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The problem with this suggestion
Too many people are calling for DS to deactivate when another survivor is hooked. This would enable tunneling and make the perk useless.
Survivor gets unhooked, killer downs them, killer downs unhooker, unhooker gets hooked, unhooked gets hooked aka tunneled.
Comments
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This is what I said. Thank You. Someone get it.
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Yeah, deactivating upon an action like starting a hook save or working on a gen would be better. If they're performing an action like that, the killer isn't tunneling them.
15 -
"B-But I still get hit with DS after hooking 2 people omg"
So you're complaining about... dominating the game?
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Once killer focus on someone else a.k.a unhooker its not tunneling.
If killer is still able to catch even the unhooked one after downing unhooker, its unhooked one mistake, he has enough time to run away.
It is just not tunneling anymore.
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The killer can instantly down the unhooker if they are close enough when the unhook happens if I'm not mistaken. And that's just while healthy.
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We're talking about the guy getting unhooked getting immediately downed and then the unhooker gets hooked first. Then the guy who originally went down gets hooked again while he was tunneled. No DS.
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How? He needs two hits to down the unhooker..two hits are like tens meters of chase..unhooked one should already be far away.
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What stops the unhooked from getting healed by someone else while the other person is being chased, downed, and hooked?
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Nothing stops it, but nothing guaranties it. DS is an insurance policy against your own teammates more than the killer lmao
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If unhooker gets downed right away there is someting done wrong.
That might only happen with chainsaw guys or some addons on others.
This is not tunneling, but camping and its another story.
In these cases i would recomend Kindred.
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BT, lockers, Unbreakable, and literally just going for a safe unhook instead of hook bombing counters that.
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They got tunneled off hook. It was a tunnel. They deserve to use their DS.
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Is this anti tunneling or anti "dominating" perk? Make up your mind. You cant have a perk that will solve all your problems with toxic killers.
2 -
Not guaranteed.
A Hag with Make your Choice can do that. Or a Hillbilly, TIer 3 Myers, Bubba (even if you should not unhook in front of a Bubba anyway).
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I mean it doesn't solve all my problems if they just wait a minute or restrict their greed.
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Even then killer has to down unhooker, then hook him and then he can start chase.
It is like 10 second if done properly.
Don't know how you but i can run pretty good distance during this time.
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This can happen only in few situations:
- Unhooked is dumb and runs into the killer
- Unhooked is dumb and steps into Trap
- Unhooked is dumb and heals under hook
- Unhooked is dumb and does gens next to the hook
- Unhooked is dumb and bodyblocks you to save another survivior
In all cases above, reason why it happens is because:
- A) Unhooked is dumb
- B) Unhooked has protection of DS so he can act dumb
To be completely fair there is one more reason
- KILLER IS CAMPING
Unfortunately DS is not anti camper perk, BUT I FULLY AGREE THAT CAMPING NEEDS TO BE PUNISHED, OR AT LEAST THE CAMPED SURVIVIOR NEEDS TO BE RECOMPENSATED FOR IT
2 -
Except that's not necessarily dominating the game. Sometimes the killer just gets lucky and suddenly gets to build some momentum. And while you're getting DS'd, those other two survivors are being saved. In that moment, the killer loses all their momentum. They're back to having no one on the hook.
Deactivating after one other survivor has been hooked could be abused, but deactivating after two other survivors have been hooked... that would be reasonable.
But if nothing else it should deactivate upon the survivor starting an action like repairing gens or going for a hook save. A killer shouldn't be DS'd when they grab a survivor making a hook save. If that survivor with DS is healthy when they decide to make a save in the killer's face, there's no way for anyone other than a one-hit-down killer to stop them.
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Yes those changes would be ideal
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How can you possibly call it a tunnel if killer goes after someone else?
What's your tunnel defining at ?
3 -
Slugging tho. Even more momentum.
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Immediately hooking a survivor who has been unhooked, making no attempt at juggling pressure.
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I'd say then maybe such a change can encourage teammates into playing a little better as opposed to just assuming that a safety net can just easily take care of things.
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Have you been in solo queue? It's all about hook bombing to get those limited altruism points and nothing else.
I don't have to bring DS when I SWF because I know my friends are competent.
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Or maybe such a change would allow killers to tunnel with the only anti-tunneling perk in the game not being able to stop it?
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Yeah, if I've hooked two other people, it's pretty reasonable to think 60 seconds have passed. Nothing like looking back later and finding out that you got DS'd at 59 seconds. It's not like I don't usually slug if the recently unhooked comes running at me, but after hooking two other survivors you don't even necessarily remember they were hooked.
