So I just read the Spirit nerf and uh..... what's the big deal?
Like really. What are all these people crying and being dramatic about?
Her basekit was not touched. She should've never had collision to begin with. MAYBE, you can argue that the window vault changes were unnecessary because mind games are a part of her character.
And then all of the add on nerfs were either very small, or in the case of prayer beads MUCH needed and justified. Literally everyone, survivor or killer main knew those were OP.
So like, what is this HUGE overkill nerf people are crying about?
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People will cry over any nerf, it doesn't really matter how small or big it is. They could nerf 1 thing by 10% and people will declare the thing dead. While these changes were needed, they still haven't fixed the core problem of spirit standing still and survivors not knowing if she's phasing or not, and where is she, until it's too late. It's slightly better at windows as now you will know if she's vaulting, but not if she's phasing.
She needs to be changed more if they want to fix her issues imo, but we will see how these changes pan out.
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Agreed about people crying over everything but I disagree about knowing whether she's phasing or not when she stands still. That's part of the fun of the character as her whole gimmick is mindgames. If you remove that from her, she'll be boring to play against. I don't think there should be a clue besides the wind rushing sound to tell you when she's phasing
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Her gimmick needs to go, it's not fun or fair to go against or play with imo. Its just a guessing game on the survivors side, which I don't want in DBD. On the killer side it's too easy and my mind state is basically "yeah yeah I'm spirit, good luck when you don't even know where I am." But that's my opinion.
"time for a true display of skill! -stands still-" This has become a running joke between my close friends who play killer when they play spirit. It's not fun to win just because the character you're playing makes skill irrelevant.
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This nerf is barely a nerf. The collision detection is the biggest one, but I don't think that will impact the really good Spirit players very much. Vault animation is a wash, since it's usually just generally a bad idea for the killer to vault anyway. And I guess the post-phase speed change remains to be seen, but I don't see that being a make-or-break change.
I can't speak much to the add-ons, since I have literally never used one of her add-ons in all the time I have been playing her, so I just have a massive war chest of every single Spirit item. Prayer Beads nerf seems pretty warranted, though.
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I'm glad they took it no farther than necessary..the nurse was giving everyone bad vibes..however the collision change is bigger than many know..now good spirits didnt rely on bumping and itll make spirits need to learn phasing times so that way spirits have to give survivors a moment to react..seems they finally realized they were going too far
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On a more reasonable level, I think some of the addons, especially the amulet and charge addons were overnerfed, but overall I'm glad it wasn't as bad as what they did with Nurse and her basekit.
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People want to be able to bully other people because they're very sad human beings. That's it
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I think you're vastly underestimating how big all 3 base kit nerfs she received are.
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Nerfs are unpleasant in general even if its a slight nerf there will be people that are rubbed the wrong way (this goes for killers and survivors). That being said from what i see most killers and strong Spirit supporters are fine with this and even the ones that dislike only kinda dislike it.
Im just wondering if there will be more nerfs in the future. Im skeptical that this is it.
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I don't think it's that significant either besides Beads of course :p
However, if they're going to nerf the top killer, then they should at least buff two of the weaker ones.
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I think its more that we've had 3 killers "changed" in the last year, and 1 rework that took years.
They're hauling ass to tone down the top killers and then doing ######### all for low tier buds.
Even further they seem to be tuning them to be easier to play against at the expense of their diversity.
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Calling it now. People will still complain about Spirit and say she needs more nerfs.
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Other then the vault animation I personally didn't mind.
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If we're gonna complain about nerfs over the last year, I can open up a can of "survivors have received two-three times more nerfs in the past year than killers".
But that's a different argument for a different day XD
I do think a few killers could use some buffs, but they're all playable and I have fun (and get 3ks and 4ks) playing with the killers people consider trash (Trapper, Wraith, Bubba)
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This response misses the point so hard i don't know what to say lol
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It's almost like killer and survivor balance was in a completely different place a year ago, with survivors being vastly overtuned.
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Its weird that the nerfs come swiftly, while reworks take years.
Remember the wraith cube? I do. Garbage. Freddy is the first decent rework and it took literally years.
oh i guess hag is better now.
