Proof that the Devs are not Survivor sided
The claim that the Devs are Survivor sided also includes the claim that the Devs will implement features such that the Survivors become more powerful given their implementation.
While it's easy to just point towards a list of Survivor buffs and declare that as the proof that this is the case, I don't necessarily think that's the case.
Specifically, instead of looking at things 1 patch at a time, rewind to a year ago.
Hatch couldn't be closed. EGC didn't exist.
DS worked on first down
More safe pallets
BL infinites and instant heals allowed for crazy long chases
probably a bunch of other things I'm forgetting about. But basically if you were suddenly thrust a full year into the past playing Killer would feel far worse than now.
If you go back even further the problem becomes even worse, trending all the way back to several infinite loops per map with no perks needed and no skill needed and also gens are even faster because ######### you.
The devs that brought us to this point are the same devs working on the game now. Yet there seems to be the idea that even though the game has been getting more and more balanced over time that the same devs that got us this far also are devs that want to make Killers suffer and hate progress and whatever other random idea people have.
I'm not trying to say that the problems people claim to exist don't exist. But rather, that over time the number of problems in the game has been going down and not up, and there is no reason why we should expect this trend to stop. Will all of our problems go away in one patch? No, but the trend has been positive, not negative. So try and consider the big picture before trying to call the devs biased and terrible or whatever.
Bloodlust, Entity blockers, the entire gen regression mechanic, Several killer animation speedups, the EGC and Hatch closing wouldn't have been added if the devs were truely as Survivor sided as people claim.
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Lol killer nerfs are inherently survivor buffs by definition
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Now, look. Just like my post of "Ruin: Old vs. New", this post will be ignored because of the confirmation bias that's sweeping through the forums.
Or, like a lot of other posts, you're just going to get told you're wrong in colourful ways.
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This is a pretty good point. Either way, the Killer mains are going to disagree and still carry on with this "Devs are Survivor biased" parade.
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Dude the nerfs that yout talk about shouldn't even be considerd nerf except for balanced landing and instaheals. Ds was a rework and is still very strong. Safe pallets shouldn't exist and there is still many in the maps Hatch close is good but egc doesn't help killer in any way its more of a white flag actually scince you can literally open doors for survivor to make them leave. And all the bloodloust blockers and little mechanics to help the killer is just bandaid fixes that doesn't solve the problem of a badly one sided designed game.
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Someone explain to me why the patch note lists three benefits for Hex ruin but all of it are for Survivors?
Lol.
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this 100%
nothing more
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Killers can stop complaining, go on the PTB if they're on PC and experiment for themselves. Also, 200% regression speed is a Survivor sided thing?
The main things that they were topping off is that it was OP against lower rank players, near useless at higher ranks and they wanted to change it to be more consistent in ALL ranks.
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In theory all mechanics should have been released in a state that don't have whatever problems they had. The point is that for whatever reason the game went from Survivor sided to less Survivor sided over the course of 3 years, and the trend has been continuous.
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Compare the list of survivor nerfs to killer nerfs.
Then come back.
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don't. People get tunnel-visioned on the length of the lists when they do that instead of the impact of the individual changes.
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Nerfs are objectively nerfs.
You just don't like to admit I have a point.
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They are, but not all nerfs are equally impactful. Some nerfs are utterly game changing while others are hardly noticeable.
So when looking at a list of nerfs you can't just check the length, but also the quality of the individual nerfs.
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Riiiiight so one side being nerfed more is not more impactful.
You wanna talk about Legion? I want to talk about Legion.
Legion has been gutted and then repeatably nerfed into the ground time and time again. He's unironically considered one of the worst killers in the game by a large part of the community and unless you're a die-hard Legion main (May God have mercy on your poor soul, I actually feel bad for you Legion mains out there). He's at a point where most people don't even play him anymore.
Removing a character isnt impactful.
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I love how the clip you posted is from the beta and has nothing to do with this year at all.
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Alright fine last year. And again you posted beta footage.
Stuff that isnt relevant because it's YEARS old.
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I think the thing people really lose sight of when talking balance is the fact that it's not an equal game. It's asymmetrical and you can't really balance it perfectly. Every survivor Nerf impacts four people per game. Every decision made in regards to survivors has to be made knowing there's four potential strangers in that lobby that don't know how the others play. But also potentially 4 people on voice.
Killer is always alone and always makes the same play style choices. There's no variance for teammates, only opponents. You have to balance for survivors on both polar opposites of play. But not killer. As such, things tend to be polarizing.
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I never thought they were, but this patch has me convinced it's definitely survivor favored. Unless there is some major survivor nerf to gen speed like next patch, I don't see how it could be seen any other way.
