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Would you rather have gen times slowed down or toolboxes nerfed?
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You get rewarded only with points plus you can practise for other skills like DS (yeah people fail it sometimes)
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Things that speed up objectives break the game 😝 like toolboxes and insta downs
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You could also make maps smaller and reduce all the safe places survs have like on coldwind farm.
There are many things to be adressed for example trapper have to move all the way, hag have to put traps... etc
Unless you make trapper have traps already with him and hag traps not being removed those will have an slight benefit
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The "gen rush" happens every game you play in a 12 hour session at red ranks
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Force of Will in legacy is a great analogy; so many matches are literally decided by coin flip and the mere existence of FoW prevents everyone from going all in all the time without risk. Without it there's nothing checking the worst combos from being pure variance, and while Ruin isn't as reliable as FoW it still plays a similar role. Not having to consider it will have an impact
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I agree, there should be a objective in the beginning before starting on gens to give the killer time to get set. Depending on how long that start objective last, toolboxes can be used to get back time lost :p
I was also thinking of something. Let's say ever killer has there own event that happens to effect gens. But a event none the less. A random event like skill checks to slow down gen progress. Say crows hate the noise of a gen so they come and peck at you? ( Have to drive them off ) killer pasific events could happen like there is a timer trap on every gen that will snap randomly. Making the surv jump back for a moment? ( Huntress - trapper ) I don't have time to finish this comment but anything good out of this?
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@Peanits Thank you for being engaged with the community. You reassured me you guys are actively listening and trying your best to make the appropriate changes. This community can be extremely toxic my after matches inbox can reflect that. I thank you and the rest of the dev's for your diligence and perseverance through all the negativity. 👍
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Ah well that's not really a good comparison. Killers are all designed differently, where as all survivors have the same objective. Killers powers are balanced individually, Myers instadown is balanced around his power, having instadowns means he is lacking in other areas.
Survivors all have the same objective, it doesn't change depending on what survivor you are playing. When they bring toolboxes into a match, it simply decreases objective time and that's it.
The only partial equivalant to toolboxes that killers have are addons, but they mostly don't affect objective time as much as toolboxes do. There are some that do need nerfing though, like Iridiscent Head.
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Huntress can only Insta-down with an add on.
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I would say yes, but it is an ineffective tweak, because changing it like that necessitates revisiting any other regression style perks (Pop, Lullaby, etc.), including the "improved" ruin.
If they made ruin a non-hex, I think it would be just fine. That type of design would result in rewarding players who maintain gen pressure, and killers who maintain gen pressure. Balance. The ability for survivors to remove it because of the hex means it will NEVER be the "late-game perk" that BHVR claims it will be.
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Survivor items are more like cheats to the game. Weakening an item like toolbox is like weakening cheat in the game. You can make a cheat so worthless that it never get used like Green keys, but It doesn't change base game. I don't think Hex:Ruin was used 80% of the games because of the item in the game. I think everyone just considered Old hex:ruin as default hard mode. It was almost like normal mode. It almost felt strange to be able disable hard mode. I feel like killer is going to be very stressful and it will feel very draining to play so much so that i'd be concerned about matchmaking more than the game. Survivor is going to feel too much like baby mode now and in some regard it kinda already did feel like that against 90% of the killer cast anyway. hopefully some creative remedy is made to the base game.
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Thats true but the usual sweaty rank 1 match usually sees ppl running med kits instead of toolboxes, and the gens are super quick with the standard 80 sec.
since loops make killers waste so much time compared to gens speed its much more optimal to play stealth killers and keep everybody injured and this way medkit help a lot. Not every single game is the same but I see a toolbox in high tier play more unlikely than a medkit.
little off topic semi related: also 3 mins genrush game wouldnt be beneficial for either side. Escaping doesnt mean piping or getting points.
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While toolboxes are currently an issue, even without them there is still a gen speed issue so they are not the sole problem.