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Knowing whether she is phasing or not will nerf her into oblivion in chases in addition to the collision removal. The collision removal was the only REAL thing she needed aside from addon changes. With no collision, you can now manipulate your scratch marks as to where she will not know where you are. You can run in a straight line, and run backwards, and it's a guessing game for the Spirit now where you are. Previously you couldn't do this because she would bump into you. It adds a survivor sided guessing game vs the Spirit that was much needed. Knowing whether she's phasing or not removes her ability to mind game you. Besides, there actually are ways to know if she's phasing or not, even if they're subtle.
Add Iron Will into the mix with the bump changes and it'll be extremely hard for a Spirit to find you if you mind game her.
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What exactly did they nerf?
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Standing still is mindgames, now that survs can do it. lul
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Sounds are terrible right now so the collision nerf on top of that is kinda dumb
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Not really, she still moves at 176% speed at base, add sounds and scratch marks into the mix and you're still not likely to get away. Lets not forget you have to walk unless you want to run into her (for a free hit) so you don't leave scratch marks, so you're only at 56% speed. So in total she has 120% speed on you (that's almost default Billy speed advantage with chainsaw while she can go in any direction freely), while she can hear your footsteps, breathing, and if you're injured you're screwed. No we don't "throw iron will into the mix" because
A) perks aren't counterplay against killers. We shouldn't have to run perks good against 1 or 2 of 17 killers because they're unbalanced.
B) Stridor says hi
C) You still hear footsteps even in the worse case scenario
D) Scratch marks and moving grass lead her near you, into sound range. At the worst back onto the survivor.
Knowing she's phasing alone won't do too much, we also need something else. She either needs omnisound so she can't tell direction, loss of scratch marks, an indication of where she's at for the survivors, or something else. The community has given plenty of alternatives. She won't be garbage, she will be fairer. Spirit problems, in the simplest terms, is she gives the survivors no info while she gets a boatload and a speed boost, on a low cooldown, with no downsides besides losing the body of the survivor in a game where sound and scratch marks matters more.
Her clues are too subtle. Tiny shards glowing on her body is not good enough when skins, lighting, LOS, and the survivor looking where they're going for 2 seconds can get in the way. Footsteps are not good enough if they're so light you need to be on a rainy map and without chase music to hear them. She needs changes.
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her power has cooldown you know..
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"on a low cooldown"
Don't respond if you didn't read the post please.
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You can't tell exactly where a survivor is if you hear footsteps. If you're running from Spirit, she phases, and you walk in the opposite direction for a bit, she might know you're in the general area, but without collision she could attack with you behind her, with you a decent distance away from her, or she could keep going thinking you're running in the other direction. She has a specific time limit she's invisible, she doesn't usually have enough time to determine precise location before her phasing wears off. Even better, you also have the option of running, stop running, and then walk in the direction you were running, leading her to think that you turned around, which will make her lose even more distance. This gives survivors a way to mind game the Spirit back imo.
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So far, I've definitely seen a majority of people agree/comply with the changes. I personally didn't really want Spirit touched, but was willing to meet in the middle for changes.
For me, these changes were the middle.
Honestly, the only people who are complaining are those who vehemently wanted no Spirit changes OR those who just want her gone. IE, edge cases.
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Sadly, that's just negligence. But really has no tie between Spirit and her changes.
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She hears your footsteps, turns in that general direction, unphases, sees you,and uses the speed boost after she can see you to hit you. You can tell where a survivor is well enough. I've chased survivors from the other side of walls and floors because of footsteps.
If you walk she hears you and catches up anyway to hit you since you're slowed by 44% and she gets a 66% speed boost. If you run she sees scratch marks and hears you, catches up to hit you since she's moving at 176% (without add-ons). She has enough time to find you otherwise collision would not have been an issue at all. It's a lose lose for the survivors. She does not give survivors enough ways to mind game, the player behind her can if they are bad or can't afford headphones, but the Spirit herself does not.
You're assuming the Spirit is deaf in these scenarios where you double back, she's not. If I hear survivors turn around, so do I. The survivors also move grass while Spirit doesn't, so she can follow that if its around. Decent spirit, or killers in general, can hear where survivors are well enough to hit them around corners, let alone running or walking around them.
I also don't see how if she can hear you, you are a "decent distance away". If she can hear you she's close, that's part of the problem.
