The Hillbilly Problem
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#########? Billy is easy as hell to abuse. Feather the chainsaw after getting bloodlust and they can never escape. His only weakness is what literally every other killer in the game is weak to: strong loops.
Let's analyze him for a sec shall we? One he has his power instantly at the beginning of a match. Two it has zero cooldown. Three it's an insta-down skipping the two hit mechanics put in place. Four it doubles as a mobility ability with an already mobile killer so you both get downed and have to deal with continuous chase pressure. It can instantly destroy pallets or down the survivor, so there's zero downside to charging at a pallet. Dead zones are a death sentence. Unhooking in line of sight is too.
And no, Billy isn't a shining example of most balanced killer. If you max out every stat you're not balanced. Showing videos of a highly coordinated swf abusing game mechanics means the outlier is strong survivors paired with crappy level design, not weak killers. I can think of several survivor perks that are busted. Every aura perk for example. There's just too much feedback in a game that thrives in ambiguity. Spinechill should be line-of-sight. Etc.
But once they do rework Billy (which they are along with his maps), there's at least 3 things I can think of them doing. Most obvious is an ability cooldown/charge. Longer you hold a sprint, longer recovery is. Second would be a visual impairment like tunnel vision while traveling. And third is add-ons. But if it's like the Nurse, his one hit down will probably become an iridescent add-on instead of base.
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I would love to match up against you. You are one of those players who take the easy way out. Insta-down and using Moris while thinking you are relevant to this game in skill. Kids like you are the reason things won't change in regards to this game's mechanics, cannot take a step back to look objectively. You think that just because you catch and down a survivor out of place that they are trash and you are so good. Delusional thinking. I am not convinced.
And for the record, I punish more Billys than I lose to them. Toxicity and punishment are necessary to all red rank Billy players. Pray I don't find you son.
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You tagged console videos?! Boost players on both sides on the field. Come try PC and see where you stand. Also, I am aware of the addons that decrease cooldown. Pay attention to the rework that will be coming out. RIP your confidence. #NotEvenClose
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Snapshots are easily modified.
You claim to get 4k nonstop.
Recording a session of you playing billy for even 2 hours and getting 4ks recorded, would be proof to what youce claimed.
They just asked for proof that is damn near not modifiable.
If you 4k with billy all day, it should be eeeeasy.
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No, they doubted that you CONSTANTLY 4k as billy in red ranks.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
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No beating billy comes down to making him turn the wrong way, knowing how and where to loop, when to use a pallet against him or bait his saw, when to not be altruistic and let him snowball, when to hide or not when you HEAR the saw, and a few other things.
But I guess those wouldnt fit your narrative of "billy is a 50/50 braindead killer with no skill".
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Takes 5 mins to make a twitch account. Or YouTube. And I'm pretty sure xbox can stream or upload directly to those.
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@PigMainClaudette if you let a killer get that close to you to where they are literally touching you there is a problem, also you don't balance for low skill players you balance for red/purple ranks that have invested time in the game. I respectfully disagree that hillbilly needs any changes besides add-ons.
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People Are responding, with reasons that billy isnt as easy to cheese kills as you say.
Edit: thought you were also the one uploading pics for no reason haha.
Point stands. Nobody is parroting. You just dont like what they're saying.
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Oh boy, Nurse, Spirit, now Billy.
Beating Billy comes down to appropriate positioning and playing safe at pallets so he becomes an M1 killer. For example you can't just sit on a gen and wait for a Billy to come up to you before you start running, which I'm sure people who complain about him do.
Guess what? Billy and Huntress are what I would call two of the most well balanced killers in the game, and they have decent counterplay to them both.
Honestly, it really gets tiring seeing so many bad players complain about things they don't understand. Are we playing the same game?
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easy or not. Billy is broken! example? you are 4 steps from the window
You will fall to the ground before crossing it or after crossing it.
So broken!
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Very well wrote. I appreciate you candor and your objective observation. But watch out, there are some Billy mains in this thread that would rather uninstall than see a rework on Billy.
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That's not billy, that's just windows. You can run vault through, take 2 steps and still get hit.
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@Endstille this guy Endstille doesn't have anything to say. You give him proof and the facts and he doesn't have ######### to say. This little democrat beta cannot fathom the fact that his only way to stay "good" is by using easy mode Hillbilly. Go play Minecraft already with your logic and sense of competition. #Irrelevant
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So basically you want a viable killer to be nerfed for no logical reason even though he can be looped like any basic M1 killer. This is some top tier bait.
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First of all if they rework billy and under rework they nerf his ability to do a map presue they good luck with playing this game decently as surv.