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If I had to pick I’d say toolboxes. Gens are already the most boring thing we do as survivors so increasing that time of just holding down a button will probably make survivors not want to play at all. I’d suggest making a secondary objective like maybe after fixing a gen you have to carry a power cable to the door or a power box so that the door can get powered. Just something else to do that would make the game longer. Hex ruin was a secondary objective if you couldn’t power through it.
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I'd rather have lower generator times but more gens to be completed. 80 seconds is a long time to be doing one thing.
I'd like to find parts before being able to repair a generator. I don't the additional/prerequisite objective to be tedious like Ruin.
Go to a various jungle gyms or areas where totems normally spawn and see toolboxes/gears that allow you to start work on the generators.
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First off gens don't need to be over but that being said toolboxes Because even a purple only speeds up solo time buy 4 seconds so not even worth bringing
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Thank you, Peanits, for saying this — it really helps. 😁🤗
I felt like if you added this into the patch notes with your reasoning, things wouldn't have been that bad because everyone thought you disregarded the main reason why killers use Ruin.
Edit: I didn't answer OPs response, I prefer Toolboxes to be changed.
They should make repairing generators easier, but not faster.
For example, they can increase the success zones and grant a small chance that failed skill checks don't cause an explosion.
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I'd rather have another Objective.
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Personally I am all for slowing down the toolbox repair speed if you are making adjustments to hex ruin. Personally I think ruin is op at any rate, and ruin is also why so many people bring toolboxes now. It is over used. I can almost guarantee at least 75% of my matches have either ruin or barbecue and chili on or they have both. The only way to get anything done is to have toolboxes. You are either repairing and trying to fight ruin's effect or moving because someone got hooked and the killer is coming to someone's aura.
I play both survivor and killer (though I main as a survivor), and when i am the killer it is ridiculous how fast some gens get done becuase I dont have hex ruin and everyone is bringing toolboxes expecting me to have ruin on.
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the issue is that gen rush happens even without toolboxes, every swf team can coordinate and repair gens in 2 or 3 people while the killer is in a chase.
I genuinely think you are trying to do the best for the game, and yes, ruin might have needed a rework at some point, but that was not the time imo, the game simply isn't prepared for this, this will just unbalance the game.
My question is, if it will show up (and it Will) to spoil the fun so much, what you will do? leave it like this till there will be a rework at some point in the future?
this worries me because, while you will think of a balance change, many players will grow tired
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I agree with you when I play survivor I don't want to have to hold M1 for even longer
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Screw toolboxes. I only bring them to sabo hooks
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Heresy
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Gen's take 80 seconds to complete alone, that's 40 seconds for two people to complete, that's without including items, perks, or great skill checks. A competent team with those mathematics's alone will have the gates powered in one minute, and twenty seconds or less of repair time on generators in a match with average and above survivors that know to prioritize repairing generators.
Don't believe me? Just watch the very streams of the players BHVR respects the most, you can see it via observation alone, many streamers that play both killer and survivor say the repair speeds is broken, and the only ones who don't agree are the ones who mostly play survivor.
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If you want toolboxes nerfed then they need to nerf slow down perks and add ons that stack.
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I think toolboxes should recieve a change. i made a post about an idea i had for a potential change.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/118651/toolbox-change-idea#latest
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It's a pretty simple fix, make totems slow down gets. At start of match gens move at half speed and each cleansed totem makes them go 10% faster. Once all totems are cleansed gens move at 100% speed. Simple, gives a secondary objective but doesn't change the core mechanics
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BOTH
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I would rather killers got better at playing.
I wish I hadn't cleared my PS4 storage, because it's filled with 4 man SWF teams, bringing the "gen rush" kit, BNP, prove thyself, streetwise, commodious, swivels, efficiency and sometimes a looper for distraction. It just means I change tactics in my load out, bring Franklin's and overwhelming presence, no problem! Go do what you're supposed to do as killer, patrol gens and kill the gen jockey's, it's really that simple.
