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Mind breaker rework idea
While performing any action (Repairing, healing, sabotaging, cleansing totems, opening chests, and opening exit gates) survivors are affected by the oblivious status effect. This effect persists for 6/8/10 seconds after the action is ended. I think this perk would have value and it would have the added benefit of making survivors truly in danger when exposing themselves through these actions.
Comments
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Exhaustion is way more useful then Obliviousness IMO.
Obliviousness is good against solos but not so great against those with any form of communication or if they're working on something with good line of sight (which as survivors and with the Third Person view, its quite easy to see most killers coming).
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The exhaustion on mindbreaker feels kind worthless to me imo especially with blood echoes coming out. 45 seconds plus hemorrhage beats 3 seconds of exhaustion for half a gen. I also just think this version would allow all killers to have fun stealth play style instead of a weak band aid on exhaustion.
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This makes stealth characters redundant.
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I’m fine with it on everything but gens. That’s just like too powerful and stealth killers have no point then
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It's current Exhaustion effect is near worthless.
I like your idea and it's similar to the one I had. Mine was just gens but with the percentage restrictions that it has now. Basically just replace the the Exhaustion for Oblivious. The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it.
Oblivious is vastly more useful than Exhaustion.
Btw you mentioned Blood Echoes because of the exhaustion effect and that perk is pretty trash as well. Hemorrhage is near worthless and not even worth mentioning, so it's basically a 45 second Exhaustion for being injured during a hook...that's awful and not even close to being worth running. If they also changed that Exhaustion for Oblivious now that would be decent.
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Mindbreaker is a good perk to have -in addition- with other exhaustion perks... If it didn't only apply for 50% of Gen progress, and if the default exhaustion was a few seconds longer. It would make maps with Balanced Landing loops (Haddonfield) a lot more difficult.
If the exhaustion by default was more like 4/5/6 and it extended Exhaustion already on survivors for 90/95/100% of Gen progress, it would be a lot stronger and would synergize well with Blood Echoes and other perks/addons that cause exhaustion.
It would work as a slowdown perk, too, as it would force escaped survivors to risk getting downed during chase (as you cannot regain from exhaustion while running) or to wait before working on gens.
A max of 3 seconds is a minor inconvenience. 4 seconds is a little threatening. 5 seconds is very threatening. 6 seconds? Worthy of the Purple slot.
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I don’t think it would make stealth killers pointless though. You can still read the killers aura and if you get ambushed by them once you’ll have better early warning than say a wraith or ghost face
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I can see it applying at any rate on gens to be a bit much, perhaps it could work in the same way mindbreaker does now at up to 50% on gens. On other actions I would say it should remain constant though, otherwise it would be worthless.
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It sounds good on paper, but I can see a few issues with it.
Like TAG said, it'd basically make stealth killers redundant, but would also end up being a very frustrating perk for survivors in a couple scenarios.
The heartbeat is basically there to warn survivors working on gens/healing/etc, to start thinking of their next move. Are you gonna hide? Make a run for it? Removing this for 80 seconds is way too strong on certain maps.
Imagine you're working on that one gen in an isolated room on Hawkins, suddenly there's a Billy/LF behind you and you had no idea. Works for those generators in Haddonfield/Badham too in that one isolated room.
Imagine working on a generator in a jungle gym or indoor map while injured, you're very limited to what you're able to see, you don't know the killer is around but they can hear you moaning in pain and the sounds of you working on that gen. Heck, could even be a tier 3 Michael with zero heartbeat.
I think your change sounds interesting, but will end up causing a lot of frustrations for survivor/being really broken in certain situations. Not gonna have a huge impact on gens that are placed in the open, but really broken on indoor maps/gens located in crowded areas/in jungle gyms.
That's just the issues I see with gens, this perk alongside Nurse's Calling would also be a very frustrating combo for survivors on indoor maps. There would definitely be situations where they started healing outside your heartbeat but you might get in the range for it so you can see their aura, they would have no idea you're coming.
