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Have you noticed survivors gen rushing more?
Survivors not healing under hooks, doing gens while injured, actually making safe saves. Its like overnight since the patch every survivor I have faced was like. OH YEAH this is how we win, and this is how we play good and every game has been impossible without playing super sweaty or using a high tier killer like spirit.
And before you make that comment "GeN rUsHiNg IsNt A tHiNg" It is, and basically it just means survivors are treating just like their main objective. What is surprising for most survivor mains to realize is not every game do survivors treat gets and their main objective, especially with the archives, they either have their own mission or before the archives they just played to mess around with the killer or just to get chased by the killer. Countless games I can count survivors ignored gens and that is the reason why killers are actually good.
When survivors actually treat the game as step 1 do gens, step 2 escape. Not only does that make all but 4 killers viable without some insane add ons and/or a mori it makes the game un fun for both side.
Killer side: You got gen rushed, maybe killed 1 person at the end because they were abandoned or you had to camp them out. Yay, you did like 3 chases the whole game.
Survivors side: You either were the survivor who got abandoned/camped or you held M1 and left. Yay... fun...
This is why DbD is fundamentally broken and survivor sided if survivors actually treat the game the way its "meant to be played".
If you are a killer main in this struggling time, I suggest if you want to play and actually win, use spirit or billy with some ok to good add ons. If you want to play any other killer, bring a mori and sweat your balls off.
If you are a survivor main, ask yourself if you are actually having fun in your games, whether if holding m1 and leaving is really good gameplay, if you don't think it is fun, come join the killers in complaining about the game to maybe 1 day have BHVR actually make gens fun and make the gameplay compelling, if you don't want to do that, start messing around. Find the killer and loop with them, play around with the other survivors, do some archive stuff, just do literally anything other than find gen, hold m1, finish gen, repeat till gens are all done, then leave. Its boring for both sides when survivors play like this (Which proves that survivors are the real power role of the game)
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, I look forward to reading all the wonderful respectful non bias comments.
Comments
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Okay...killer here.
Why does everyone complain about survivors doing gens? "Gen Rushing" is an idiotic term, just like "Tunneling" and so on. That's literally their main objective...that's their ONLY main objective, aside from the exits gates. If you can't grasp the basics, allow to explain. In Dead By Daylight, all matches come down to this:
Each survivor tags in and out with the killer while other survivors do gens.
That's the most basic concept. If you're a good killer, no one can get to the exit gates before you kill everyone. And that, is a personal issue, NOT a DBD issue.
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It's more like,
Step 1 do gens
Step 2 mess with the killer for boldness
Step 3 escape
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Not really, no.
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I gen rush pretty well when I play survivor, but when I play killer gens *usually* go normally. It sucks when you 3 gens pop at once, though. Survivors are the power role when they can sit on gens, but luckily most survivors dick around too much.
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Slugging and camping is boring for survivors. I never hear killers complain about that. The excitement in a match is dependent on the killer. Not the survivors. The survivors can't make the killer take a chase. They can't make the killer apply pressure. Whether the match is an exciting back and forth, or a steamroll is largely down to the killer.
As for gens. They can't balance a game like this around the red ranks. I know red rank killers think everything should revolve around them. But it can't. There is far too big a gap in skill levels to do that. But I'll bite. What do you propose the devs do to relieve some of the pressure on killers?
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This isn't new. It's been this ways for years unfortunately.
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Gen rushing has always been a thing. So has kill rushing.
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"Killer here" I doubt that and I doubt you even read the post. I addressed that. Now tell me killer main, how long do you games last? How long do you think games should last? Lets say if you were so efficient at killing you could beat how survivors rushing gens or should I say "doing their main objective"
3 survivors on gens 1 getting chased.
3 survivors can get those gens done in 80 seconds. So unless you want 60% of the survivors objective done by the time you did 8% of yours, you have to down the survivor in less than 80 seconds. Lets say you play a decent killer billy. Now this survivor you are chasing knows those mind games and can loop efficiently causing you to need to chase them fairly normally and break pallets and such. On a map such as blood lodge even if you were really good at looping there are enough pallets on the map to have that survivor be chased for well over 80 seconds. Yes all the pallets would be gone, but they are playing to escape.