Second if you think that killer don't need skill to be played, they you are probably surv only or simply mediocore killer player. The thing is when good billy player comes usualy that player knows how to play and has some skills(in most cases they are the top of the killer players).
Third ye after billy you survs main will probably find another killer to cry for it, in the end it will come that rotten fields is to small for safe gen progresion.
Fourth personaly i would like every killer to get rework and that some become more powered and others weaker and that devs keep rotating them. But if they only nerf killers game will be dead.
Fifth no one will hate you cz of you narrow seeing but also no one will keep playing if you and the players like you keep getting what you want.
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Pretty much this. "Oh...I made a thread and nobody agrees with it..they're all just parroting".
This should tell you everything you need to know. When everyone else believes he's fine, the problem isn't Hillbilly. The problem is the people saying he's a problem.
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Yes thank you that is exactly what I doubted. A whole week with nothing but 4ks in red ranks without perks and he did like 7 matches. @underlord99 so just that you understand this as well. I do not doubt that you can 4k, why would I? It was the claim of doing this for a week and getting nothing else.
OH NO somebody 4ked, call the devs immediately for nerfs. Meanwhile I posted you several games where all 4 survivors do not equip anything and it is either 4man escape or a 3man escape.
Oh and uh you know your insults mean so little to the rest of the world. My view on you guys over there? Shouldn't you be busy building a wall to mexico and being paid by mexico for it? 🤣
The people like you are the reason this game becomes so mindnumbing boring, you can not hit skillchecks, you cry for nerfs cause you are bad at the game. Before billy it was ruin, before ruin it was spirit, before spirit it was nurse blablabla the cryfest of you noobs repeats on and on. The only thing left is to mock you and have a bet running on what is going to be next.
Meanwhile you make the game for everybody else easier and boring because you refuse to improve, you are so full of it you come burping in even with your facts wrong like "put a cooldown on his saw" which already exists but once again, no skill, no knowledge and cryfest.
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I expect more post like this the closer Billy's "addon" rework gets.
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He has none of the restrictions on his instadown or speed that other killers have. He's the only one to have unlimited power and speed.
If he's the "mOsT bAlAnCeD kIlLeR" then something is amiss because no other killers have been made like him and they treated Leatherface's chainsaw completely different.
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If you wanna not get insta downed by Billy play smart and get off that gen for 10 seconds to get to a very close by loop when you hear his chainsaw, just in case he comes to you (do this especially after he hooks someone cuz BBQ) and if he comes, loop that loop until he gets too close then slam that pallet down. He can't get you with his chainsaw unless he mind games you (which takes skill) or you don't hug the walls while looping and he's good at curving. If he breaks the pallet with his chainsaw you can get to another loop easily as long as you didn't wait at the pallet when he was readying his chainsaw to break it.
If he chases you down with his chainsaw after breaking the pallet don't run straight forward like an idiot.
Remember survivors, a good Billy will always want the chainsaw over the M1 so he will respect pallets like crazy. After he respects the pallet like 2 times after looping he's most likely not respect it next loop so throw it down.
Really easy to counter in my opinion
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Billy is the gold standard of a Killer ... he requires skill and also skill to play against ...so instead of nerfing all the viable red rank killers so you will only play against even less killer how about buff weaker killers so we have more variety...
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Why am I not surprised this is a thread? I'm going to go on a wild guess here and infer that you're also a survivor main. Yes, Billy is strong. So what? What would you suggest they do, implement Speed Limiter into his base kit? Give a 30 sec CD on his chainsaw? When will people stop complaining about X killer being strong just because they're strong. I swear, if billy gets nerfed then it's just going to be a matter of time until people start asking for other lowtier killers to get nerfed. Billy is mildly hard to learn as the controls while chainsaw dashing are much different than those of normally walking. Not every player can pick up billy and nail every chainsaw and all that, but almost anyone can pick up a character like doc or pig and play them at least moderately well. Even if you want to say that he isnt difficult, so what? "Oh no, theres a killer that helps new players get into the game and want to play killer since its actually the power role for once". Good, all the killers left with ruin nerf so we need more (at least that's my guess since survivor queues take 6 mins). And he can play around BT? I mean, I've never experienced a billy breaking chase, ignoring gens, and killing their pressure just to keep one person on the hook. Even if a billy was dumb enough to do this, almost every survivor runs DS anyways, so you're fine.
If you dont like crack bill, though, I'd completely agree with you. Crack billy is broken.
