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The solution to hex totems that literally everyone wants!
The solution to the hex totem situation has been said time and time again, its a great solution but i wanna know why exactly its not being done. Make every totem only active once the effect is triggered. So Ruin wont activate til a cursed skillcheck comes up, devour hope won't activate til 2 tokens are achieved, third seal wont activate til someones hit etc etc. Literally everyone wants this and it would make totems being 2nd objective a very active thing so it would also help with Gen times. I just wanna know how come this idea hasn't been implemented yet despite everyone requesting it? (EDIT: I've seen like 20 threads with this suggested with almost no negative feedback which is why I said it was so widely requested stop taking what I said literally yall- also this problem isn't only about totems its also a slight fix to gen times)
Comments
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I don't want this so your argument is invalid.
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Agreed. High risk but high reward is what hex totems are about.
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Simple answer: because not everyone has requested it, and there are lots of people that actually don't want it to be implemented.
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Hold on, killers having to gamble or take a risk? One that could cost them the game?
Its almost like something else in the game is a "gamble" that could be high risk or big reward that constantly is being asked to get a nerf.
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Keys? Bring it and get tunneled but have a chance to get the hatch...
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I understand this yes.
This "change" wouldn't change anything.
So I guess it's a perfect advice for bhvr, looking forward to getting it implemented.
You don't understand. There is no gamble in the first place if the survivor just gets the great skill checks. The simple fact that there is the possibility of getting that great skillcheck already makes Ruin completely useless. It's literally a skill to troll new players.
Why not bump the number of gens that have to be completed to make the game longer?
That would actually make an impact, you know.
Same with Devour Hope. SWF will bait the totem spawn and destroy it.
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If this happened then all totems seen would immediately just get destroyed. No point waiting for it to show up when it can be taken out which in turn makes it a nerf to the likes of NOED at the same time.
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Honestly give mending and totems skill checks but have totems be like an smaller skill check and have ToTH make it smaller
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So if a Hex totem just didn't light up until it became active then Haunted Grounds wouldn't act as a trick totem, it's meant to trick Survivors into thinking ''this is the totem I'm looking for'' but the only way it can do that is if it's lit up and if all Hexes are dull until they are active and you start the match next to a Hex totem that passed the ''line-of-sight'' check that never works then you'd automatically know that's Haunted Grounds.
A lot of people say that totems should not spawn next to Gens, BHVR has countered with ''then where would we put them''? We just laugh and point at hundreds of spots.
BHVR created a ''line-of-sight'' check so if a Survivor spawns in the game would check to see if they are within seeing distance of a totem, this is to prevent Survivors from spawning on it. Sure the totem is directly behind the wall next to them but...they didn't see it...not like they spawned on it...right?
I think the only real fix for a singular totem though would be Huntress Lullaby, Survivors know you have it the second they get on a Gen, it should only appear after the 1st Hook.
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Ewww it sounds good on paper however this sounds like noed. There's always a high chance of noed especially with weak/bad killers yet most teams will rush gens and worry about it later.
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I mean i hunt totems anyway. Though it could be a good idea but also one i see get reverted if ever implemented due to complaints but i can see it working gen times down.
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A lot of issues with Hex perks would be fixed if the developers actually made the totems NOT SPAWN NEXT TO THE GENERATORS IN PLAIN SIGHT!
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I would say most totems are not high reward. Ruin is average reward. as it dosen't slow gen progression by that much and experienced survivors power through it. Third seal is low reward, as blindess is only somewhat powerful, and can be countered by SWF. Huntress' Lullaby is average reward, as it takes quite some time to even get a worthwhile amount of counters on it, and it still gives a visual indicator, only affecting those who focus mostly on the sound. Devour Hope is one of the few I consider High Reward, but it also takes quite some time to get any effect from it. NOED is a strange one as it is High Reward, but requires a totem to remain, and for the game to be at an end for it to even have a chance of doing something, which might be negated by any number of factors. And Haunted Ground and Thrill of the hunt are outliers that don't really fit into the mold of my standard hexes.
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People will break totems even if the totem is "inactive". It doesn't work.
What I'd rather see is some kind of punishment for survivors cleansing, a risk/reward. Is the reward for breaking a totem worth gaining a higher risk? (I don't just mean haunted grounds)
SpaceCoconut had a good idea for this: Make it so they lose a perk for the rest of the trial in order to balance the fact they make the killer lose one of theirs.
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That would just be way too powerful. And removes the risk-reward aspect if its risk-reward-reward.
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Not really. Survivors don't need to rely on perks to win. Killers do for the most part. Every perk choice impacts how they play, and being down just one perk (could even be lost within the first 30 seconds of the game) is such a detriment to them. Killers are on the clock, not survivors.
It's a risk reward for survivors. Survivors would be sacrificing one perk slot because they want to remove one perk slot of the killer's. As of right now, there is only one perk killers can consistently deny, and that is Dead Hard. But that's only if they have an exposed perk. They can't even remove a survivor perk from the match. however, there are multiple killer perks which survivors can remove... as well as pressure them with rushing the objective.