So lets go with you down them in 80 seconds 2 gens left 1 survivor on the hook. You have 2 options go for another survivor, or camp the current one. If you go after another with good old BBQ 1 survivor goes for the save and they decide not to heal since they want to gen ru- I mean "do their main objective" So they get on a near by gen. 1 survivor is now being chased, last one has been working on a gen this entire time about 20 seconds.
The person you chase has less stuff to work with but gets you to blood lust 1 each hit, a good survivor won't get into the position to be chainsawed. That chase takes about 30 seconds to get each blood lust and maybe 20 seconds to catch back up after the hit. You go to hook them. The last gen just popped. 80 seconds for 3 gens. 20 seconds for the save. 60 seconds for that last gen to pop since 2 survivors on a gen takes 44 seconds. That is a grand total of 2 min and 40 seconds for every gen to go off.
Now you have the same situation, do you go after another survivor or camp the current one. Me having 900 hours in the game, I think camping would not be a terrible idea since if you leave they just get saved and leave. But if you go after another survivor with the help of BBQ you risk getting no kills if an exit gate gets opened.
Option 1, go after another survivor, you find another survivor near an opening exit gate with their friend that they unhooked, it took a while to get over to that side of the map so the gate is half way opened. Logically you start looking for the injured one and lets say you actually found them. At this point there might be a pallet around there might not be. But if you chase for even 10 seconds that gate is opening because of the other survivor who hid from you since you chased the injured one. You chase and despite the odds you down the injured survivor and hook them. The other 2 survivors are waiting at the other exit t bagging, the last survivor you don't know but you know the exit you are at is 99%. So you start looking for that survivor, but gasp they went around and unhooked the survivor. So you see this foolish move down the hooked survivor, but wait borrowed time. They start running for the gate so you chase, they open it, but the healthy survivor didn't body block correctly and you hit the borrowed time survivor. Quickly you pick them up to stop them from leaving.
But... DS you get stabbed, they T bag and all 4 survivors leave.
This story is not fake, I have seen this exact scenario play out over 100 times over streams, videos, and in my own experience. Given the only fabrication of this is, the map had to be specific since Blood lodge has so many pallets it is very easy to loop every killer on except spirit, nurse, and huntress. Anyone killer who cares about pallets will have a rough time with that map. The other thing I didn't address is items. A good tool box just makes this story go by even quicker and can end the game in sub 2 min and 30 seconds.
However, I also ignored ruin. Ruin could make this game go on for about another minute if not found, or extend it 20 seconds because it spawned next to a gen.
My whole point is that unless if you have faced that 1 team the infamous "De pip squad" you will never know how much power survivors hold in their hands.
Now don't take this as survivors OP plz nerf. I am saying that the only reason that this game has killers playing it is because survivors waste this potential in almost every game. Solo survivor is perhaps the weakest role out of any side. Solo survivor is frustrating as you have a killer who can tunnel, camp, or smurf into dumpster you and your team. But you also have your teammates who can be that rank 21 who will hide and crouch after catching a glimpse of the killer across the map, and they do nothing the whole game no saves, no gens, all they do is hide.
The balance of DbD comes from survivors playing badly. That is the point, and after this update, a lot stopped playing badly because of the things they heard about Oni being this overpowered monster. This makes every killer game since the update that I have played a stressful, unfun, and overall terrible time.
That is the point. Also gen rushing is another term for "doing the main objective". If you read the post I addressed that.
I quote: And before you make that comment "GeN rUsHiNg IsNt A tHiNg" It is, and basically it just means survivors are treating just like their main objective.
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I agree, both ruin games. Both are unfun.
Unless as a killer you enjoy slugging 4 survivors who couldn't even find ruin to have them either bleed out or die after trying to kobe of the hook, it ain't fun.
But likewise, unless a survivor enjoys sitting at 3 gens holding M1 for 3 min then opening an exit and leaving, it also ain't fun.
Both sides have this issue, but the survivor is meant to feel powerless against the killer *not that powerless* but they are supposed to fear the killer because... they are a killer. Solo survivor is by far the most powerless role in the game. But SWF discord de pip squad, is the most powerful role in the game. And nothing will put you off of playing killer more than being the *"power role"* and feeling powerless.
