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Need answer from dev. STOP IGNORING.
Comments
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Descrimination means acknowledging the difference between two things. It's not inherently a bad thing. So yes, they are discriminating between the opinions of the minority and the majority, because it makes sense to place more weight on the latter than the former.
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Yet the last time, we gave them time, they did nothing to fix the changes they made to Base Kit Nurse.
Legion is about to get the Nurse treatment where they will ignore post about him, and then post some stats saying his fine and such, or say they re still doing research. I'm sorry but the devs have already lost my trust since the disasterous legion rework, and this legion nerf, along with the nurse nerf makes me trust them even less.
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We don't. However, there are pages upon pages of suggestions for Legion.
I think you and I would agree that Legion is fundamentally flawed. Deep Wounds cannot be balanced for both sides.
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Legion is the most prevalent issue and the one people have likely spent the most money on.
I do have great sympathy for the Devs, I cannot imagine dealing with people, myself included, day in and day out.
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But what happens when a minority is ignored for too long? They leave. Then a new minority is formed, and once they are ignored, they leave too. It is possible to help a minority of players while keeping the majority in mind; the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Okay then leave a paid DLC killer the way they are cause the minority that do play legion and don't want them to be trash but not cheap either will stay ignored. Fine by me it's not like i payed money for them. I used shards, thankfully, kinda glad i figured out it'd be the worst chapter they ever released, I just wish I could get the time i spent grinding them back.
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We are talking strictly about a killer whose power is completely and utterly broken. There is no way for them to craft a power that checks all your little boxes without pissing someone off. You know that phrase "you can't please everyone"? It exists for a reason. THAT is the point.
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Both of you are forgetting a little detail in that the majority can't participate unless the minority shows up at the party. In the case of the nurse, there is a shortage in the upper ranks so discrimination is bad here. Voices have been silenced with no empathy.
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If you ignore or oppress the minority I consider that pretty bad personally. Just because you are a minority doesn't mean you don't deserve a say, rights, and such.
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No one is saying that minority voices aren't important. If the minority voices were being ignored, it wouldn't be a majority vote, it would be a unanimous one. All anyone is saying is that it makes sense for the developers to listen to the opinions of the majority over those of the minority when trying to gauge the general community response to a change.
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I'm sorry, but are you guys (DEV), can't tell the difference between adjusting, buff or nerf? Seriously?! All we can see as killers, if there is a viable killer, it got nerfed not long after some crying ppl in here.
Some ppl paid to play some killers. This legion nerfed, s/he already weak enough, and you guys not satisfied, you broke it again to 6 feet under. Why don't you just delete it instead?
And yes, you guys will ignore this again (like always), because i'm from killer side. Awesome. No wonder you guys have very bad reputation.
Good job
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May I point you to These threads?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/109666/dramatic-but-this-is-how-i-feel-now/p1
Cause that's some good feedback for how badly you guys gutted Legion, again. Having your favorite Killer gutted again isn't "engaging Game play" either. Yall made me quit. Just get rid of Deep Wound on Feral Frenzy and go from there! It would be so much easier to balance without nerfing the weakest Killer.... again.
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Exactly.
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Oh but they will wait out the "Knee-jerk" reactions for 2 years or till no one is saying anything anymore. They don't care. They will just wait till we collectively shut up.
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Honestly, I think the legion rework is great. Focusing on closing loops instead of wasting survivor time is a huge plus and a step in the right direction. Although, I totally understand your concern.
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But if the majority doesn't care about legion one way or the other, why not help the minority that paid to have a viable killer?
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Sorry. I didnt even notice I copy pasted that XD i'll leave.
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You keep missing the point chief. No one expects a perfect killer. But people expect that when they pay for a game and extra content, the least they should get in return is transparency. That's the issue here. The ridiculous nerf to legion is just icing on the cake.
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In the case of Legion changes, I don't know who's in the minority and who's in the majority. From what I've seen, it seems pretty split, but I intentionally haven't involved myself in that particular discussion because I don't feel that I'm well-informed enough to form an educated opinion, and I'm not going to start now.
My comment was specifically challenging the notion that the way the developers handle community feedback in general is in any way comparable to racial discrimination, nothing more than that.
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I see. The race argument was a large stretch, but the point about ignoring a minority opinion were spot on by the other poster.
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My bad. Didn't mean to copy paste that. Not sure how I did that. Point still stands though, the overall weight of it was a heavy nerf.
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You know how long i've been playing Legion (in case you don't it's over 200 hours). My Point is it doesn't even get you a worth while stall. Doesn't help you in chase. Doesn't help you with anything. The power itself is more of a punishment right now. Feral Frenzy isnt meant to get downs, you are right about that.... But it's meant to do SOMETHING and right now it doesn't.