This is the issue with the survivors and killers crying out for changes to this and that, you only want to run your 4 meta perks, which are easily counterable, then cry when it's unsuccessful. Games broke! Survivor OP! Killer OP! No, you're just a bad gamer, you're not adjusting your strategy to suit the trial you're entering. If I see 4 toolboxes, I change my perks. If I see 4 med kits, I change my perks, caulrophibia, sloppy, thana. If I see 4 flashlights (well, lore than 2 it's common) then it's lightborn. I do t come here crying because the ######### ruin, BBQC, nurses and whatever standard ######### you use isn't useful for that game.
Nothing is OP, everything has counter play, bit it requires using your brain
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Why didn't they wright that in the midchapter anouncment? I think the outcry woundn't be so hard if the option of gen time changes in the forseeable future would have been in it
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Toolboxes for sure.
Toolboxes with Slightly/Moderately/Considerably/Tremendously increased repair speed repair at a rate of 10/15/20/25% faster.
I think it would be good to reduce it to 7/12/17/22%.
Either this or limit how much repair speed can stack with add ons because an engineer toolbox with a socket swivel & Clean Rag shouldn’t allow you to repair 50% faster.
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Definitely Gen's need to take one survivor 120 seconds instead of 80 seconds because they fly without ruin and especially after ruin is completely nerfed and useless
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Agreed but i worry nerfing gen speed will make it worse for survivors but who knows
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I can use Franklin's if I have an issue with toolboxes and it will apply more map pressure, because the survivors have to run around more to get their items back, minus some charges.
But right now, there is nothing I can do against gen times and as the Umbra Clip has shown, it is possible to run straight to the survivors and lose a gen without a chance to contest it.
I rather have a fighting chance, than nerfing items and add-ons.
Nerfing toolboxes wouldn't change anything. They either will still be good enough and be used, or become insignificant, a joke and will be replaced by other items (Medkits, Keys, Flashlights).
So the worst thing the devs could do is nerfing toolboxes.
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They need to stop nerfing why try to fix something that aint broken? There gonna kill the game little by little mark my words.
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And then ppl are so toxic camping tunnel tea bagging its sad who aint gonna get mad? And if u say something how u feel ppl cry like a baby and report u so its useless all i know is dbd aint like it use to be started with helping the killer with the end game and now the ruin hex? Whats next ppl? Stop already ur gonna kill the best game that ever been put out stop!
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Toolboxes. I don't think base gen times are a problem when survivors have the intended amount of information. If solos manage to slam out gens without multiple people running Kindred, they guessed on hook saves and got lucky or the killer didn't end chases quick enough. With comms, it's a bit more nebulous as survivors have up to 8 free perk slots via comms if it's a 4 man. They get free Kindred and OoO. But that doesn't mean every SWF uses comms that way. I would wager that you don't know you played against a SWF most of the time.
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1 small change to the core game play mechanics that I think will help:
Whenever a killer kicks a gen, or a perk causes a gen to begin regressing, it automatically loses 10% of its progress to kick off the regression by default.
For obvious reasons this means that some perks like PGTW will have to be adjusted down from 25% to 15% which gets added onto the default 10% in order to remain balanced. What does this do for the game though? Glad you asked:
- Lower mobility killers can now hold off a gens completion better, and thus have more stalling power and pressure.
- No more Tap and Run tactics from survivors attempting to stop a gens regression because that only gives the killers a free pass to knock off another 10%.
- Encourages survivors to employ more distraction tactics to draw the killer away, instead of looping around a regressing gen.
- Puts kicking gens on par with failing a skill check.
- Makes perks like Surge, Dying Light, and Thanatophobia more valuable as tools for stalling gen completion for all killers, as well as become more competitive against the survivors tools and perks that increase gen repair speeds.
- New Ruin actually earns its Hex Status as an OP but destroyable perk by hitting gens with that 10% drop to kick off the increased 200% regression speed every time a survivor leaves a gen.