Its why killers always complain about gen speeds. Aside from the gimic ruin and the bandaid of pop goes, they are powerless in how hard survivors slam those gens.
This really comes through when the survivors actually start playing to escape is all.
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"why are you doing your objective? You're supposed to let me hook you"
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As a survivor main I wish I was being teamed up with the survivors you are seeing. I keep getting teamed up with survivors that lack intelligence and common sense.
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if I'm using adreanline then I just try to rush out the last 2 gens
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3 gens may pop in a small amount of time if you have trouble with pressure but once those 3 gens pop the game slows down tremendously for those last 2. Unless again, you are having trouble pressuring. Most of the game is inbetween those 3 gens popped and the exit gates opening so 3 gens popping really fast doesn't make a whole lot of difference because you only have 2 on gens when you get your first hook, if they're a coordinated SWF. If not, likely no one is on gens because they want altruism points. It becomes significantly easier after your first hook.
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I'm trying to get the unhook 1 survivor during egc challenge and I either end up being the gen jockey, or I get found and nobody does anything. Yesterday, I ran an Oni for more than 2 mins and a whopping total 1 gen was completed by the other 3 survivors in that time frame (no Ruin either).
If you can give me the steam handles of these genrushers you run into in your games, I would appreciate it, no sarcasm.
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At the rank 3-5 survivor rank level, yeah that's probably the case, but not at rank 1-2 level. there is massive difference between rank 1-2 and rank 3 to 5. It's like difference between grand master and Diamond/Platinum in other video games. Generators fly in about 4-5 minutes with map presence. If you fail to apply map presence, it can sometimes end in around 3 minutes. The rank 1 survivor is extremely optimized. When your rank 1 killer, you don't even aim for getting kills against these teams, you just aim to black pip. The changes to M1 killers actually quite laughable as if it is total disconnect. 80% of the killers are nowhere near equip to face that caliber of survivor. The term gen rushing is somewhat seen as negative, but it should not be. It should be more of term to say that survivor is playing properly.and is actively trying to win. It's just that it becomes extremely stressful to play killer when the players are very skilled at the game.
Just to give anecdote example, I had a game of Oni where the survivors all played super safe for 2/3 of the game by drooping every safe pallet and then when one of the survivors messed up on very end, I got my power, but the entire team decided to hide perfectly and I could not find anyone before my power ran out. It's like survivor dream to face a killer who is extremely loud with directional sound that you can loop into oblivion with no power. Playing survivor against Oni is fun, playing the killer is just headache. It's like PTB and live version of the game are completely different.
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Killers have a counter to gen rushing playing aggresive as ######### i do it as they complete more gens and can normally get them all dead by the last gen. If not then i just do what i can to get kills its anyone i can get at that point.
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Gen rushing isn't an idiotic term. By your logic it's ok for a killer too facecamp the entire game because killing someone is their objective. Without skillchecks, perks, or items a gen takes 80 seconds, so if you are chasing 1 survivor for 30 seconds - 1 minute, that means at most 3 gens are near done. Then you add toolboxes, Brand New Part, and Prove Thyself and the gens are pretty much done in 5 mins.
Gen rushing is a massive problem, especially in red ranks. It's the reason I stopped playing during the halloween "event" because everyone just gen rushed too get the bloodpoints for doing the special gens, and games lasted 5 mins at least.
Either there needs too be more objectives for survivors too do, or gens need too take longer, but as it stands gen rushing is just boring, unfun, and a waste of time for all sides.
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Maybe they're done with those "don't play the game very well" tome challenges?
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You killers honestly complain about everything. Y’all aren’t gonna be satisfied till survivors are always injured, always exhausted, and always visible with no perks, no add-ons, and no offerings because it too much and it’s so HARD TO PLAY just because they are playing with they friends. (Go Cry Somewhere Else)
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How is it a waste of time when it’s literally what we was put into the game to do. How will we escape if gens don’t get done.... should we break all totems, open all chests, break all hooks, and drop all pallets before starting the first GEN?
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You survivors complain about everything. Y'all aren't going to be satisfied till killers have no perks, no abilities, no blood lust and everyone can get up from slugging on their own without a perk.