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Obliviousness when repairing, even as a Demo main that sounds insane.
*Just walks up and grabs people on gens, with them unable to counter play it whatsoever other than having constant 360 visual awareness and xray vision in most cases*
Post edited by [Deleted User] on0 -
I mean asking them to have their eyes open seems like the easiest possible counter play they could ever be asked to do. They already do it when playing against Ghostface and Demi is way louder.
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The counters to this would be awareness and the fact that the killer still has red stain while the survivor is oblivious. Also running detection perks like spine chill or object would completely negate the effect.
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Actually now that I think about it this perk would also be a massive unintentional buff to object considering oblivious allows you to see the killer at any distance( within the 72 meter range of course).
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You can use perks on other killers though is the problem- and "eyes open" won't help them.
A lot of gens are in areas with walls, you could just walk right around and grab them before they can get off the gen in the like half a second reaction time they have.
You can already do that when you are undetectable for various reasons, I can't imagine just being able to do that all the time. If you can't see the blatant problem with that I don't know what to tell you, do you play survivor much?
I barely play survivor and even I realize how insane that would be.
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The current exhaustion effect is fine as it prevents survivors from immediately sprint bursting away from a gen when the killer comes, and stops their current exhaustion meters from ticking down while repairing and adds 3 seconds to them. What makes the perk trash tier is the "Under 50%" requirement. If it simply applied its exhaustion effects on every gen repair no matter how progressed they are, this puts survivors in the position of having to walk away from the gen for 3 seconds before being able to use their exhaustion perks, and/or wait until their current exhaustion meters are ticked down enough to allow a speedy escape via their perks before working on a gen.
To be honest, the current effect makes pig ambushes against survivors on gens much more successful since they can't use their escape perks to get away. Same goes for when wraith is coming out of cloak near them, or when Billy chainsaw sprints over to their gen, but because of that stupid "under 50%" requirement, the perk is rendered too situational to be useful since it only takes 41 seconds for a lone survivor without a toolbox to get a gen over 50% and kill the perks effectiveness.
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If it was seriously that detrimental Ghostface would be much more of an issue than he is. That just makes some maps more dangerous than others, not unmanageable. I still don't get pulled off gens with an Undetectable status killer like Ghostface because I have eyes and use them. I have played survivor at rank 1 on every reset since the games release. Most survivors mistake "OP" or "too strong" for them being bad.
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Blood Echo has potential- imagine using this on a Plague or Legion. Now combo it with some other perks (Nurses or BBQ for auras, Bloodhound for tracking, etc.) and it can be lethal.
It may not be good on its own, but its great when combo'd correctly, and far from trash.
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Even combined with those other perks that doesn't make Blood Echo very much more lethal at all. Tracking is almost never an issue in this game, especially on Plague of all killers. What killer in their right mind would even look at Bloodhound...seriously, were not talking about a rank 20 game. Bloodhound is garbage. By the time you even get to them with BBQ or Nurses you've already got less than 30 seconds remaining in the best scenario. The only thing that's really effecting is Sprint Burst which is hardly ran anyway. By the time they get to a Dead Hard the Exhaustion is probably gone anyway. Not to mention what perk you are dropping for Blood Echoes. Like seriously what perk are you valuing as less than Blood Echoes in the current Plague options?
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because it almost never happens right now, if it happened pretty much every-time you WOULD get grabbed off gens, eyes won't help you because you won't have the reaction time if they approach on certain gen spots.
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You actually are dealing with Undetectable quite a lot currently with Ghostface being in the top few most played killers and it not being an issue at all.
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I suggested a buff to Mindbreaker a few months ago but it's now gone so I'll repost.
Mindbreaker: While repairing generators below 50% progression, survivors get exhausted for 10 seconds after they stop the repair action. If the survivor is already exhausted, then the exhaustion timer is paused. While repairing generators above 50% progression, survivors scream and reveal their current location for 6 seconds after they stop the repair action within your terror radius. Revealing survivors locations trigger once every 30 seconds.