A killer attempting to defend a single generator can see it completed in front of them by a team of 2 survivors because no matter how many times they kick it, or how effective they are at pushing survivors off of it, unless survivors don't touch it for 32 seconds, it's not going to lose even 10% of its progress. That's how much time it represents to a killer, 10% = 32 seconds at normal regression speed, whereas a lone survivor without tools to increase their repair rate can fix that 10% loss in only 10 seconds. New Ruin brings killers closer to that by dropping 10% every 16 seconds instead of 32, but its a Hex and won't last to the late game its been redesigned for.
Therein lies the primary flaw in the logic behind Ruin's rework: Its designed to be better in the late game! No killer players ever take a Hex Perk into a trial expecting it to last more than 2 minutes at best. The moment survivors are notified of any Hex perk working against them, they find and destroy it before it can do any major damage. The new Ruin will be treated no differently because not only are they notified of its existence, its also a glowing 1500 BP totem that have a poor history of being hidden well enough to last. I've had games where I've brought in Thrill of the Hunt alone just to see how fast it dies, and like all Hex perks, it hardly ever lasts more than 2 minutes. Survivors are never going to see a Hex totem and then Choose to let it stay active until they feel they need to cleanse it... if its lit, it dies.
In Ruins new state, the 200% regression speed is still nowhere near to being on par with how fast survivors can repair generators, much less when they have Cooperative actions, Toolboxes, Add-ons and Perks that increase their repair rates dramatically. Keeping pressure on generators is always a losing battle for the killer because unless they are downing/hooking every survivor they encounter and getting back to the generators to keep them regressing, every 20-25 seconds, there's no way the average killer can compete against the survivors repair speed, even with all the right tools.
By having generators begin regression with an immediate 10% loss, all killers get a better chance at applying adequate pressure in early, mid, and late game. Sure it only buys them 10 seconds or less on a generator that's near completion, but the killers experience is always a struggle against time, and that 10 seconds may be all the leniency a killer needs to turn a game around.
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I sure do hope it's both :^D
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you got a lot cooler with that post
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Bro, brown toolboxes say moderately. It’s the same as the Commodious. They just have less charges. Moderately is 15% increase. Got to the official wiki and check it out.
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Toolboxes need to be nerfed, and maps need to be fixed. The 80 seconds are fine, all we need is buffs for the bad killers
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Huh. Apparently they changed it. It used to be slightly.
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Well, devs probably won't notice if toolboxes are fun to play against as they don't really hinder new players and they didn't identify any issues with them.
Toolboxes should give you more points and bigger skillchecks only.
Great skillchecks shouldn't give ANY bonus progress on the gen and instead reward the player with more BP's then now.
Also, gen being worked on by many people should be fixed in 44 seconds but in around 60~. Survivors already gain double or triple BP's for coop action, there is no need to remove the time from killers matches.
Now that wishes are done let's wait and see them do nothing to gen speeds and toolboxes.
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if it has to be one of those two options, I want toolboxes nerfed. even the 15% from a brown toolbox is so much more than people give it credit for.
but if I dare ask for more than just one of those two options, as both a killer and a survivor: Survivors need another objective. My idea is to have a big circuit breaker somewhere in the map. after the second and fourth generator are completed, either a Circuit will have to be found and replaced, or a switch will have to be flipped.
if this ends up not doing much, everyone on a generator when this switch is flipped will be shocked. whether that means they scream, or if that means they become injured, I feel a reason to NOT be on generators for more than a few seconds is needed.
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Yes.
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Gen times slowed down. If you see 4 toolboxes you can still play franklins and i wouldn't care too much about boxes found ingame
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Gen times slowed down
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Toolboxes make it easier, but even without them optimal players who only focus on optimal gen progression by rotating entirely to make sure you are always occupied....there is nothing you can really do unless they mess up hard on the last gen.
The entire game against those groups, takes place on the last gen. You can watch Tru3 or Otz playing those matches, and they get like 1 or 2 hooks and 4 gens are just gone, all the stress and pressure of having to somehow kill all survivors in that narrow end game timespan is so frustrating.
I just wish more of the game took place in the middle and not at the very end.
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