Question for the devs about the Oni
Hello BHVR dev team,
As you created and tested the Oni, what counterplay did you have in mind?
So far the only "counter" I could find is suicide in a locker to cancle his power.
Is there some other things I overlook?
How did you design the Oni?
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from what iv'e seen stealth is like really good at him since if you just wait out the power then your fine but yeah your right there isn't any like chase counter play also id wait a bit to see what people come up with instead of complaining about give it a month or two
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Well, stealth almost counters every killer, but perks like Whispers counters stealth strongly, so in the end you are only save within a locker...but those damn crows! 😉
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Windows
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Myers M1 and Leatherface chainsaw are similar, just stealth yourself and heal up I guess? Still trying to find counters.
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He can hit you through windows, even if you are on the other side.
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Be quicker to the window.
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Against Myers I can deny his stalk or delay it, no such thing against the Oni. And against Myers you still can use pallets, windows and loops, you just have to drop and leave earlier.
And a Hillbilly can be juked, windows and some sharp corners also helps you against a Hillbilly. But it is hard, I admit.
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Literally the exact same counter as almost every other killer on the entire roster...looping.
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Not really. Did you played against the Oni on PTB? Looping during his powers isn't viable. He is too mobile, one shots pallets and yourself if he hits you.
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Yes, he can't turn even remotely as fast as a survivor can to loop pallets. His mobility is only downing a survivor that is being oblivious and has terrible pathing. His power doesn't counter loops at all.
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You're right, if you're in the open though you're definitely dead from his demon strike... You don't even need to hold down the M1 button to get the insta-down ability.
You only have to hold it for literally a fraction of a second and it'll count as an insta-down, clicking will obviously be a normal attack akin to Myers Tier l lunge.
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Stealth doesn't actually counter every killer equally.
Slow killers, like Nurse, Spirit, and Huntress (less Hag but I'll get into that) are more countered by stealth than normal speed killers like Billy. If you hide in an area, a Billy can more thoroughly search the area in the same time frame because of his faster movement. He also isn't as susceptible to stealth jukes where you may be hiding on the other side of a window and slow vault as he passes around the corner. Or even that you walk around some LOS blocker as he searches. He is more likely to see you making these jukes because he is faster. By contrast Spirit (who people have such a problem with apparently) can be more easily stealth juked because it's much easier to walk around a LOS blocker or slow vault a window without her seeing it. Nurse is the MOST effected by stealth, which is why the meta builds on her revolve around tracking perks.
And Whispers is anti-stealth yes, but not infallible. If you have a survivor hooked or slugged nearby it's not going to help. It will give you an idea where to look, or let you know that you're not chasing your own tail sometimes, but it won't actually help you find the survivor faster if they know how to stay on the move and break LOS. Again, normal speed killers can take full advantage of Whispers due to their ability to search an area faster. But slow killers can still be stealth juked, and in some cases Whispers can cause a killer to was a ton of time looking for you.
Now Hag is a bit of an exception because she can place traps in spots where she searched and unless you have Urban Evasion it will be hard to stealth juke her without settting off the trap. Still same rules apply, she just has an option to counter stealth no other slow killers have.
Also Doctor is completely anti-stealth. Unless you have Calm Spirit and Distortion (to avoid aura read add-ons) he can still find you. And even then, his illusion Docs can reveal your position. Granted Doc isn't a top tier killer, but he does make stealth pretty much impossible. Unless you want to hide lockers all game at which point you are doing a whole lot of nothing to progress your escape.
This is why it bugs me when people say "stealth isn't a real counter". It is. If you bait a killer to search for you and waste time, that's as good as wasting time in a chase. If they are checking some jungle gym tile and you walk away without being seen, then they are just looking for nothing. As a Spirit main I can confirm that the majority of times when I lose a game it's because of strong stealth players. The rest of the times is because of survivors that actually know what to do in a chase against Spirit, but those are honestly rare. But I mean, you can't get chased and die if you never get found. And I've won games myself as survivor purely from strong stealth plays. It is indeed a valid counter and anyone that says otherwise honestly, probably just sucks at doing it. Like I can't tell you how often I find survivors, usually a p3 Claud, just hiding in a corner or a bush thinking I'm blind. That's not stealth play. That's hoping the killer is too blind and/or too stupid to think you might be hiding there. I also don't consider locker usage to be proper stealth play since you are immobile. All it takes is for the killer to have a "hunch" you are in a locker, at which point you are screwed. If you exit the locker at this point, you will be seen or heard almost definitely. Locker stealth should be used sparingly. I personally only use it if I have to pee mid-game or feed my cat or something.
So if stealth is a valid counter to wait out a power (which is is for Myers and Plague) then it should be a valid counter to Oni as well (assuming it works as well, if it doesn't that's a different story).
All that said, I don't have the PTB I can't play as or against this killer therefore I can't really form an opinion about what kind of counters he has. Maybe he needs some nerfs to make him better to play against, but again I don't know. Have to play it myself to find out. Can't rely on testimony of anyone, especially after only 3 days, and videos don't really paint a great image since the PTB is all mixed ranks and I'm not the one in control.
One last thing... I see a lot of parroting in this thread. I know Scott and Tofu just put out videos about this, but you are literally just repeating what they said. Maybe that adds credence to their claims, but it's hard to read through this thread without thinking to myself "this guy has absolutely 0 opinions of his own and just repeats things he heard another player say". Sorry but that's how it comes off, maybe you are genuine... but dude it's like the EXACT wording Scott used in his video. Like... c'mon.
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Scott jumped the gun on calling him uncounterable I think.
He is an extremely skilled killer. True that he tested with Oh Tofu who is a very skilled player as well, but finding counterplay always takes longer than just learning to use the power.
Just as you can't balance around potato ranks, you also can't just balance around a man who plays DBD 12 hours a day for a living.
For Oni to be uncounterable at loops, you have to be very obvious with your pathing as survivor and they have to perform theirs flawlessly, it won't be that common for most of the player base.
He is strong no doubt, but I'm sure a Nurse that NEVER makes a mistake is far stronger, and that doesn't really happen, so why expect Oni players won't ever make a mistake either?
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Um..you can avoid the first hit as long as possible..till then he has nothing..you cant hide from michael forever..same with the oni..he has all the same counters Billy and michael do..and one I know would work against the dash specifically
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I just played and tested it on the PTB, I know I am not the best survivor in the world, but pretty decent. I mainly play Hag but also other killers and with good headphones and a certain understanding how survivors play, that's why I ever so often weave in a survivor play to understand them better, their pathing and how I perceive the game from the survivors side, I can counter them fairly well.
Maybe after 2 days it is too early to cast a verdict, but so far I find it pretty hard to counter a good Oni, not someone who just figure out how he works.
As Oni I find it fairly well to find my first survivor and with his power and Infectious Fright it is disgusting how fast you can snowball (there goes your stealth right out the window, unless you bring Calm Spirit and or Iron Will) and if you get hit or heal someone, there will be a nice path of blood orbs towards you.
Even if you play stealthy, you still need to do gens, unhook or in the end either get the hatch or open the gates. So far I could always find everyone.
I didn't see those videos so far, but if multiple players come to the same conclusion, maybe there is some truth in it?
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It is WAY too early to discuss counterplay. This is not a nurse tier killer.
For God's sake LET STRONG KILLERS EXIST. Otherwise, we will all keep playing spirit and Billy, Freddy of course too.
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Oni seems very map dependent
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