Straight up question for the devs. Do you plan to do ANYTHING for killers dealing with SWF?
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They've also admitted to lying so.....
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Bear in mind that there's a difference between lying and not being able to keep a promise. Link me to where they admitted to lying.
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I hear the constant "we want to buff killers to match SWF power"
How? And when was this ever done? Spirit, the only killer post-Nurse rework able to take on SWF groups, just got nerfed and lost that ability along with it.
And I know I'm gonna hear the "If you need a BS OP killer to deal with SWF then you have an issue". No I don't. The fact that you NEED a BS OP killer to deal with SWF means SWF is the same levels of BS and OP. If it's not getting nerfed, which I don't think it should, then there needs to be some sizable killer buffs en masse.
Post edited by Mandy on3 -
https://youtu.be/pF4159PR9rY it's one minute into the video
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He probably shouldn't have phrased it like that, given how this community likes to pick up on things, but I would take context into account a bit more than you're doing in this case. The question was "Will we ever get to play as Vigo?" Mcote's response ("No, but we've lied before") was likely referring to the fact that they have lied about the existence of upcoming features in the past in order to protect the surprise, and may be doing the same here with Vigo.
This is different - they have never lied and said that they were planning to do something when they weren't. Lying by saying that they aren't working on something when they are is different from saying that they are working on something when they are not. The first is misdirection, the second is a false promise.
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Here's a fix idea.
Make perks cost points in a buildout. You get more points when solo. You get fewer points when in a group of 3 or 4.
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What the heck did I just read lmao
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Just do what Tru3 said, "since everything gets done faster by SWF, reduce action speeds for every person in the SWF to make up for it."
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Handicapping SWF players will never work. It sounds good on paper, but in practice all it will do is encourage people to queue solo and lobby dodge until they get their friends in order to avoid the handicap.
Also, it's just not good for the health and longevity of the game to punish people for playing with their friends. People wanting to SWF is how a huge chunk of the playerbase got into the game in the first place, so adding a handicap to SWF will seriously turn off a lot of new players.
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These perks have helped me with SWF teams and even regular games: Discordance, Thrill of the Hunt (if I'm using a hex like Ruin), Nurses Calling (since they like to heal each other or heal nearby when someone is being chased or about to be hooked), Iron Maiden (since they sometimes hide in lockers near where their friend is going to be hooked), and Pop Goes the Weasel (for damaging gens they were quickly finishing), Infectious Fright (for those that like to hang out nearby when they're friend is being chased and is wounded), and Thanatophobia (for slowing them down on everything). Just figure out what works best for you.
Also Hex: Devour Hope if you don't camp and Hex: Haunted Ground if you're fast at finding survivors (if not then it might not be good for you).
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Any experienced survivor will know it's either
1. You are being chased, or
2. Do gens
You don't need voice comm to tell you which one of the two you should be doing.
Things are supposed to be easy for you, if it's not, it's someone elses fault.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Fair enough.
I enjoy being able to play as SWF. I don't entirely mind playing against SWF (with the right mentality). What irks me is when I play solo and I'm paired alongside a 3-man SWF and I'm treated like chum. I wish there was more protection and that I wasn't relegated to that pre-credits kill.
Or worse. You outplay that SWF and have to endure their written abuse.
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Also fair enough. While it's natural for people to want to look out for their friends above strangers, there are planned improvements to give solo survivors access to the same levels of information that SWF players have, which should help somewhat with making the solo experience less miserable.
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Essentially this.
All the people complaining about SWF as if they are some big, bad, unstoppable force are really missing the forest for the trees.
On a balanced map every killer has the potential to win the game against every group of survivors. On a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka? Not really. That points to the fact that the issue is not SWF, but how bad some (more than some?) of the maps are. I've seen such little talk about this, when it is so obviously the biggest glaring issue in the game.
I have about 2k hours in the game, close to 50/50 in each role. All of my time (except after rank reset) is spent at rank 1 on both sides. When I was first starting out, sure, I thought that some matches were impossible to win from the get-go. But, like, it's just not true. On a decent map, no matter what killer you are, you are always capable of winning. SWF is not the issue. How badly designed some of the maps are is the issue.
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Heard Oni is doing pretty well against SWF team, any planned nerfs so all survivors can bully him? ;)
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Might i ask what SWF is?
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That's very accurate. A game in which 5 gens pop while I chase someone with OoO (Or alternatively avoid the object and have my current position constantly broadcast to the entire team) which results in 2 kills because someone went down with a gate open and people wouldn't leave is IMMEASURABLY less fun that a game against a regular team that otherwise results in a 2k.