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That and marking survivors is literally his entire ability and kit, which could now be mostly done with a perk that would also be doing tons of OTHER stuff on top of it, on top of all the other killers abilities using that perk. That's insane.
Sorry if you want to believe that it would be fair, all the power to you, but you are not going to convince me otherwise- as much as I love the idea of being able to get a guaranteed free hit or gen grab almost constantly at almost no cost.
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It includes gen progression limitations on the perk, it isn't at all times. Also, the entire perk is completely hard countered by other survivor perks as well if eyes aren't enough.
It's only a free hit or grab if you're playing at low ranks where no one even knows how to play the game yet. At rank 1 that is not the case. All power to you if you want to believe it would be too strong but that's not the case.
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The op suggested the oblivious works anytime the survivors perform any action so it would trigger everytime. Oblivious counters any aura reading perks and BT on the killer so I'm curious to know what those counters are.
Having played against GF a lot in red ranks and getting hit when he's in stealth says otherwise. You're seriously undermining the effect of oblivious because "everyone has a pair of eyes". Stealth killers aren't stupid enough to just run in the open and reveal their locations to everybody. They'll hide around corners, walls, bushes, rocks, anything that'll keep them hidden. It's a lot easier to do this when survivors are working on a gen in a shack, building, behind walls, and especially indoor maps.
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"The op suggested the oblivious works anytime the survivors perform any action so it would trigger everytime."
I was responding to someone who had commented on my similar suggestion that included a progression limitation, not OP's.
"Oblivious counters any aura reading perks and BT on the killer so I'm curious to know what those counters are."
I wasn't referring to aura reading perks at all. I was referring to things like Spine Chill and Premonition. BT also doesn't really have anything to do with what were talking about since we are referencing Oblivious on gens, not how strong Undetectable is on a killer.
"Having played against GF a lot in red ranks and getting hit when he's in stealth says otherwise."
We were referencing grabs more than hits and grabs are extremely rare. Also, unless the survivor is refusing to heal and just gen rushing an initial hit isn't really an issue.
"Stealth killers aren't stupid enough to just run in the open and reveal their locations to everybody. They'll hide around corners, walls, bushes, rocks, anything that'll keep them hidden."
That's true, but it's also true that using that technique costs a lot more time in a gen rush meta which is the reason you don't see it used much. Yeah they aren't gonna walk through the open field but they also aren't gonna go all the way around to come from behind you in a corner for most cases. This leaves them quite able to be seen and prevent a grab.
"It's a lot easier to do this when survivors are working on a gen in a shack, building, behind walls, and especially indoor maps."
Luckily shack is already one of the most safe spots on the maps to be and the amount of indoor maps is much lower than outdoor ones. A situational benefit.
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Glad someone here understands this.
If you play red ranks you should know how dangerous oblivious can be. Killers know how to use it, they don't give you the reaction time because they don't just let you see them to begin with.
If you think one perk should do literally everything, and think that's fair, honestly I don't know what to tell you other than you are very mistaken. Keeping in mind that is just one aspect of the proposed perk, look at everything else it would supposedly do too on top of it.
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No one ever said Oblivious wasn't dangerous.
"If you think one perk should do literally everything"
That isn't what is does, that's not what I think and that's not what I said.
You are drawing incorrect conclusions on misinterpretations.
"Keeping in mind that is just one aspect of the proposed perk, look at everything else it would supposedly do too on top of it."
That changed version we are referencing did not have anything else in addition to it.
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Earlier, you said, "The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it", so you still thought it was balanced. Not sure if he's exaggerating or not, but I agree that survivors aren't going to get gen grabbed left and right but it would occur from time to time since the killer using the perk would have no terror radius for almost the entire match so it's bound to happen within a few games if the killer knows what to do which would still be a problem.