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I expect to see you in these threads once Billy gets reworked and balancing is started. Also, the videos you posted were 4man with comms who gen rushed; those games lasted around 5 minutes. You are telling me that is fun on either side if the game is over that fast? There's something easy to bet on. For the record, Nurse did need a rework and Spirit never did, in my opinion. I have the utmost respect against Spirit players and RIP to ruin; I thought it should have been implemented in the game permanently before the rework. Your narrow opinions and your cheap internet words are shallow and pedantic, and don't contribute to the conversation anymore. Until then, I hope to see you in the fog.
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I'm saying that Billy is strong, and that's fine, BUT he shouldn't be top 3 for how easy he is to play.
How would I change him? Gut insta-saw. Buff every other killer instead. Make those who have non-instant down powers who are difficult to play very strong.
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Honestly i don't think Hillbilly is that strong. He is no where near OP and i don't even understand why people want him changed. As long as you are good at looping he will just play like a mouse 1 killer. Also you were like " Not every Survivor is a running god with map knowledge over every variation of the maps" yeah that is true but those people are normally low ranks and low ranked people will play against low ranked killers which means the killer won't be that great either so it balances it out. Every killer needs to have their thing. Map mobility, chase potential, and information. However each killer cannot have the best of everything so they even it out. Doc as decent chase potential, no mobility, and good information. While Nurse has Great chase potential, good mobility, and no information. Billy has bad chase potential, Amazing mobility, and no information. I think this is fine, mobility should be his strong point since he isnt good at anything else.
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smh.
You know all killers are weak at high ranks when Hillbilly is the target for nerfs. What an embarrassing thread.
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Ffs. You have Spirit and Nurse at least, and I am not calling for nerfs.
Learn to read.
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Only really works when he's not crack billy or insta saw billy.
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I did stop reading because.
1.) Hillbilly has not been the spotlight... as you can see we have an updated Doctor this past midchapter. Just this piece information makes you and your thread look like a "hit attempt" towards Billy... theres no uproar towards Billy, especially when theres more of an uproar towards gens since this midchapter patch..
2.) Advice against Billy...... stay close to windows and pallets.... learn the tiles.... force the M1.......... EZ............ also if you got out of position you don't have SB, you deserve to be punished.
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You already got them nerfed. Nurse is in a wheelchair now.
Time to make Hillbilly unfun now while survivors have fun. Not exactly what the game needs, a game starving for killers at high ranks.
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Forever until you like it.
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When I posted it, he was. And as I have stated in (at time of post) both of The [Killer] Problem series, is that this is just the problem, as I perceive it. This thread has just resurfaced about 2 days ago, and it's annoying for me.
As for your counter point of stick near walls and vaults, I already said that you can't always. There are Hillbillies who will literally walk for long enough to chainsaw you regardless. There are maps where you won't be near anything except two large trees and a rock. Or a chest-high wall. What about those moments?
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Amazing how good players never seem to have problems dying to Billies. It's almost like they understand how zoning works or utilize their map knowledge so that they aren't caught in a dead zone.
Billy is almost entirely about having to learn how to play against him, because he has a different dynamic to him than most other killers.
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Are you denying he has a cool down and charge time? (spoiler - he has both of those).
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An animation is not a cooldown. And the charge time can be hovered, unlike Freddy, Doctor, Pig or Plague. Once you let go, it's done. No holding charge, no nothing.
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Most players go down to Billy.
Heres how the game normally goes...
- Chainsaw revs
- Lands on a survivor within 10-15 seconds
- Swings the chainsaw a few times until the survivor is down (can keep doing this due to only a minor cooldown on his chainsaw
- Hooks survivor then zooms to the next
- Hooks them, rushes back to hook as the other survivor is being unhooked
You can say they’re bad survivors but this happens almost every game. So its not just bad surviors, your typical everyday survivors fall victim to Hillbilly.
Sure a 5000 hour streamer will make an average Billy look weak but there’s a huge skill gap there.
The fact is when you get these Billys to chase you most aren’t often very good. But they dont need to be, thats Billy for you.
You need 4 solid survivors against a Hillbilly and unless you’re in a 4 man swf you’re unlikely to get that.
The survivors need to be very good. The Hillbilly only has to be an average player.
Which goes back to what Pigmainclaudette was implying - Hillbilly is too strong for how easy he is to use. A killer that strong should require more skill. As it is now its very easy for an average player to pick Hillbilly and NOED and dominate anyone except a team of survivors with significantly more skill.
I find it interesting that a lot of people find killer too hard and then say Hillbilly is the most balanced killer. What they’re really saying is that they struggle to win with most killers but manage it with Hillbilly. Almost as if Hillbilly is the killer that noobs can pick up and do extremely well with even for an average player.
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If said animation prevents him from doing literally anything else for 3 seconds, yes, it's a cooldown. That's literally how cooldowns in video games are defined.