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I too enjoy arguing with someone but maintaining my bias so it ends up being pointless in a discussion.
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We can't use stuff from that time period to back up either argument because that is literally 3 years ago when how they approached balance and map design was entirely different due to lack of man power.
You're mad because you cannot replicate something like this within the current and up to date development of the game so you choose to run from it because you are not able to back up your arguments.
So let's look at last year's survivor buffs shall we?
Mettle of Man's entire existence was a disgusting example of how survivors get constantly babied. It took over a month for them to nerf a perk that rewarded you for getting hit, classy.
Survivors all getting notified with a jarring sound effect when exposed was in play, because that was totally necessary.
Badham is STILL a super safe map for survivors but now they have 5 of them. Lovely.
BT has been buffed repeatably, despite being in a position everyone said was ok.
I can go on if you'd like, but I know I'm full of personal bias.
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They still happened. And yes, you are full of personal bias. Your post history makes that very clear.
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How they handled the situations and their community was vastly different back then, thats not bias that is objective fact.
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lol
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I'm sorry if i gave the intention you were a survivor main, wasn't my intention at all.
I have no clue what you main and I personally don't care. No matter what side you play on we can all agree this game has severely glaring issues.
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No point in trying to sway the opinion of someone with a hardcore bias for killer. I find it funny, so I will laugh instead.
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So out of curiosity how do you feel about hardcore Survivor bias?
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Hardcore survivor bias is equally as stupid as hardcore killer bias.
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Finally something we can agree on.
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Proof that they are:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/118227/3-5-0-mid-chapter-patch-notes
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Nah I'm the same way fam you're good.
I learned a long time ago not to take forums too seriously, it just leads to a lot of unnecessary stress. Sorry if I appeared the same way to you. <3
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Dude the hatch closing is a good thing. No one wants to have a hatch stand off that lasts all day and egc was to prevent survivors t bagging at exit gate for as long as they wanted to. Ds is still pretty good so idk what you're complaining about and there's definitely a problem with map designs if there's tons of safe pallets and infinites. Bloodlust is kind of a weird one cause slow killers definitely need it and entity blocker is definitely needed cause there's no way a survivor vaulting a window as many times as they want is balanced.
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@TutorialEntity the OP's entire point was things have moved fairly consistently towards a more balanced game. Have the devs made poor choices along the way? Of course. MoM was a terrible idea. The Ruin nerf is another example. But you can't disregard the progress that has been made. There have been so many things added over the years to fix early mistakes. The overall direction they've taken proves they aren't survivor biased. Otherwise the vast improvements they've made would never have happened.
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ROFL,made a same subject forum yesterday,"the devs don't listen" WRONG
XD same idea
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Yes. Just like survivor nerfs are killer buffs by definition. That is part of the OP's point. There have been many survivor nerfs over the years. OP even gave some examples. By definition, those are killer buffs. The point the OP was making that you failed to understand is that regardless of a few recent killer nerfs, killers are far better off today than they were a year or two ago. This is 100% true.
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I would have thought fixing game breaking issues like infinite loops would be considered a big improvement.
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As a survivor main , yeah, that was messed up.
Like if you want to change stuff make it sound good for that side.
"We reworked doctor to fix some design issues that no one found fun and are trying to get him ready into a useable state"
That is neutral and it addressed that both sides hated him
Ruin i got no clue other then "testing a rework of ruin for after gen rushing has been worked on"
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Sure. Healing times were substantially increased for survivors. That is an unequivocal survivor nerf and killer buff. The End Game Collapse (EGC) massively favors the killer by sacrificing survivors in a short amount of time once the hatch is closed. Closing the hatch is also a massive killer buff and survivor nerf.
Decisive strike can no longer be used before a survivor is hooked. Lots of pallets and too safe loops have been removed which are all survivor nerfs and thus killer buffs. The killer pick up animation is faster which is a direct killer buff and survivor nerf since it his harder to blind the killer or pallet stun the killer since they have less time to get into position.
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Ummm
The hatch was severely survivor sided for almost 3 years. Stop
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They don't make only survivor sided changes, but you can't ignore that the last patch notes were incredibly survivor biased and that was a hard hit for many killer players. Plus, devs didn't even said something like : "We nerf Ruin now, but we'll keep monitoring gen speeds, to see if they need changes as well" or "We are gonna reduce some maps in size, so patrolling gens can actually be a thing". They just threw this Ruin nerf and then call it a day.