Survivor is infinitely easier than killer, and giving this effect to totems would close the gap a little bit. Sure, survivor got plenty of nerfs, but they're all well deserved when you look at what DBD used to look like.
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It would be a nice addition, but it wouldn't address the main issue that totem spawns are either godlike or completely useless.
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You do realize the only strong killer hex perk in the game rn is pretty much just ruin? Because of the reasons op mentioned. Hex perks are basically giving the survs a physical way to delete a perk permanently from the round. Plus a lot of killers do have plan B's but survs dont like em so much. Aka slugging, camping, tunneling. Killers have to get crazy lucky for a half decent hex spawn tbh for it to last longer than 3 min.
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4-5 of the 7 hex perks in the game are very strong when activated correctly. Third Seal and Thrill of the Hunt aren't great, and maybe Huntress Lullaby could use a buff, but at least 4 of the existing hex perks are absolute gamechangers. The fact that they can be disabled as easily as they can is what makes them balanced. They're meant to be high risk, high reward. The risk is that you won't get any use out of them. That's the point. The only thing that needs to change to make hex perks better is spawn locations on some maps, which the devs are already working on.
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Yeah they say theyre working on the spawns but i will believe it when i see it.
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The results of the vanilla experiment would beg to differ with you on that one.
If both killer and survivors are playing perkless the killer 4ks almost everytime.
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I need to see the data, and know how many hours each participant has within the game before I regard that as credible. It's hard to know if they've only had a half an hour and are bad survivors, or if they are going against high rank killers who know what they are doing, and know they don't have to go against DS and ones that know how to loop.
I'd like the data first, in other words. All of it.
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Of course we'd all like to see spreadsheets of data but thats not going to happen. You made a claim "Survivors don't need to rely on perks to win" and I've pointed to a test done which contradicts this. You didnt even attempt to backup your claim. When choosing participants in the experiment they took into account hours played and roles participants main. Did you participate in the experiment? If you did you can verify this yourself.
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Dislike, ruins the totem roulette build since the unlit ones wouldn't give you warnings with thrill of the hunt
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I'd say yes if Devour Hope didn't exist
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Have to disagree, the issue isn't that there is a risk to the perk but that the RNG factor is so polarizing. There are games where the totem spawns on the other side of the map and you cannot physically get TO the totem before it is broken because sometimes (more often than not it feels) survivors spawn ON the totem. That isn't risk its poor design.
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Everyone knows that some of the totem spawns are problematic, and the devs have already said that's something they're working on. But at the same time, risk is definitionally chance (or, if you prefer, "RNG")-based.
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Yes but risk can also be calculated to an extent and due to the current (planned fixes or not) Ruin doesn't suffer to risk/reward but a polarizing RNG swing.
I'm not arguing that the two share a link of sorts its just that the risk cannot be calculated as it can be small risk (great map/spot) or damn near instantly destroyed with no chance of saving it. The swing is too high to make the risk worth it and yet there are times (like with Hawkins) where the reward can be too high (although you can still power through skillchecks easily enough).
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Again if the totem can be cleansed before you even have the time to get to it (other side of map with survivors literally spawning on it) you have no means to protect it. This is poor design and does need to be fixed (again I know they are looking into it). Their is a difference between poor totem placement, with it spawning next to a gen and then having your perk nullified due to conditions you have 0 control over.
Imagine if I bought a lotto ticket but after I paid in full I was told oh yeah by the way you cannot actually win on that ticket. Yeah we know your odds are always low to win but today we just decided to sell only losing tickets without telling you.
That's not fair risk because you had no idea it was rigged from the start and you had no way of mitigating loss or planing around the odds of winning.
If Ruin was guaranteed to be "uncleansable" for 10 seconds at the start of a match (this isn't an idea I'm suggesting just an example) then you at least have the time to get to your totem asses the spawn situation and try to mitigate poor placement/protect or hope your good spot lasts. Its a risk to run the perk but you had the chance to see the odds.
If you spawn into the match walk instantly to the totem but it gets destroyed because a survivor spawned on it before you even had a chance to protect it let alone look at it then its poor design.
PS: Not spending the time to check spelling so hopefully its not butchered, typing on PS4 sucks...
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At the end of the day, the totem will still activate next to a survivor.
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Wait, what?!? A survivor loses a perk for cleansing a totem? That might be the worst idea I’ve ever seen. Are we even include dulls? So now we are also guaranteeing NOED procs every single time as there is no counter whatsoever. Who in their right mind would lose a perk to cleanse a dull lol. If it’s just hex only though, it’s still awful.
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I believe its for hex totems only.
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A hex shoild never be cleansed within the first 30 seconds imo.
However, a better solution would be to have a the perk still active after the totem is destroyed, but have it be severely nerfed.
