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that bias though
not giving a damn about the changes seeing i have stopped playing due to the game is horrid on ps4 at the moment, but the bias in the dev notes is damn near criminal in a game where 2 sides are involved, this is a huge slap in the face not because of the changes but because of the lack of acknowledgement of how imbalanced this game has been for quite some time now towards killers. I don't see this pr mess ending well for them.
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If they want to make the game fun for survivors by all means do it. But do not leave killers in the dust to suffer as they always have. What you give/take from one side must be done to the other side as well. So fine, change Ruin devs. But there better be a change to DS or Borrowed Time soon.
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It was newbie bully perk. You will need to get over it.
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That's what gets me. The way the post was written, you'd think the killers are bots, while survivors are human players, and that the changes were meant to make the ai easier to go against.
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I will agree that it can be frustrating seeing this perk so much when you're new to the game. But maybe the reason it was so common was because gens were such a problem. The only way killers will get over this change is if something is done to keep the perk around longer than it lasts on average, or if the gen speed issue is addressed.
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Unless those NEWBIES were against a Hag, the chances of them running into RUIN, unless they are SWF (and if that's the case TOUGH CRAP) were slim. And those newbies are not supposed to be able to power through tough skill checks, they were supposed to go find the TOTEM. Only experienced players could ignore the totem and crush the gens anyways.
Now any player can IGNORE the PERK and a HEX PERK at that. And cleanse it later when they happen upon it by accident, and since they got their easy start portion over, then can feel free to remove the perk before it becomes of use in the late game for the Killer.
It wasn't a newbie bully perk and if you played any time into Killer at Red Ranks you'd understand the issue more. I'll get over it , when you get educated about why 80% of Killers ran the perk.
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Why can't the devs just put in a detailed tutorial that actually explains killer powers along with their strengths and weaknesses? Why not put in a tutorial that explains the effects of certain perks and items as well for survivors? That would solve so many problems for newbie survivors instead of nerfing perks and killers to Kingdom Come.
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noo not ds or bt changes to brand new parts bnp should destroy toolbox after use like instas and med kits they need to nerf commodious and mechanics/engineer tool boxes and swivel if there is going to be a nerf to ruin.
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you are part of the problem reread the post my friend i said i dont give a ######### about the changes you brought it to that in this discussion, so in all fairness your post is no more than spam.
can cms remove any posts about the nerfs/changes seeing thats not what this discussion is about...
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I'm glad this discussion was made because I think that this is the heart of the issue. Devs care way too much about how survivors feel and not enough about killers. Every change they made and the reasoning behind it is 100% survivor-centered. They reworked doctor not because he was weak and unfun for killer leading to low pick rates and kill rates, but because "he wasn't fun for survivors." They didn't change ruin because they wanted slower gens to be more natural but because "it wasn't fun for survivors."
Behavior has always kind of had their hands full with so many chapters, console ports, dedicated servers, etc. So at some point I always hoped that they'd just slow down, play their own game, and realize just how much they've been neglecting and hurting killers. I don't know if they'll ever do this but I really hope they do eventually because this game is going down a slippery slope to dying with no killers.
I think the best way to respond is by doing basically what they want. If they want survivor to be easy and fun and killer to be the opposite, then just play exclusively survivor. Queue times will be insane and the devs will figure out they need to actually listen to and care about killers. This is a 2-sided game, not a 1-sided game. Killers need to be thought of too.
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If you play with Rancor and NOED, you can always secure at least 2 kills. If both sides are strong, 2 kills are balanced to me.
I play Spirit with Stridor, Bamboozle, PoP and BBQ. If Im mad, I add mori and 3/4 players are doomed.
Well, if you allow toolboxes, yes, they can "mori" you, too, but you can dodge it, if it hurt you.
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and if newbies are seeing ruin that much maybe they need to fix the damned matchmaking i barely see it in brown and yellow ranks as a survivor unless i get a swf with green or purples on my team.
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Many Survivors want NOED removed as well. And many Killers think that perk rewards Killers for not being good during the match. Your defense examples all use (according to survivors) OP Killers and/or perks that are crutches.
And your way is 100% valid, and others who like to play differently like to use different perks then you. How boring would the game be if the only viable combination what the one you just defended yourself with?
Game after game of the same killer running the same perks? How long before the Survivors and Devs found an OVER PERFORMING stat in your game to justify another nerf to shut down your alternative build?
There should be many different ways of playing this game, not just the Killers being forced to keep switching to the next best killer/perk combo once the one they like to play has been gutted.
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They're "fixing" it by not allowing you to see the other survivor ranks in the update. You see problem here?
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IMO, it is the only viable killer, but I get bored of the same killer. We all like to change killers. Thats why we dont play only the same killers. If there will be no viable killers, survivors will likely get nerfs again.
Devs change map designs. They reduce windows, pallets and change survivors perks. They improve quality for both sides.
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@KrazyAce13 toolboxes definitely need a nerf as well don't get me wrong, but DS & BT are not balanced perks in the slightest.