Post edited by Marcus on4 -
I already played enough as both Survivor then killer and I concluded that it's bonkers so what now? Majority of my playtime with this game is on Survivor and I can tell you that this is survivor sided. Unless you're playing a mobility killer which most killers aren't then Ruin is flat out useless for them.
They said none of that reasoning in the patch notes, What are you on about? In fact they said that perk provides very little risk on behalf of the killer lmfao. Stop lying.
Oh yeah it was so inconsistent that now everyone can just bring a tool box and go nuts. Bravo, Bhvr.
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Honestly same
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We'll see the inevitable Toolbox nerf, and one that I have asked for before. And what am I lying about?
I can't test on the PTB, so I can't lie about it's effectiveness.
Mobility killers also already rule the game, so that argument is lessened.
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Alright, you want evidence of it? Look no further than the recent patch notes in the wording, and lack of foresight on how removing a critical perk without any adjustments to the gens completely obliterated the early game and shifted the entire killer loadout to late game. Right now the only killers that have any sort of meaningful pressure are those with high mobility, meaning 3 killers total, are your only shot at actually getting any semblance of pressure established early game. Those changes were implemented with only the survivor in mind, without any real thought, as usual, of the QOL of the killer side of the game.
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Exactly why the update is bonkers. Nerfing Ruin but still failing to address the issue with gen speed and maps? It's a mistimed update. You don't do an update this stupid and without thinking why this particular perk is used a lot and just go "Oh just wait for the toolbox nerf".
You said this nonsense "The main things that they were topping off is that it was OP against lower rank players, near useless at higher ranks and they wanted to change it to be more consistent in ALL ranks." When the developers never mentioned this as one of the core reason to nerfing Ruin and in fact the whole post begs to differ. There's a limit to faking argument points, mate.
"Mobility killers also already rule the game, so that argument is lessened." So that invalids the whole argument? Hey guys just use Billy 24/7 don't use any other killers!
What a joke.
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Nurse, Billy, (to an extent) Demagorgon and I never said invalidates.
You also have Myers and Ghostface in top ranks, who have instant downs.
The toolbox or generator nerf will soon follow with Ruin falling out.
And they did mention the consistency thing, across the forums. If you ever actually looked.
Calm your farm. It's not the end of the world, and it's just a game.
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Guys. 1 bad update isn't enough to overturn years of consistent (albeit very slow) improvement.
Even several wouldn't be enough.
We get that the devs suck at communication for the most part. But it's unfair to turn on them just because they have flaws sometimes, and the whole "oh they've shown their true colors now" thing is just total BS.
We get it, they should word their things better and address ######### faster. However if you are going to complain at least keep it to what is actually true. The devs don't hate you and they do (eventually) get to solving whatever problems get found with the game.
Their direct perk buffs have been great. EGC was (mostly) great. Oni once they fix his flick is cool. New Doctor is really cool and it sounds like he's being buffed after the PTB.
Even new Ruin is still a good perk, even if it obviously won't compare to current Ruin (lets be honest nothing really can compare to current Ruin) and now that Peanits has explained more about why Ruin is being changed like this it even seems like it could be good in the long run.
Basically the idea (according to Peanits) is that by removing Ruin the devs can see what the game looks like without it with a much bigger sample size. Obviously we (as players) expect to see gen rushing be a problem. If this is the case then the Devs should expect to see this and know the exact magnitude of the problem thus letting them address it properly with a non-bandaid basekit fix. However if they tried to address it immediately, then Ruin masking the issue makes it extremely difficult to implement the proper solution.
Should they have said all of that in the dev update? Totally. But if you don't get blinded by poor details and look at the big picture you will see that the devs genuinely are trying to fix the games problems.
In terms of actually succeeding they aren't 100%. But that's not the point. Biased devs wouldn't try to fix these kinds of issues at all.
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THANK YOU! Someone finally said it all!
I felt like I was the only one trying to say that there is more to this problem than one perk, and that we should give it a little time.
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Oh yeah 'Top rank' as if that matters when it's polluted with potatoes. I'm going by their own words in the dev post which shown zero signs that it was because it was inconsistent. Just because developers are doing damage control in the forums so sheeps can nod their head mindlessly doesn't mean that's what they wanted initially.
I am calm, I've been playing matches here and there while replying. I don't mince words, not a sign of me losing my cool.
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Regarding Legion:
Legion was never a good Killer to begin with. Even in his first appearance, he was simply bad. Yes, his power was lethal. But for what price? Nobody enjoyed playing against Legion. There was exactly no Skill involved, because you can either cheese or simply can down people without Counterplay. Of course, this would be the same with Nurse, BUT Nurse has insane amount of mobility. Legion not. So while you can down a single Survivor 100%, you will lose the game because of it. So it is not like Legion was a Top Tier Killer, most people said that he was one of the weakest Killers, and he was and still is.