Examples: Devour hope will always give you the little speed boost after hooking people no matter what, but the other two effects can only be used while the totem is still standing.
Ruin could cause regular skill checks to pause the gen but not regress it.
Lullaby could keep the missed skill check penalty but only delay/mute the sound while the totem is up.
Etc. Etc. You get the idea. Give hexes a weaker version of themselves after the totem breaks.
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"its a great solution but i wanna know why exactly its not being done."
The forums are not a design committee.
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Or let the killer place his own Hex in any dull totem he wants so Ruin won't be in effect immediately but there would also be a button to randomly set hex across the map if the killer is running distractions like Haunted grounds and so on to save time.
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More like high risk, no reward. They're guaranteed to go down in under a minute.
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If you chase a survivor off your totem and get into a chase with them you not only A) Get into a chase but B) Keep that totem alive. Why else do you think Thrill of the Hunt exist? If you immediately dismiss protecting a totem as a possible tactic for the situation your in, then you do not see the bigger picture of the match. Yes you should expect that totem to eventually fall as spending your whole game going for the totem will result in a loss but far more often than not you will find that protecting the totem leads to quick chases (as people try to get rid of it) and makes survivors spend time trying to hunt that totem down.
"If you think that's part of the objective as killer, you're playing the wrong game" - No I'm weighing my options and making a tactical decision based on the situation the match is in.
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We've come a long way from how hexes used to be. While I'm sure there is some room for improvement, we no longer have the "lit up totem" in the middle of the street or on top of the hill of shame.
This change that the OP has requested is unnecessary. Totems have to be findable and removable to justify their power.
Now, if you want to say certain hexes just aren't powerful enough to justify being a totem, that's a discussion we can have.
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Not really if the totem spawns infront of a survivor the killer cant stop the cleanse and using up a second spot with thrill of the hunt isnt a good use of perks. Much like how survivors dislike pairing up 2 subpar perks to make a decent combo
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I don't want this either
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So then is it also a dirty tactic for survivor to do a hex they see right after spawning? No, of course not. The difference here is that the killer has no choice of where the hex spawns and they have no power to prevent this from happening. A survivor has the power to lead a killer on a chase. It is skill based. (Yes, it does take some level of skill to loop a killer, even if it is easy.) There is counterplay to the killer immediately finding you, and there is counterplay to facecamling that can make the killer lose the match. There is no counterplay to someone spawning on a hex.
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Is it your opinion that hex perks are not flawed?
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Plan B is the same as Plan A. Kill everyone.
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Learn how to play without ruin. It's not needed like every killer complains about.
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I don't get why salty survivor mains keep commenting stuff like this lol.
I mean you bring ruin and its instantly goes down so you resort to plan B which is.....exactly the same? Even with something like devour hope, no experience killer goes in expecting to get much use out of it and even if they did they still wouldn't play any differently with it gone except having one less objective to patrol. It's also not about risk its about the RNG of the totem spawning on top of a gen or hidden at the back of the map.
ANYWAY, interesting side effect of this would be haunted grounds. Good survivors would be able to predict and counter it
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Again, it's not as bad as you think, since it's only one perk, and survivors still use 4 even though it's not necessary for them to survive. A good survivor will still make it out. A good killer requires perks to do well at least more often.
A killer is losing a perk of theirs during cleansing of a Hex perk, yet there is no way for a killer to do the same for survivors.
Besides, you're thinking all survivors lose 1 perk, but only the cleanser would. I recommend watching SpaceCoconut's vid on this. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tJ57Ir_fE&t=457s
NOED has a counter. It's called doing the totems. If you don't do that, don't blame yourself. Bring Small Game if you don't know where they all are.
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They don't. They are the power role in the game, looking at red rank survivors is proof of this. Perks help them escape more easily, but they can still do so if they are stealthy enough.
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I almost never use Ruin, but I still don't think the risk should be a gamble of RNG. DbD is thought of by the devs as a very "player action" oriented game, where one player's actions have to be countered by the actions of their opponent.
There are many possible solutions to this hex issue, if you even think that hexes as a concept are flawed. There is no perk in the game that should be your entire game plan, including hexes. The perks are there to boost your chances of winning and to change your playstyle (or adjust the gameplay to maximize your playstyle.) My point is that hexes do not fit this idea. They are extremely powerful, but it is entirely based on luck whether or not you even get to have them during the match at all. If the devs disagreed with me on this, they would have never tmadded patches hiding totems better or adjusted their spawn location to not be within line of sight of survivor spawns.
Really something we have been asking for for a long time and still haven't gotten is to prevent totems from spawning within 10 meters of a generator or hook.
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Also nobody here has an unbiased view. The moment you say that your view is perfect, you have lost the ability to see any disagreement as valid. When you don't think valid disagreement is possible, you are not credible as being a reasonable person. And of course, being unreasonable is very very close to being illogical.
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Seems like the majority do though and most hex perks could use these changes, as Hex Third Seal and Lullaby aren’t really worth running.
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