3 or 4 man SWF? Maybe make another mori for killing 2 people against toxic 2 man SWF.
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No. I don't understand why there is a debate about any of this. You should never lose a game from the loadout screen. Just make Moris a default option on death hook as a way to save killers hook time depending on location. I suppose you could make D strike work for Moris as well. Stop giving out instant wins and stop rewarding failure with second chances.
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One reason I kinda just roll my eyes everytime I see a red box on my bloodweb for Bubba. Bubba has no UR addons, so thats a 100% ebony mori. Wish it would give me a blackward or something.
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They’re mostly fine but need a couple of changes.
They need to activate after the Survivor has been hooked twice and the Cypress Mori needs to become baseline (mainly to reduce the amount of offerings in the Bloodweb and to make the Mori ritual easier). At either of these points, you’re pretty much screwed, so why not go out with a fancy animation instead of just being thrown on the hook?
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moris, while not being perfectly balanced, are a lot more fair than keys imo.
you get a warning the killer runs one, you can play around it, they gut the killers emblems and they are guaranteed to be gone after the game, weather tey got used or not.
keys on the other hand can be taken in by one out of the four survivors and still change the entire flow of the game. it doesnt really matter what you do as a killer, if you kill survivors the hatch will spawn and someone with the key will just jump in (even if you kill the key dude, they usually just swarm the hook then to get the key) and allow themselves and possibly even more survivors to leave early. if you however dont kill them, gens will be getting done and they have the exits available. its literally a lose - lose situation. you cant really play around it eigther, since survivors playermodels tend to hide keys behind their backs in the menu, so you cant even prepare for it properly (especially with a last second switch) and its just annoying to face.
at least moris have an requirement for you to complete before you can use them. keys are just "hey, your team died and you did nothing all game but happened to bring in a certain item? well, you clearly deserved to be handed out this easy escape! :D"
keys are only really broken on SWF tho. especially if one brings a rainbowmap, they are coordinated on gens and can coordinate their hatch escape, so they get the maximum amount of escapees from it.
here is how i would fix keys:
- add an animation to opening the hatch that can be interrupted by the killer
- only allow the key user to escape
- remove / rework the dull key. it is way too strong for an very rare item.
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Are you high?
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Mori's are fun but end the game to early. I only use them on death hook. IMO they need this change
Ebony - Kill all survivors on their death hook.
Green- Kill 2 survivors on death hook.
Yellow- Kill 1 survivor on death hook (remove last condition)
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I'm indifferent to both.
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I think that the cypress is fine, ivory can stay as it is too honestly but the ebony in its current state doesn’t belong in the game. Not even the entity enjoys them. I think you should have to work a bit harder to be able to mori an entire team. Using them feels like a cheap win, which is why I never really use them.
As for keys, we all know they have their moments of “that was bs” but they are incredibly situational in comparison. Yeah keys are strong but as strong as an ebony? No.
Often times keys literally never even get the chance to come into play. The amount of variables there are to get use out of a key, and especially to get multiple people out the hatch means there’s a certain amount of work and luck involved. If having a key made it so the hatch spawned after 2 gens are done I’d say you could compare them to each other. But keys can’t cut your objective by more than half. I have yet to hear a logical argument on why they are stronger. They aren’t.
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i dont know.
are you?
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moris are by no means fair or healthy for the game. its not hard to tunnel someone right off hook and mori them. i dont understand why an offering, which the slot is mostly used for bonus BP’s gives u something more powerful than 4 perks and makes u do 1/3rd if the work to win. its skilless. tie that with an op build and your fun and chance to win is 0
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Pause. Rewind. What?
So you get a warning of a Mori AS you are loading into a match. You generally know if there's a key before the match starts and can prep for it (outside of a key gained from a chest). So in terms of prep time: Mori>Key
Then you talked about requirements for use so let's examine this.
Requirement for Mori: Hook someone ONCE. Next time you find them, they're eliminated from the game. This can potentially happen 30 seconds into a game with an instadown killer.
Requirement for key: If 4 survivors still alive, ALL gens must be completed, then the hatch has to be located and for all 4 to escape, they have to either have SWF comms or has god tier coordination to get everyone to the hatch all without being found by the killer who can close the hatch.
If 3 survivors alive, all but 1 gen must be completed, then hatch has to be located, and same as the rest from above.