Thanks for this Thread, you have a lot of valid points. Way more than other people. Some people still bring the Depip-Squad up, when talking about Balance, which is simply stupid, because a lot of things that made this "project" even possible dont exist anymore. It is simply outdated and most likely not repeatable during this time.
The Devs are not survivor-biased. The only mistake they did with the Ruin Announcement was the way of presenting it, but honestly, I dont know any way of presenting it in another way. Because you cannot simply say that the Perk is too powerful because used to often. This would not make sense. Also you cannot say that other things might or will follow after the Ruin Rework, because if nothing happens, because the Trial Times will be fine afterwards, people will stick to this point and ask about it over and over again. Because, what is undenieable: Even if they would brought up a second Objective or increased Gentimes, people would still use Ruin. Because, you know, what worked in brown Ranks will work in Red Ranks, sure about that. This is why people are upset about DS - it does not work for them to tunnel and hook someone. So DS is the problem and not their mentality that it should be super-easy to take one Survivor out of the game, shifting it to a easy 3v1.
I also feel that a lot of Content Creators can shift that in one way or the other. Like, regarding Gens, there are quite a lot of people which are either Mains or play both sides, but clearly say that "if you get genrushed, you did not put up enough pressure". This is 100% correct and does not have anything to do with Ruin. This also does not mean that a Killer is bad, it just does mean that he was not able to put enough pressure. This can have multiple reasons - Survivors were just better would be one. Or simply the Map, it is a super-huge Map. Or you get on Cowshed where a lot of strong Tiles can spawn back to back. Or, the newest addition: You are at a much lower Rank than the Survivors, where it is impossible to pressure them, because they are on a different Skill Level.
Other Content Creators however are terribly one-sided and they are also more vocal. Like tru3ta1ent, he is clearly Killer-sided, hiding this behind "I play both sides". All of his arguments can be countered by himself, like he claims that people say that when a Killer loses that the Killer player was bad and not that Survivors are too strong. However, when he loses as Survivor, the Survivors were bad, but no word about the Killer being good here. Or some arguments are simply dumb - like the Balanced Landing Nerf, was normalization to him. But when a solid Object on a Map gets its collision (which it should have in the first place) so that Huntress cannot throw through it, it is a clear Killer Nerf. Whoever follows his opinions should really watch other Content Creators first and then think about it.
Anyway, aside from Content Creators:
I feel that players should trust the Devs. They know far more about the game and its development than 99% of the playerbase (including me and their Fog Whisperers, I dont want to exclude me from that). DBD is a great game, when it comes to visual appearance and gameplay. The Balance might not be 100% there, but it is more balanced than it ever was. And the Bugs, of course. But I have a lot of fun playing this game, and people who complain will also have it - otherwise they would just leave instead of constantly coming back to it. And even if the Devs dont play a lot of DBD or are not good at it - sure they are not good at the game. As a Developer, you need to know what is going on but not being good at the game. Because instead of playing it, you are developing it. A Dev will never be as good as a Fog Whisperer, who creates content for DBD, sometimes even for a living. And honestly, if I would work on DBD as a fulltime Job, when I come home, I most likely dont want to spend my time with DBD as much as I am doing that know (like, working in a restaurant as a cook, you will probably not eat there and rather grab a Burger from McDonalds, which will be worse and more unhealthy, but is different from what you are doing the whole day).
Personally, I will exclude myself from Ruin Discussions until it is live and people have tested it. It is kinda draining to tell the same thing over and over again, because I have some points which are simply true, because I am playing Killer myself in higher Ranks, and I am NOT good at playing Killer in my opinion. I am pretty sure that many Killers on this Forum will and are perfoming better than me and they will still do that without Ruin. But maybe people will experience the same as I did, when stopping to run Ruin - that it feels more relaxed, because you dont have to care for 7 Gens, 4 Survivors AND a Totem and you dont need to feel ultra-pressured when its gone.
So yeah, thank you for this Thread. Nice to see that Forum Users put some thoughts in it. Sadly you will be demolished here, but you are absolutely correct with what you are saying.
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I would like to read your thoughts on the new ruin after it goes live first.
I'm already running surveillance on almost every killer to get used to it.
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Jfc have you not read the update log? It only talks about the benefits for survivors and that the killer has to do more etc. If that is not biased then you should get some glasses.
I play both and can say that it is a very survivor favoured game no matter how you twist and turn it. There is no way with how the game works to make it balanced.
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