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Take a look at it from a business perspective: How does BHVR earn money? Who is the biggest group that spends money? Wouldn't you want to gain new customers and make existing ones happy?
Of course, these changes are short-sighted. This game can't exist without a significant amount of happy killer players.
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I upvoted your comment, I agree that even 2 toolboxes can hurt killer a lot, but I think that making them near meaningless is bad.
I think they need to be completely changed. They shouldnt speed up repair speed, but, for example, they would reduce failing a skillcheck penalty. It wouldnt boost players that dont miss skillchecks, but toolboxes wouldnt become meaningless. New or casual players would make use of them.
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So would the post have been written by @Peanits or just posted by him? I haven't watched any of his streams yet so I don't know if he is a survivor main or not.
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What they are doing is treating the symptoms, not the illness. By nerfing ruin, they're not addressing why Ruin was so widely used in the first place...
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Yeah truly, if they change Ruin without apply changes to the genrushing. Killer's games will be really hard
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But this wasn't a fix for either side, it was a fix for inexperienced players. Players who shouldn't be trying to do the checks, they should be finding the totem. And inexperienced players become experienced players, making this fix for the smallest posible slice of the population.
BHVR messed up with this change.
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Well, inexperienced killers shouldnt rely on Ruin to win. I guess, inexperienced killers will go to inexperienced ranks now. :P
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Inexperienced Killers don't have RUIN, unless you are Hag, everyone else would need some playing in order to get RUIN.
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Killer side is way more negative imbalanced than survivor side, so guess why killer side gets more changes? God those ignorants.
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People will get over it by not playing killer. Then you can wait in a lobby for 30 minutes muttering to yourself about how people "didn't get over it."
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All the killers crying for the ruin,as well as crying for the ruin all the survivors cried for Balanced Landing, Decisive Strike, borrowed time, insta med, Mettle of Man among other perks and items, plus changes in the map closing several windows and Doors making the place more closed.
No matter complaining about something, it just remains to adapt to the changes.
I am main Spirit and Legion and both were nerfed but i don't complain,I'm also a main doctor and now they buffeted him so i don't know how to feel about it but some Killers and survivors should stop depending so much on certain perks to play.
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I play killer, unless I have a survivor daily. I dont mind it. :D If it will be easier to find games without toolboxes (hopefully), its good. I dont have enough mories to fight all the toolboxes they take. You shouldnt worry about it either..
I have friends who play survivors, so I can play both solo survivor and SWF. For some reason solo take longer to find games. SWF dont wait that long. Matchmaking is slow.
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I somewhat understand changing Ruin to give newer players a chance, but they also mentioned that another reason is so it's not frustrating on veteran players.. newbies shouldn't be playing with veterans unless it's a SWF.. they justified changing Ruin based on a problem they haven't fixed yet - matchmaking.
But that's not even touching on the fact that, say matchmaking was at a good place, new players would be facing new killers. New killers, who would likely not have Ruin unless they're playing Hag.
On top of this, Ruin can also serve as a training in this sense. Survivors are encouraged to hit great skill checks because that prevents gen regression. There's no encouragement outside of ruin because yes, great skill checks without boost progression, but you're also guaranteed to progress unless you stuff up completely - so it's optional as to whether or not you hit great or good. As a result, you'll end up getting quite a few higher players who have trouble hitting great checks.
In fact, I know someone who got better at getting great skill checks just because of Ruin. Honestly, it will help new players get better at checks.
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You ever think why killers are crying for this perk because of how necessary it is in a good amount of games? There's a reason 80% of red rank games used the perk (Nearly 50% of all games in general). If they nerf Ruin, I guarentee their little 2 death 2 survive desired ratio will be thrown off (as in survivors will be escaping more & more).
Also, you list all the things that survivors cried about having nerfed. The list for killers on the other hand is quite small (perkwise). Killers mostly just complain when a killer who actually shows some chance of viability gets nerfed & becomes abusable by anyone with the slightest bit of skill in survivor. Or at times the killer may have an aspect to them that is abusable, but then the devs nerf the living hell out of the killer & don't actually solve the problem. But guess what helped these unviable killers when they had little going for them? Thats right, Ruin!
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Ruin is not a "lean back and win" perk. You still have to put in the effort of chasing and killing all 4 survivors, all the while they're already either cleansing the totem, powering through or just hitting the skill checks. Ruin is only a small bonus but every leg up is crucial.
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You know how they earn more money? By new players who stay in the game while keeping dedicated fans happy. Take a look at steam reviews and metacritic, just filter for bad reviews and check why people actually drop the game. It has nothing to do with skillchecks but with bugs not being adressed in a timely manner, dlc/paywall, camping/tunneling killers and poor optimization.
BHVR doesnt care about new players.
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sure they do. A new player has more DLC to buy to catch up than an existing player who just needs to buy 1 or 2 new ones specifically because they're licensed. The numbers growth game is very much on new players, especially with more currently popular licenses popping up. Its not necessarily a nefarious thing, but it is a fact that CAN be paired with some controversial decisions.
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If they would care about new players, they would actually fix the issues these people have.