It's not like there's some timer on each survivor showing how many seconds have passed since they were unhooked. Survivors get nice little timers showing them when Haunted Ground or MYC or Ghostface's One-Hit-Down are up. Killers don't get that. Unless we've got four stopwatches in front of us, we're kind of guessing.
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How are you tunneling them if you're busy hooking someone else.
Not to mention if you down them both and immediately pick them up, you still have time for DS to happen.
2 -
just like if a killer doesnt pressure the survivors working on the last gen and a survivor comes off the hook fully healed by adren it's the survivors fault for making a mistake . the unhooked went for a risky unhook without borrowed time and should be penalized for it .
killers get penalized for messing up a lot (which is fine imo) for example , nurse gets penalized for a bad blink .
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Make your choice is a built in timer if you need it.
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Yeah, maybe 1 hook is not enough, but what about 1 hook/down = -30 seconds? This would mean either 2 hooks/downs or 1 and 30 seconds for another save.
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Sounds like the changes needed go beyond DS, then.
Again, what stops the unhooked from being healed in the meantime?
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Maybe they don't have 30 seconds to sit around recovering.
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Not for each individual survivor it doesn't. And it has a cooldown.
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I mean I don't think anything can be changed that would do a better job than what DS is doing right now.
Unhooked being healed is if someone decides to show up. Lots of immersed solo survs will just not do it.
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I mean is it that much to ask for people to track who gets unhooked? I don't have a problem with it. Only time I'll take a DS is when I'm winning the game and want more points.
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It doesn't take 30 seconds for someone to heal you.
That sounds like a competency problem more than a game balance problem.
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You can't just make other people competent.
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I don't disagree with that, but IMO it isn't an excuse to not go with the change to DS that OP is discussing.
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If that change goes through, I'd literally only be able to enjoy matches in SWF. I'd just get farmed into oblivion in solo queue, and believe it or not, it's not that fun.
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Killers are trying to micromanage a lot. They're like the Dungeon Keepers of this game. Pressuring gens. Juggling four survivors. Nurse having to keep an eye on her power bar in the middle of a chase. Myers trying to stalk and chase and not pop EW3 too early. Yeah, killers have a lot on their plate. Gets even worse when there are survivors dressed similarly.
It's not like survivors even pay attention to who's dead on hook half the time. When I play survivor, I can keep track of who's been hooked and who's DoH usually because in general I have to keep track of a lot less stuff than when I play killer. As killer, I try, but it's not always possible, and when there's a lot going on (like hooking 2 other survivors) then yeah, I'm not going to be counting 60 seconds off in my head.
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You don't really have to count to 60. Just if you down someone again in quick succession, it would benefit you to wait a bit. Check on your hooked survs or something so at least all your pressure isn't lost.
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It's better to remove the chance for tunneling than the chance for abuse. Besides, there are other changes to DS that can be made to prevent tunneling AND abuse.
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It happended when I was a leatherface, I don't camp, was following a Nea and she performed a safe unhook to a David (without BT and David without DS) and with the chainsaw I downed them both and hooked the Nea first. There were two times that happended for the David, first a Nea and Bill did the same to that David. I let him go in the second hook because it wasn't his fault and I felt bad for him.
Post edited by Saitamfed on0 -
Yes survivors underestimate the chainsaw boys all too often
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I mean, what am I supposed to say? I'll still play solo Survivor (even though I am trash). I don't even use DS currently.
If the situation is such that we can't change a perk to stop abuse because of tunneling, then that sounds like a sign of a fundamental problem in not just game balance, but game design overall.
Can't say I agree on the grounds that it ain't tunneling in my book if the Killer is going after the unhooker and giving the unhooked a decent chance to be healed.
What suggestions do you propose to prevent abuse but preserve anti-tunneling?
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Deactivate if the survivor heals, repairs, or unhooks. Seems good enough.
Post edited by Waffleyumboy on2 -
That means the Survivor is not allowed to do anything meaningful except for act as bait/a meat shield for a solid minute. All that would really do in my eyes is encourage the abuse.
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What do you mean? It means the survivor either has invincibility or is doing meaningful objectives.
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And if the Survivor wants to actually make use of the invincibility, they can't work on gens (or heal). Where does that leave the Survivor in question? Actively forcing it. Hence encouraging the abuse.
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Or the survivor can get back to doing gens like normal? If the survivor tries to bait the killer into tunneling the killer can ignore them because they're useless to their team.
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