You just want the game to tell you when he's in a chase, who he's in a chase with and where. You won't be happy until you can infinite loop killers are tiny walls
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Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say too never do gens, what I'm saying is the game shouldn't take 5 mins too be done. It's unfun and a waste of time for all sides. Chill a little my dude, no need too start being sassy and rude.
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I think a lot of people are doing Rift challenges now...gameplay styles have become very unorthodox.
The basement glitch may also be a factor with some Survivors not wanting to risk falling victim to the white abyss.
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I just love how many crutch perks survivors get that there's literally no counter to lol.
It's always cool to do a bunch of work getting hits and downing people just to watch it go down the drain. Hooked everyone twice and got them all hit at last gen screw you Adrenaline, out mind gamed someone oh what a pitty they got dead hard, downed a person who went for an unsafe save and then got the person they saved too bad DSTRIKE.
Survivors should have ZERO self saving perks. They take no skill and there is no counter play to them. The only one that I think is SOMEWHAT okay is mettle of man at least now
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I'm focusing gens a lot more but mostly for the Tome challenges.
Challenges that require me escaping or doing something EGC related require me to finish gens quickly if I want a chance at completing them.
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Nope. At rank 6, just played 3 games in a row where I was able to mess around as GF with no ruin or add-ons, still 4k and they only got 3 gens done. Gen rushing just means you're not putting enough pressure.
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Yea I often get teamed with ones who seem to when they do things like pull me off in front of the killer and other similar frustrations, when at my rank it's far more likely that that person doesn't give two shits about weather or not you make it off the hook safely, as with most killers they go after the injured survivor who had no say in a lousy "teammate" making either a bad or selfish call, but that that "teammate" was more interested in TBD points of a save rather than weather or not you actually get to survive. Lol
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Okay, so let me get this straight... because something is the objective, it cannot be complained about? Brilliant statement. Objectives are not bound by the laws of balance and fun.
Personally I've seen an increase in the amount of people ignoring people on hooks and doing gens, but judging from the toolboxes I see and the survivor challenges, I'm going to assume they're trying for the annoying gen challenge.
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I knew it isn't just me
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I don't believe in the term "Genrushing" cause it's just survivors doing their objective. There's nothing else do if killers don't put on enough pressure.
Though, what I believe is the issue, is when 4 survivors spawn far away from each other. That means 4 survivors spawning seperately, 90% of the time next to a generator. That means 4 different generators are being worked on until the killer finds one of the survivors, then it's 3 survivors on 3 generators.
Would be nice if survivors always spawned all together or 2 and 2. That'd encourage both groups to go work together on the first generator they see, which means only 2 gens would be worked on. If a killer then get to one of the gens and scare them away, that'd mean only 1 gen would be worked on.
At least, that's my take on something that could help slow down gens.
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Because no one wants a 5 minute game.
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Just apply Pressure 4head.
Yeah, this has a good point. Even if it's buried in hate from Survivors that don't want to bother playing Killer and love to be mean with replies.
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I have noticed most of Thoughs things but no the healing under hooks.
To many Survivor are shown what go do through Videos on YouTube and different streams. I was watching a noob3 stream and he was Gen rushing so I guess that's where thag has come from I came across another video of someone trying go get Survivor's to heal under hooks and yeah I get your point.
This new way Survivor's have learned to try and escape has not made it fun for Killer games it's almost like every game you play it's 4 swf games where one distracts the killer the rest gets the gens done.
Honestly Survivor's might take this to far where it becomes really unfair for Survivor and super easy for the Killer. Survivor's might take this that far that the dev's will end up breaking the game.
Examples
- increasing the time to do gens
- decreasing the amount of gens that Spawn in One trial
- Survivor's will need toolboxes in order to do gens now
It may not go that far but you see where I'm coming from.
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BrO jUsT aDaPt To ThE pLaYsTyLe. Man I am a SpongeBob lookalike...
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Why would killers complain about slugging? That's one of the ways they apply pressure. I don't hear survivors complaining about looping, DS, or dead hard, right? Because those things benefit them. Nobody complains when they benefit from something.
And the excitement factor of the game is largely based on rank. Because if you're in the red ranks, and not playing a killer with map pressure and a chase power, you're going to have a bad time. Period. Optimal survivors control the game and there is no balance for that because the vast majority of survivors are potatoes. I'm so sick of this hackneyed discussion, because there is no way for everyone to be happy. They just keep pointing fingers at the opposing role.