If 2 survivors, 3 gens must be completed, then same as above.
And 1 survivor, they have to find the hatch after the killer closes it and use the key. That scenario has the least conditions attached.
There's no situation in which a key can be used in the early phase of a match. So if you want to argue about requirements, then again Mori>Key
So would you like to rethink your argument?
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Not really, but they have their place. If I see a SWF load in and they're bringing 4 addons and at least 2 are toolboxes I'm bringing at least a green but definitely an ebony if there are 3 or more.
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The best I've come up with is modifying the requirements to mori a survivor.
Cypress Mori would allow you to Mori the obsession after the first hook.
Ivory Mori would allow you to Mori 2 survivors once all survivors have been hooked at least once.
Ebony Mori would allow you to Mori all 4 survivors after all 4 have been hooked at least once.
I feel like they'd still be powerful, but you could no longer just tunnel a survivor down.
As for keys. Why not add an extra gen needs to be finished to use the key? So in order to have a 3 man hatch escape all gens would need to be completed. For a two man escape 4 gens need to be done. And 3 gens for a one man escape. This would take pressure off the killers a bit. While still making keys fairly strong.
As a side note. I really wish they'd remove broken keys. Or massively up the aura reading abilities. That or make broken keys require you to succeed a series of skill checks to use to unlock the hatch.
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I mean, flashlights and medkits are what I like to see in my lobbies as killer. It means they'll waste time doing things other than gens.
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Broken keys could just have innate larger aura reading range and longer use and they'd be fine. I actually like to bring skeleton keys in just for the auras since 30 seconds is a lot to have of bond or killer view.
That said, broken keys with the wedding ring are pretty decent.
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you kinda ignored the rest of my comment tho...
for the prep time: how am i, as a killer, supposed to prepare for a key again? the only thing i can do is camp / tunnel the key guy and then patrol the item underneath the hook in order to deny the other survivors the ability to pick it up. this comes at the expense of losing map pressure, which still guts your gameplay. all of that because of a single key, mind you. i also literally said that, unless you specifically look for them in the lobby you wont see them, as survivors love to hide them behind their body if they hold one and the item is very tiny - i also mentioned last second switches (= no prep time at all)
moris on the other hand appear in the offering screen, have a loud soundeffect and are clearly visible to everyone in the trial - and even IF someone happens to miss them, heck they can always press ESC in the trial to show the offerings again. they wont be able to take preparations before they enter the trial, though they have lots of time to do that during the loadingscreen and the trial itself. there are 3, not too hard ways how moris can be avoided: 1) be good at looping (this takes no special preparation), 2) genrush (very common when a mori pops up) and 3) stealth.
=> you can play around moris, yet a killer, ,as i have explained in my previous comment, can not play around the key. the hatc his something that will pop up sooner or later, all the survivor with the key needs to do would be hiding until that happens.
now, i would really advise you to read the rest of my comment aswell, otherwise you're gonna miss a rather important part of it...
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I think cute outfits aren't fair. I can't bring myself to slaughter a man in a sailor outfit or dressed up like Freddy Mercury's ghost. Even cute names make it difficult. Perhaps I'm a survivor at heart. Or just really sexually confused
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I read the entire comment but that part is irrelevant because you shouldn't have to switch your play style if you don't suck. If you're a decent killer, you just kill them all anyway before the gens are done and if one gets out because of a key, then oh well.
The key isn't a factor until late in the game and if you feel like you had to tunnel or camp someone with a key from the start, that says a lot about the killer's ability and confidence in themselves, nothing to do with the item itself. I read the whole comment. I only responded to the relevant parts.
Also they keys are very easy to see pre-game because the characters stance is different. Plus last second switches are rare and hence, irrelevant because they don't happen often enough to matter.
I see you didn't address my two points though which must mean you have no argument to refute that Moris are stronger than keys by any criteria.
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yeah if you say so fam xD
besides, i did address your arguments. some in the post i just wrote and some were already addressed in the post you were commenting on, so i didnt really see the need to repeat myself there. thats why i said you should finish reading before commenting.
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lol if by "already addressed", you're referring to your two false claims that I refuted (That Moris have requirements and somehow keys don't AND you can prep for a Mori but not for a key), then sure. You addressed them. Well done
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