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His power is still great for tracking survivors which is the most important thing here.
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Yes you could do that on certain maps for example on bloodharvest final right at the start, left to the saferoom that you leave. However you know how that was handled by experienced players?
People countdown, rush out, spamming right click and shooting at the spot, the chances of that happening vs experienced players were incredibly low, not to mention that even when you would land the hit with the smoker the constant spamming would free the survivor immediately and break off the tongue.
So yeah it was just a thing of experience and nothing else :)
However I just wanted to point out that there are lots of games out there which do not suffer the same problems as dbd.
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Thank you for listening.
Oh yeah, track the survivors that can easily loop you cause your power does nothing in a chase, even more so if they are injured already. Oh yay
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Just want to chime in here to say that as someone who game tested on a AAA title at one of the big three console makers, I doubt many people here actually understand the man hours and resources that go into making a game. Bug testing alone, even at the lowest level, is thousands per day, even with a small team, before you even add in administrative costs. And that's only one small department.
Furthermore, every company has varying skill sets and available resources. Not every painter is Van Gogh, but people should still be appreciated for the work and skill they put into their craft, even if they fall short. If I had to face the deluge of entitlement trash talk that happens to game developers about something I loved and worked hard at, I wouldn't be long for this world.
Please stop living your life through the game. Be respectful, critique, and if you are that unhappy, have the decency to move on. Or, if you're passionate, work towards becoming a game dev and being the change you want to see.
No one, and I mean NO ONE, has to sit and and take being ground into the dirt the way they are being here, or anywhere else in life for that matter.
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Probably just fed up trying to make a game that everyone always complaining about
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Just become a game Dev 4head.
If we don't say something, how will they ever learn? How will they know its wrong?
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Btw, omegaluldev said: "change addons, pins is a common request". Who requested a nerf on mend duration addons and make pin only work on second FF target? Your INSIDE feedbacker?
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As far as the basic attack change goes, it's the same as the Pig. It's to create consistency between powers so it's easier to understand what a basic attack is and what works with it. Previously, it was a bit of a mess. Something like Sloppy Butcher would work, but NOED would not. Both activated on basic attacks, but both were treated differently with Feral Frenzy. Not only is this less confusing for someone new to the game, but it also makes it much easier for us to balance.
You use Pig as an example, but NOED on her doesn't work on her as expected either. If she ambushes a Survivor whilst NOED is active, NOED will reveal itself to the Survivor but won't put them in the dying state. That feels rather inconsistent in itself and deserves to be changed.
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People play the game to enjoy themselves. They paid to play the game. If something they find fun is no longer fun (i.e playing as Legion) they have every right as a consumer to complain.
I get it's frustrating for the devs to listen to the complaints, but when there's something this wrong at this magnitude of a scale in the forums then at the very least they should reconsider their decisions even before the Live Version is released (The PTB is there for a reason, for the community to give feedback on it and what they think is or isn't going to work for the live version.)
The line is, many people are unhappy about the changes made to a game they love to play. So they will make complaints about it until the issue is resolved.
Are there some complaints that are unreasonable? Of course! But are all of them like that? Heck no! It just so happens this community is one of, if not, the worst gaming communities of all time. So you will most likely hear more negative stuff coming out rather than something positive.
Telling people to become a game dev just because they want something they like in a game they love to be changed for the better is not helpful or constructive. If anything it would make some people double down on their behaviour to act like crud against the developers.
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Please read my response carefully. I have no problem with critique. But you can be respectful about it. Debasing people while expressing said critique is immature and harassing.
To other call outs, I spent a ton of hours on Legion since day 1. I am saddened by how the Legion was changed. I have cosplayed Susie because I love her character. But I can express my disappointment in fair terms. State what I don't like, suggest improvements, and then hope for the best.
But at the end of they day, you may be disapppointed. Raging that the solution is so simple or that you are not being heard are short sighted remarks that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the complexities of making a game.
You spent 8 dollars, a tiny drop in the bucket in the scheme of life, for entertainment. I have spent that on 45 minutes of DDR in the arcade and was happy. That people expect an indefinite amount of enjoyment, tailored to their demands for such a paltry sum is ridoculous.
Your life does not start and end with Dead By Daylight. But the devs lives greatly do. They are doing what they can with the talent and resources they have. If you feel they have a track record of disappointing you, you have no one to blame but yourself for being a glutton for punishment.
And yes, this is a horridly long rant, but I am so tired of the gaming community tearing down creators at every turn. Please be decent human beings. The world is in short supply these days.