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That was my point. Survivors aren't going to complain about things that benefit them. Just as killers won't complain about something that is to their benefit. Both sides go back and forth repeatedly about the same things. It gets exhausting. I'm basically a survivor main at this point. But I at least try to see both sides of everything.
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It took me from release day until around noon today to get the Oni adept, about 20 games or so. The gen rush was insane. It was practically two, almost three gens done by the time I got one hook every match, barring a few instances of bad survivors.
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Yeah for the past 6 months, even more, i've encountered some heavy afk on gens survivors, can't really blame them but it sucks when you ignore everything just to rush the game.
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No. Because either survivors are noobs or they always gen rush. You cant get "more" from always.
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Gen rush is a dumb term but yes gens are too quick, 2:18 is a typical game for survivors (mostly in SFW but seen it more by solo at the moment, probably tome affected) that's next to no time to find down and hook a decent survivor, let's not start on the good survivors as that's just DC change game come back (DBD CURSE IS REAL) I do win some games but that's met with toxic messages about how my perks are for noobs (even though they run the OP meta survivor build that means you get 8 seconds (the new perk is OP #########? And to slug is met with toxic and/or just means you won't win cause they will have so much time to get up and do gens) to hook or the infamous 2:18 builds) it leaves killers no choice but to use ruin, thanatophobia, dying light and overcharge/noed (screw anyone saying this is a crutch, playing survivor is a crutch and noed can be countered super easily)/surge just so gens are at least a bit longer and forces people to heal and waste time, giving a whopping 4 minutes (average on both receiving and giving ends) and each kill you manage and extra 10 seconds per remaining gen, wow, it at least allows the game to be playable for killers, people can say "pressure" and they clearly don't do alot of killer, other than doctor, that won't work, you can pressure whilst in a chase and if you mean only go to gens then killers can't get kills, it the doctor can do gen pressure, hill Billy on a few maps but if it depends on map then you can't say they can cause every damn time I use him I get every map but those few maps, literally the only capable killers (based on survivor and killer games) Freddy, doctor, spirit (as a killer I keep getting stupid survivors that can't counter her easy counter as a survivor she never hooked me) nurse (I still struggle to use her but seen her used well, but still 50/50 games as survivor Vs her) use to be legion as well but...nerfed, Oni, I'm still trying but he is useless without the add on to increase the blood drops
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Uh guys have you noticed killers kill rushing alot more recently? Why do they do this? Why do they do their main objective. It's impossible to survive if a killer kills you. Please nerf
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Survivors complain about as much as killers do, and they're much more toxic, which is why I quit. If how most survivors act makes me want to not play killer, I don't want to play survivor, either. Survivors have it really good in DBD, even without SWF.
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Typical killer complaining and whining about survivors "gen rushing". Meanwhile killers can slug, camp, use traps ect. Killers are more op. A gen is done fast when a whole team is on especially if they all have tool boxes. Which I find it unrealistic for that to be in every match. There isn't always great coordination and no not everyone plays in swf. I play solo all the time. And maybe 10% of the time I'll have maybe a 2nd person hop on a gen with me.
Survivors main and only objective is to survive. Be it as a team or alone. And to do that gens NEED to get done. Its not always easy when other survivors bring a killer near or when a killer keeps going back to the same gen. We get crows over our head if we stand for longer then 10 sec or so in one spot. Giving us away instantly. And it's not like the hatch is always there.
The game isn't souly to revolve around the killer. Its survive or be killed. Not bend to the cry baby killers will and die for his pleasure. With a mentality like that is what makes the game not fun. Because then they need the survivors to the group, killers get zero penalty. It's hard to even get a pip as a survivor. Hell you'd be lucky to get a safety pip. BTW you can only get "gen rushed" if you're tunneling the one person....soooo isn't that your own fault?
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I haven’t noticed it in my survivor games nor my spirit games.
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I've noticed the opposite. Someone gets downed and everyone stops what they're doing and hides out near the hook for a quick save. Kindred can try and stop this but so far it's silly how long they'll crawl around the bushes waiting for the killer to stop patrolling. Do a gen!
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