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okay then you get 4 friends that are terrible at the game that are penalized because they're friends, then they stop playing again. not a solution at all. I don't know why people assume swf suddenly = massive amounts of skill.
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Thats a load of bs its either a lie from devs to keep everyone quiet or its incorrect
swf red ranks on ps4 are a nightmare and i refuse to ever Q up against it, it turns game from fun to the most stressful bs ever. At the end of the day swf is not worth wasting your time because the little bp u get is definitely not worth playing against sweaty, trolling ,body blocking, absolute egotistic people i ever seen.
And with killer list become more useless there is little killers left to handle swf (nurse) i used for swf only time i q because i knew i could handle them with her but since (basekit nerd still ignore by devs) shes worse the other killers no matter what anyone says nurse is trash. Because shes unfun unplayable. Imo and about 90% of community.
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Swf stands for survive with friends
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Ok
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When do killers get their solo queue since you guys are looking to buff solo experiences?
All i see here is survivor based feedback.
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You completely missed the point of the thread because as usual, you only think of galance and design in the perspective of survivors. What a joke.
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SWF isn’t OP, I actually find it easier to kill them as they are always near the survivor being hooked
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Party chat should be disabled, and you should only be able to hear each other with in a certain amount of meters including killer, like scda was. Way more fun with tons of smack talk to killer and survivors. And would stop salty camping killers.
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Ah yes play a scummy way that causes an unenjoyable experience for survivors just because you have the feeling and aren't even sure if they chose to queue with their friends. Honestly, camping then getting a free kill and rehooking... How can you find that fun enough to drag a whole game out with that method?
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There's alot of things that I think we all agree, comes with alot of problems if they did deal with swf.
Number one would be, what if you are a solo surivior? How would they stand an chance against a killer?
Number 2 would be, how is it fair to punish those who wants to play an normal game with their friends?
Number 3 would be, what actions would be taking place with killers that have an short chase time?
Number 4 would be, how is it fair to have a killer end the game way faster than a surivior doing gens?
Thats just the obvious ones that I have list. Then again, I think at this point of the game, they expect killers to slug if they want to win games (example oni).
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Gotta agree with this.
I played this game solo for months and only recently started playing with friends. Most games, we only get 2-3 gens done. Just because we're SWF doesn't mean we're good (or toxic), and many times we've given killers more kills because we try to make an unwise save to help a friend. I've played a fair amount of killer games against good SWF or at least much better than I am as killer and it's not always fun, but there's nothing I can do about it so I'm not going to get worked up about it.
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We should team up with another killer against SWF players. That would be fair and more balanced imo
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But what about for the solo killer experience against SWF?
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A. It works.
B. It's easily countered.
C. It's legit.
D. A legitimate strategy isn't scummy.
E. I don't prefer to camp, but whatever works.
F. Your fun is not my problem.
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A) Yep it works alright
B) Camping isn't easily countered, especially for the guy on hook unless you come into the game with specific loadouts prepared
C) It's not that legit tho is it. You hid and waited for people to come and die rather than putting any work into killing or chases.
D) You probably consider facecamping legitimate and don't think thats scummy.
E) Sure you don't
F) nope I never said it was your problem I just can't fathom how you can get any yourself
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Well it should be pretty obvious by now anecdote evidence does not mean anything.
And yes SWF does change the game significantly. If you're just couching it up with friends that is still a better position than being a solo survivor. Now add in people who are good at the game (i.e., abusing loops/mechanics) and can finish a generator in the fastest time possible x4 and suddenly the game is completely different.
Some killers (not players) can handle a SWF group that is being toxic/sweaty. Some just don't have the tools in their base kit and even addons to tackle and actually win against a SWF unless the survivors are making a large amount of mistakes.
So to reiterate; Just because you have faced SWF before and killed them doesn't mean they aren't a problem and it shouldn't be addressed. If Nurse is an addressable problem and she was only good on 1 platform and in 1 rank why can't we fix an issue that affects all players on all platforms at all ranks?
And I have to say it, it is beyond stupid to post a SINGLE match you have had and put it up on display like it's some sort of divine truth. It's one single game. They might've been potatoes, they might've been giving it to you, there are so many possibilities and you want to chuck it all up to your skill and nothing else. Riiiiiiiiight.