The holding charge you're referring to is called back revving; and can only be done if the survivor is caught out of position. Which is their own fault.
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Did I say that I have a problem with Billies killing me?
I said that some of them abuse the power of their saw.
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It's not always the survivors fault, if it's a map area with zero cover. If I only have generators in the near open, with small rocks and trees to cover me, no wall, no gyms, no nothing, then it's hardly my fault for trying to do the objective since there is nowhere to go since they are the only spawns for generators.
And personally, I disagree that a 3 second animation warrants a "cooldown" on Hillbilly's chainsaw, since it does so much for him.
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No, it absolutely is. A generator, aside from like, cornfield maps (most survivor sided maps, btw), is almost always next to an object that you can use to force a Hillbilly to M1. Even the most killer sided maps have these obstacles; and yes, the 3 second animation is a cooldown. The devs call it a cooldown, therefore it is. Whether your agree or not. It is a cooldown. That's not even counting the charge time of the chainsaw, either. Maps are not designed to be safe 100% of the time. Survivors are meant to be in danger. A good survivor goes down to an M1 from a Billy more than they do a chainsaw.
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Billy was ok unil devs nerfed top tier killers. Isnt queue time long enough for survivors now?
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So, you're telling me that in the middle of a Macmillain Estate map, with only small trees and a large rock nearby a generator, that I'm a bad survivor because Hillbilly decided to take a 2 minute stroll with a chainsaw around the rock, my largest piece of cover, while my useless random teammates do nothing?
If I try to go for a building, he gets me. There is no pallet. There is no nearby vault. It's the most dangerous generator, yes, but it's the only one near me. The other one is on a hill, and I have no clue where the other one is. I'm running Sprint Burst on this character, so the hill is very unsafe.
So, in this situation, I'm just meant to bend over, and take it like a champ, huh?
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If you are on macmillan, next to a tree, and can't force him to either hit the tree or M1, you need to work on your survivor skills. Stop looking at pallets or windows as your only line of defense against Billy.
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So, first people just tell me to use walls and pallets to deal with him, then say that I shouldn't use them.
You see my frustration here? I say in my opening that this is just a general overview of a symptomatic problem, say that it isn't always possible to play optimally, and I get nothing but "You're wrong! Play better!" in a thread about problematic design and the beginnings of learnig a character.
This is why I wanted the thread to disappear and why I'm starting to become more hostile towards some people on this thread. Everyone has missed the point. Nobody sees what I do. Maybe in the rest of The [Killer] Problem series, people will understand.
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I said objects. Not specifically walls and pallet.
Trees are objects. Rocks. Hay bales. Tractors. Cranes. Junk piles. Generators. Lockers; EVEN free standing hooks in the middle of nowhere to an extent. These are all objects in addition to walls and pallets.
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Hillbilly is fine guys stop complain over a balanced killer. Like i've said again and again and will say it again. Only insta-saw need to be changed and billy have too much counter. flickbilly is easy to counter that's require a lot of skill from killer side but i guess survivor want to nerf it because well, i want loop around of pallet gameplay.
Killer get nerfed no matter how much effort and skill they put but, survivor get everything nerfed because there are the no skill side of the game. Even ruin was nerfed because the skill check was hard lul. BHVR will listen to them because there are the major community.
Survivor want a win without effort while killer keep trying more and more. Nurse nerf and ruin nerf is the exemple of this. So stop saying killer is tryharding when you make them tryhard even more.
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You can really tell you have no actual clue as to what Billy as a killer is about. You don't need to be a ######### 5000 hour player to loop an average or even competent Billy player. You yourself need to understand how to play around his saw. It's as simple as understanding curve points and knowing his charge times and distances between you and pallets or when or when not to throw a pallet. This, like I said will come with experience from playing against him. It isn't like Spirit where it was entirely guessing. He has plenty of counter play, and when you use it correctly, you will do very well against Billies.
"I find it interesting that a lot of people find killer too hard and then say Hillbilly is the most balanced killer. What they’re really saying is that they struggle to win with most killers but manage it with Hillbilly"
The reason why about 99% of the community find him balanced is because the counter play is absurdly obvious. The only thing I see here is someone who clearly doesn't understand how to play against Billy, not so much killers struggle to win without him. I personally have like 1K hours alone put into Billy. I don't struggle whatsoever without him. In fact, some times I do better without him because I'm so focused on trying to curve at some loops that I don't really realize how much time I waste.
Because of my experience with Billy, I know what to expect when I face him. I hardly go down to saws because I understand how he works.
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So you're telling me players using his power too much are abusing it? How does this even remotely make any sense? His power is meant to be a chase tool and a map pressure tool.
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