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nah, the new players just play survivor because its more appealing and easy. thus, they are being catered to by removing things that are "unfun" for low rank survivors.
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Sure but when you look at the reviews, people who do drop the game and do not recommend it say clearly that bugs are not being fixed in a timely manner, camping/tunneling killers which will increase as bhvr increases pace of the game again, dlc/paywall and optimization.
None of what they do adress with the ruin nerf, instead they will increase it.
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The post was perfectly well written in the sense that BHVR wants to heat up the discussion in an already split community, imo...
I wonder at this point if any one of our beloved community managers even has read the post before approving it, and if really so, they just lost any respect from me regarding wanting to keep things neutral in this community.
You don't even have to be a genius noticing the obvious bias and atrocious choosing of words. But just in case, watch the reaction of popular streamers / fog whisperers and see them laughing at that post and the company while reading it !
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Both parties will cry for each perk, skill or item that is nerfe.
I really bothered and desepidated a lot when they nerfied the spirit, but i got used to getting used to their new items (but stop using the nurse) I have never found it very useful to use ruin since i have such bad luck that always :D is destroyed 10 or 5 seconds after the start of the match, some killers are lucky that their ruins are never found but others do not have it so i prefer not to use ruin and bring Pop Goes the Weasel and Overcharge.
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Yeah the risk of Ruin was so high but the reward was generally high as well (as long as survivors couldn't hit great skill checks or even got skill checks to begin with, as well as keeping the hex up as long as possible). The reward with new Ruin is high, but only if you run Surveillance & Thrilling Tremors with it. Beyond that, its use is meh or just overall bad since it does not slow down the progress as they're working on the gen. It's already a risk being that it is a hex, but now it's even more risky since basically any survivor can work through it now.
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Yes, it sucks that they are making these changes so silly,i hate genrush but it seems that it only happens wheniI play killer because when I'm a survivor the team that touches me never makes gens and sincerely sucks having to do all the gens alone. Because several of the team spend it hidden or annoying the other survivors while they are chased (They block their way or throw the pallets so that the killer catches them and then be able to use the flashlight)
:D all toxic suvs..
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So how are they keeping dedicated players happy I’m guessing only dedicated survivors fall under that because dedicated killers aren’t and should not be happy, I mean instead of fixing the game to make killers want to play for matchmaking and que times they put open matchmaking I have all night been put against rank 5s and 4s as a rank 13 killer yeah that makes me happy.....
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What are you talking about. Wow umm this post was about the bias of the dev notes not nerf changes, did I upset you somehow? Lol everyone else turned this into a nerf post go back to Fortnite...
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I wonder why none of the Mods / Devs have at least acknowledged that the post was so badly written.
It would also help if they could make a quick statement that the person who has written this post was informed about this and the next steps the community managers / lead community manager @not_Queen took to prevent this from ever happening again in the future.
If you don't know what I mean, just look up Truetalent's reaction on Youtube from the timestamp on: https://youtu.be/WWh3AxhMAGU?t=554
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I didn't get to tag this thread... Must of missed it.
Don't worry when you decide to start playing again in a week or two, you'll get better when you practice more.
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Yeah this is what I would expect from an immature member of the community. 2.2k comments and post flaming and insulting you are the poster boy of the dbd toxicity.
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Just so people can actually see what my original post was so we don’t have asshats saying I started a changes complaint post and call me a hypocrite...
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The devs said that ruin is run in 80% of RED rank games and 45% across all games total. That means that basically ruin is run in only 10% of games not red ranks. Yes this is over generalization of numbers but that's the average for the numbers they gave.
So if the math is right, then either new players are going up against too many red ranks and matchmaking is completely busted, or they are playing with red ranked friends, or something else.
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To me it is not about acknowledging imbalance in the game because the experience of each one of us may differ, to me it is the sheer fact that they did not even consider what this means for the rest of the community.
It is like you can deduct their thought process, okay ruin frustrating for new survivor players, okay lets nerf it. Any person that is not biased would probably expect them to think about some questions before lets nerf ruin like what does this mean for experienced survivor players? What does this mean for experienced killer players? What does this mean for new killer players? Will this change be healthy for the overall gameplay? Why is ruin used in 80% of red rank matches? How come ruin is used in 45% of all matches?
The post like didn't even consider any of that thus it feels like this decision is coming from somebody who is a trainee at best and had a free wish. Also there is so much dishonesty in the post like when BHVR does care about new players than they should work on the problems that these people have, check steam reviews/metacritic whatever and it is not about perks.
Also i have trouble to say this is in a nice way but when you do list so called benefits, maybe it should be beneficial for the killer, since it is a killer perk? So listing literally 3 reasons as to why this is better for survivors doesn't help anything either because on the one hand you literally shorten the time the killer has in a game and also expect them to do more. How is this making any sense in their head?
The community told the devs several times before they made changes that this is not for the better remember legion, remember mettle and everytime they were stubborn, did it anyway and look where legion is now and what happened to mettle.
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Smurf accounts and I don’t mean new accounts derankers. People who don’t play until 2 weeks prior to the next rank reset. And grouping up with high ranks as a low rank swf host.
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