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I don't think it takes a lot too figure out "hey, if Legion's Frenzy could insta down with NOED, it would be incredibly broken and would destroy the game." Plus I have never seen a post saying this. People understood why NOED or Rancor didn't work with Frenzy but Sloppy did, so changing it for "consistency" when Wraith's stealth dash or Hag's teleport attack still count as an M1. Please revert the changes too Legion so he can be somewhat useful. ATM he's completely useless.
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Started to play Mayers. First game 4k (with 5 gen left) at purple rank. TY devs.
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Public Forum man. People are allowed to respond how they want. I agree with you that we should be somewhat respectful, but if i'm upset cause my favorite Killer was gutted and strung up in town square as a warning to the others, I'm gonna call them on ther Bullshit no matter how "Little" money i've put into the game. I've put in more than enough hours of my life to allow me to get upset and say what I think is horribly wrong.
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People haven't spent only "8 dollars" on the game. You forgot to factor in the DLCs and cosmetics people have bought for their favourite survivors and killers (which of course they will do if they have the money). Just saying the game is only 8 dollars is a stretch. Most people have paid for much more than just 8 dollars.
And I am not saying it's easy for the devs either, I completely understand their position in all this. It's hard to satisfy a fanbase this ravenous and toxic. I can understand them not wanting to respond to a fanbase that seems ready to explode. I can understand that. But I also know that if a consumerbase is this heated up the best way is to reassure them about their commitment to the product.
Some of these people have played DBD for years, they want to see it grow. They want to continue to have fun with it. They want the game to be as balanced as it can be, but they also want to see that balance to be fun. It's understandable too why they would be this angry, this agitated and this ready to explode against the developers if it feels like they aren't taking their feedback into consideration. I'm not saying that is right to be mad at the developers for the changes they made to their game. But I am also saying that it's not completely offbase that these complaints come from people just whining.
Some of these people are dedicated to seeing positive change happen for the game. And it can feel very frustrating when that change never happens and it only seems to get worse.
I totally get where you are coming from, but I also get where the community is coming from. It feels like no one is listening and that is understandably very frustrating.
That's all I have to say to be honest, if you would like to discuss this further I may end up repeating myself.
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So the next time you eat a meal you don't like, make sure you don't criticize the cook. Doesn't matter that you paid for it, become a chef yourself first before you dare criticize them. See how dumb that sounds? Because its dumb to have this mindset.
I'm really getting sick of people acting like the entire gaming community is a ravenous band of toxic murderers who bully the poor devs, when all people want is consistency and transparent communication about a product they paid for. That's it.
Nobody is acting like its "their life" but creators have an obligation to be transparent with their consumers. Which is something I can relate to. If I do a commissioned art piece for someone and they criticize it, how dumb would it be for me to tell them to "become an artist" before they're allowed to have an opinion? During my day job as a paramedic, is nobody allowed to criticize my work unless they're paramedics themselves? Do you have to be a director or a film student before you are allowed to criticize movies ? The list goes on.
You can't gatekeep criticism and feedback. Unless the feedback is disrespectful, they should at least acknowledge it.
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You're right, that does sound dumb. Luckily, that's not what they were trying to say.
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You have to admit they could've worded it better.
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Survivors usually have way more broken stuff than killers. No killer perk matches the pure strength of DS or Adrenaline.
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So people should not be upset when they are ignored? Part of the reasons forums exist and PTB are done is for feedback. When that feedback is ignored it stings. I'm also glad you can scoff at 8 dollars and spend it on DDR.
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Legion's feral frenzy attack never worked with exposed effects, so why bother mentioning a mechanic that never worked for him in the first place. The loss of basic attacks to his power negatively impacts Legions power as legion is expected to use his power to land first hits on survivors. The pin status effects add-on are still underwhelming as their duration is too short to make an impact in a match.
Legion feels very unsatisfying to play as an M1 killer because his power does not amount to any additional rewards after everyone is injured. The sprint burst when a survivor is hit in combination with a very high stun time cripples his ability to punish people who are out of position. Normal TR makes him have no surprise factor when a survivor is near a loop and as such, he has trouble capitalizing on injured survivors as he turns into M1 killer with no power when survivors do not heal. Legion feel like a killer who was suppose to punish survivors who co-op generators and stick in close vicinity of each other but he simply lacks meaning threat level in his power to achieve that goal. Legion feels pretty miserable to play and I personally think he could use redesign but I don't really know what that would look like.
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What if I play both sides?
DOUBLE AGENT!
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gasp You’re a double agent!
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Secret agent trying to steal both sides secrets for a profit!
My cover is blown though... time to RUN!
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You’re leaving scratch marks.
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How about
they take legion
and remove them from the game
issues fixed
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Me: Why do I hear boss music?
GrootDude: Chase music plays...
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Shall we start chase while I miss every hatchet toss?
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