Spine Chill doesn't tell you where the killer's coming from so it can still give the killer a free hit every now and then. As for Premonition, it's pretty garbage, and I wouldn't bother bringing it since it works when I already know where the killer is most of the time. I mentioned BT to reinforce my point on how broken this would be. Those two perks prevent getting grabbed but it won't always prevent the m1. Even then, the fact that you have to equip one of those perks to stand a chance is ridiculous. The advantages the killer would have with this 1 perk makes it beyond broken.
He was just mentioning one of the reasons as to why the perk would be overpowered. You still thought the op's suggestion was balanced so I stepped in. If you think this is all about gen grabs, then you missed @Echorion and my point.
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OoO hard counters oblivious..... see object vs freddy... so I'd rather have exhaustion on it..
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""The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it", so you still thought it was balanced."
No...saying an idea works and that people would run it is not the same thing as saying something is balanced.
Something working is not inherently good or bad, it just works. Saying someone would run a perk means it's at least a decent perk, it does not say HOW good, whether that be too good or barely good.
"the killer using the perk would have no terror radius for almost the entire match"
No, the survivor would only have Oblivious when on a gen at a specific percentage interval.
"Spine Chill doesn't tell you where the killer's coming from so it can still give the killer a free hit every now and then."
That doesn't stop it from working the majority of the time. It is a highly underrated perk.
I personally think it's much better than Premonition but they are both at the very least viable perks with Spine Chill not far from meta.
"I mentioned BT to reinforce my point on how broken this would be"
I think you are confusing Oblivious with Undetectable. We are talking about Oblivious as that is what would be affecting survivors with this perk. This would not bring BT into what we are talking about.
"Even then, the fact that you have to equip one of those perks to stand a chance is ridiculous."
You don't have to, it's just a hard counter if you did.
"You still thought the op's suggestion was balanced so I stepped in"
That isn't what was said at all. You misinterpreted what I was saying.
"If you think this is all about gen grabs, then you missed @Echorion and my point."
This is another misinterpretation. I never said it was all about gen grabs.
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A big part of the stealth Killer is the lack of a TR. There are other small things too, but giving Oblivious to anyone working on a gen takes away the big thing about stealth Killers. So I would say it makes stealth Killers pointless.
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Saying an idea works and that people would use it is implying that it's fine and doesn't need changing, or at least that's what we got from it, so you need to word it better since we didn't misunderstand what you said. Also, I still stand by my point that the idea won't work at all. Tinkerer is a watered down version of op's suggestion and nobodies using it so just buff that instead.
Once again, I was talking about op's suggestion. I didn't bother to talk about your idea of the perk since you didn't get into details on how you think it should work so don't blame me. @Echorion wasn't talking about your suggestion either, it was on op's. You're the one that replied to him first.
I didn't say it would stop working. My point is that Spine Chill doesn't completely counter the perk since you can still run in the killer's direction without knowing where they are and Premonition isn't useful half the time so it's garbage.
Being oblivious after performing any action would prevent BT from working since there's no terror radius.
With this perk enabling any killer to be stealthy at any given time, I'd say any counters to it are a must have. Those perks you mentioned aren't even hard counters since they're inconsistent and it only works on the user.
If I misinterpreted what you said(which I didn't), then you should've worded it better since that's what you implied so it's your fault, not mine.
You said, "We were referencing grabs more than hits and grabs are extremely rare", after I was talking about hits so which is it then?
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This would make every killer a stealth killer. Wouldn't make much sense playing Wraith when you can just go Hillbilly with a muffler. I agree that mindbreaker is fairly weak (one could say it counters Sprint Burst but not running in a chase for 3 seconds is not difficult and you'll just end up giving the survivor an activateable Sprint Burst).
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Just make it where you get exhausted no matter how much the generator is repaired and increase the Exhaustion timer after the repair action to 8/9/10 seconds. Vuala, you have an alright Perk.
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