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If sounds remain terrible and the chase music being so loud unless you live and breathe spirit it'll affect spirit not to mention we have no idea if they'll stealth nerf the spirit to make it completely obvious to tell when she's phasing which will destroy her on top of these nerfs but that all depends if the devs decide to do it
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Unnecessary nerf on the Spirit.
Adding animation for window vault:
This was a high skill strategy for Spirit users. You force a mind game with the survivor and make them guess if you're vaulting or not. If they guessed wrongly, they are punished for it. By adding animation for the Survivors, the high skill ceiling for Spirit is removed.
No longer silent prayer beads:
Another nerf to the high skill ceiling of the Spirit. By making the sound global, now everyone will know when to start hiding. The silent prayer beads is a skill-expressive add-on. Only good Spirit users know when to use it to yionk surivors off generators and use it to hunt on the map. This just completely removes another skill-based aspect of Spirit.
Overall the changes just dumb down the Spirit from a high-skill, high-reward killer to a random nobody. A good Spirit player could get 4k in around 70% of matches. With this gutting of the killer, there is no more distinction between a good and bad Spirit player
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"Adding animation for window vault:
This was a high skill strategy for Spirit users. You force a mind game with the survivor and make them guess if you're vaulting or not. If they guessed wrongly, they are punished for it. By adding animation for the Survivors, the high skill ceiling for Spirit is removed."
I'm all about mindgames, but a missing vault animation is not one of them. Plus, window mind games are common with any killer. Ever stand in front of a window but not actually vault it? Only to turn the corner and slap the survivor in the face? Yeah, it's satisfying. Plus, her passive phase is practically meant for the same mind game... At all times.
"No longer silent prayer beads:
Another nerf to the high skill ceiling of the Spirit. By making the sound global, now everyone will know when to start hiding. The silent prayer beads is a skill-expressive add-on. Only good Spirit users know when to use it to yionk surivors off generators and use it to hunt on the map. This just completely removes another skill-based aspect of Spirit."
If the survivors are hiding, they're not doing gens. Add a duration addon and you're gonna have them hiding for half the game.
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"So like, what is this HUGE overkill nerf people are crying about?"
I haven't seen a HUGE amount of crying over the nerf. Prayer Beads was expected by pretty much everyone and I haven't seen any complaints about it. Personally, I don't think a lot of the nerfs were warranted but at the same time she'll still be playable. So meh.
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I can definitely see how Spirit would be considered too strong, but I also don't think people complaining is the only reason she's getting changes.
I don't want her gone, and I don't mind changes, or do you mean the only ones complaining about the changes specifically? If that was what you meant then woops, I thought you meant complaining about Spirit completely. My biggest problem with Spirit though isn't any of the above(except for collision). It's more with how players will use her to tunnel people down. It just takes away a lot of the fun of Spirit when playing Survivor when you get a Spirit who's just leaving the hook, then phasing back to down you once you get unhooked, and sadly I see this all too often.
Then sometimes she's so good chases are nonexistent. I think that's a big reason people don't find her fun to play against. The chase is what survivors enjoy the most. When you're not even really getting to run, it's kind of like going from gen simulator to hook simulator.
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The changes specifically.
I personally never really thought her changes were just from crying survivor mains, but I think they did get BHVR to focus more on their stats. Because apparently addons like the Saya were overperforming... Who knew?
I just find it hilarious that a majority of people, both survivor and killer, can agree on changes being a good middle ground, and those bozos are still crying that "she's f tier" or "it wasnt enough"
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Yeah, I agree. But I only really care if a change is balanced or not. I mean the Spirit COULD potentially be too strong even after these changes, but we'll need to see. I'd rather they not change anything else though unless she's still overperforming.
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Collision and no vaulting animation were part of her basekit.
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Any nerf whatsoever to a killer that can be beaten by a good survivor team is a huge deal. Apparently survivors can have all the fun they want, relaxed on discord, goof off doing whatever, make a couple of smart plays here and there, but a killer can't have the slightest advantage at a window with a killer that has special powers or use an expensive addon and have fun with it. I'm not even a spirit main and I find it appalling.
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Spirit changes are okay and I'm in the "Spirit is fine" army.