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What if Matt Walker keeps designing huge maps with infinites and nobody can stop him? I'd assume at some point during the last 3 years the devs have told him what the core problems are, but he doesnt care. He stubbornly keeps making big maps with infinites. Devs, someone tell him to stop. He's piling up crap that you have to fix later. Stop him
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I'm not even sure what to say to all this. "...it is beyond stupid to post a SINGLE match you have had and put it up on display like it's some sort of divine truth." What single match did I try to say was divine truth? I'd say 99% of my SWF games make it easier on killers, even with us being able to communicate. I'm a red-purple rank survivor and my friends are 16-18. Our games match us with red and purple rank killers. If we're playing for a few hours a night three days a week as a SWF, that certainly isn't a single match that's divine truth. My games have far more escapes as a solo survivor than I do with SWF and I can't be the only one. We can play for hours as a SWF and not power the gates once. When I play solo, we can get several games in a row where the killer gets zero kills. So what do you want the devs to do? Even more BP than BBQ gives you? Or do you just want it removed from the game? I imagine killer queues will be atrocious when survivors stop playing.
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You know how many hundreds of times this same question has been asked and answered?
The answer is "No, we will not stop people from playing with their friends or give them a debuff for it, but we will change game mechanics and perks to make it so solo play is just as strong as SWF, then we will buff killers to be balanced around that level of play." And they have been doing this incrementally. Update by update, it becomes a little more balanced toward SWF.
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Unless they want to lose a very significant portion of their player base they are not going to do anything that hurts SWF. Discouraging players from being able to play with their friends is a fast way to kill the game.
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just give all survivors that are in a swf broken status effect all game. ez fix.
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Then I'd grow bored of the game much quicker than if they didn't make decent maps, and go to a different game.
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You and your statistics have definitely given me a new perspective, Almo. And you're right; SWF groups are extremely altruistic, and now that I know that, I've immediately started performing a lot better against them. Their insistence on getting everyone out alive makes them predictable, and gives them an easy weakness to exploit. Patrol the hook aggressively, and you get free hits galore.
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This, the main reason SWF will never be balanced is because the game never was built with it in mind, it was a mode that was added in later in development. Personally I would fix it by having 2 modes, ranked and quick match. Have 3-4 man SWF on quick match, but ranked can only have 2 max.
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Yeah it's not just the escape metric, it's just... As a Killer you are alone against a team of 4 who could all be on comms and talking to each other, relaying info and all. It makes it rather hard to feel like that you are having any impact on the match when that kinda thing happens.
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Because you want an easy match. Move on
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And the people who do play SWF didn't pay??? Where's the logic.
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What about making the killer experience better though? Everything you seem to mention is focused on improving the survivor experience.
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My opinion:
Let killer choose if they want to play against swf's(only 4man), with an additional bonus(more bp maybe)
But i think this will ruin SWF completly.
also give Soloq-Players kindred as a passive/bonus.
Post edited by Matekoss on0 -
Literally pointless if these plans are not baseline.
Having to equip a perk to get information swf has for free is not equal to or strengthening solo survivors.
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I agree, which is why I'm hoping that's not the direction they're taking. They have made UI improvements over the last few months which would suggest that they are trying to improve the solo experience at baseline level, though.
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I play both sides and I genuinely enjoy playing killer but dear lord, there is a reason I play survivor a little more and that is the fact that swf make killer stressful af AND survivor is weirdly the role you play to unwind and NOT be stressed. Like the only time you’re mildly stressed as survivor is when killers play dirty or OTHER survivors ruin the experience (which might lead the former to take it out on you in a vicious cycle.)
Killer should be the role you play when you don’t want to be stressed and survivor the challenge and reward for making it out alive.
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I'm going to assume the Survival-Rate of Red Rank SWF is significantly higher than the overall average for the player-base. Would it be possible to see that statistic?
Other useful statistics that would help measure the influence a SWF group has are:
- Frequency of aura-reading perks (Spine Chill, Alert, etc) - I'm expecting SWF to equip less aura-reading perks than Solo Players due to the communication advantage
- Generator Repair Rate whilst a Survivor is being chased - Again due to the communication advantage, SWF groups should have a higher rate than Solo Players
- Killer Power Success Rate - Killers such as The Pig, The Shape, The Trapper should have a lower success rate at triggering their powers than The Nurse, The Hillbilly, The Cannibal. This is due to SWF communication nullifying stealth and traps mechanics
- Hex Perk Removal Rate - Again due to the communication advantage, SWF groups should have a higher rate than Solo Players
These are a few useful statistics but should hopefully indicate how influential an SWF group is and why they can be rather annoying to play against as Killer (especially in Red Rank).
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