The only change I take issue with is Amulet. Like I get it was really strong and I'd be okay with a nerf but this is WAY too much. Reducing speed is like the last thing I want as a Spirit. IDC if it let's me phase forever, speed>duration any day. Currently it's like having 3 yellow add-ons. Should have just toned down the numbers so it's more like 3 brown add-ons. I don't see myself using this one much anymore, I really hope this change doesn't make it through the PTB.
And I'm skeptical that the removal of collision will play out like people expect. It could open a whole new can of worms honestly. Old Freddy had some tech he could do with no collision (mostly with windows but still) so I imagine that Spirit players will find ways to take advantage of this, which just results in trading one devil for another.
Also Prayer Beads needed a change, but these new ones might be really bad. Someone did point out it's an indirect buff to SWF since those in your group can just call out if she is phasing or not when you are being chased. Plus I'm mildly upset that it no longer synergizes with Insidious, Spirit really was the only killer that could use this perk outside of face camping (Insidious procs on the husk, so if you wait a half second before phasing, your husk will have no TR once your phase actually starts and with Prayer Beads it means no one could ever tell if you were standing there or phasing at any distance, it was a lot of fun). Again, Prayer Beads OP plz nerf, but I would have preferred something different. Better than nothing I suppose.
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Having no vaulting animation was part of her base kit? I think that's just an unintended bug that they never patched. And collision... Yes that was part of the base kit but the power is still the same.
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You lost me at the "high skill" part.
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For a highly skilled Spirit player, it is possible to get 4k with few or even 0 chases. With the changes to the beads and collision, it will no longer be possible to "feel" where the Survivors are and yoink them off a generator.
Good luck trying to get 4k with 0 chases after the patch hits.
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#DeleteSpirit
jk
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IDK either what the problem is, I am fine with those nerfs, I still wonder why the vault nerf because you can see the red stain moving slowly across the window. That is pretty obvious to see as survivor but okey xD.
The only thing that annoys me is the amulette nerf, why?? There was literly no reason to it but well it could get worse Legion.
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Her PHASING is still the same.
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What about that "adjusted speed" at zhe end of the phase? Sounds like wriaths uncloaking speed curve, which wouldnt need a ptb to show it being a dumb change.
Not a spirit player crying out, just interested in what changed.
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Well, we've not seen it yet, but it does seem to be what they're hinting at.
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Uncertainty makes people stressed out; you might feel genuinely anxious by the fact you can't predict her with 100% accuracy. Although, it's not like her standing still is a guaranteed hit, survivors can still outsmart her in these moments, it's just less reliable than vs other killers. It's not unfair, it's just different. She can actually strike fear into people.
As a side note, the advantage she gains at stand offs is more or less balanced by her slower movement speed. Consider how long it takes to chase survivors and land a hit as a faster killer, and then consider how long it takes the spirit to do the same. They're about the same; the spirit just reduces the effectiveness of looping, or rather, she's strong where other killers are weak.
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You might feel anxious, others, including myself, just feel like "well guess its time to flip the coin". It is unfair, you don't get sound, grass, scratchmarks, or get a massive speed boost on the survivor side. It is, by definition, unfair. The problem is it's too unfair. She doesn't strike fear, she strikes frustration with her gamble like play style you need to take as a survivor, that's weighed heavily against you. Standing still is not a guaranteed hit, don't know who said that. But everything she does put together will net you a hit most of the time much faster than other killers.
She is not balanced by her movement speed. 5% speed loss is not enough to make up for her multitude of strengths. You're acting like her power doesn't exist, which is a disingenuous argument. Those chases are not going to last nearly as long as a chase with Clown or Wraith. They are over much, much faster, otherwise she wouldn't be "over-preforming". She's strong everywhere. In the open, at loops, at pallets, at windows, at the shack, on hook, everywhere. So yeah she's strong where other killers are weak, but she's too strong in her current state and these nerfs are not doing much to address the actual issues, so she will probably be nerfed again as she will still probably be over-preforming. It's something, but it's not enough.
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As a survivor main who actually enjoys playing against Spirit, these nerfs are fine and she doesn't need to be nerfed anymore. We don't need her to be a weak killer.
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New rule, whoever says the term "overperforming" unironically has their opinion ignored, because we don't actually know anything about stats. We have BHVR's word on it, but we don't have an open API for us to check stats with.
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