NOED is perfectly balanced. (not clickbait)
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Alright but like I said if all 4 survivors are optimal then what stops them all from running the strong loops? Wretched Shop, Iron works, Disturb ward are all strong loops survivors can easily make it to, especially if they get injured and the small speed burst.
Spirit Fury can be easily countered by I don't know... dropping the pallet early and not being so greedy at loops?
Bamboozle isn't even that good and if a structure like Wretched Shop and Disturb ward has multiple windows which they do then that perk is completely useless. I hardly ever see killers running that perk and the last time someone did was when they played Vault master Myers which was 3 months ago approximately.
If you're going to call killers noobs for running crutch perks then I'm sorry but when 4 survivors can all stack second chance perks then they are equally as bad.
Lastly I never mentioned tunneling so I have no clue to why you brought it up. For me personally I chase for around 25 seconds and if nothing comes out of it such as breaking a few pallets or injuring them then I drop the chase. Even destroying a few pallets is good enough for me because I can chase a new survivors with pallets gone too.
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NOED is the perfect example of how a perk shouldnt work. Doing nothing for it to get a game changer. All killers would cry a river if survivors would have anything similar, but because its a killer thing its all fine. Double standards like always.
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They DO have a lot of things similar, Sprint Burst is a free sprint for doing nothing and it's a game changer for a wraith vs 4 sprint bursts. Balanced Landing is a reward for finding a hill. Lithe a reward for finding a window. Dead Hard? A complete game changer, the killer should have already downed you but you pressed E to extend the chase and help your teammates finish the gens they otherwise wouldn't. A lot of survivor perks are game changers. Don't get me started on 4 adrenalines.
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DS requires a survivor to fail at stealth, lose the chase (or get grabbed), and get hooked in order to activate, as it activates upon unhook.
You can't ever activate DS through godly/perfect play, but strangely, it can guarantee escapes and create unwinnable scenarios for the killer.
Imagine.
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I wondered when the first one will call that nonsense again. DS only exists to compensate for cheap plays of killers. NOED doesnt do anything like that, cause survivors do not have the possibility to play cheap.
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"DS only exists to compensate for cheap plays" he said, jumping inside and outside of the locker repeatedly.
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You have a very strange way to define game changer. The game is designed for exhaustion perks. And Adrenalin already has the way of work for reward or do you thing 5gens pop up with no effort?
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Said the one with the obvious tunnel vision. Stop crying for your scummy gameplay.
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And you can't counter spirit fury if it is used correctly, building it up on one person and then swapping targets and hitting another person with it.
Alright, then the killer is playing strategically, what's the problem? They are thinking ahead of the game in making Spirit Fury work but once survivors catch on it's not necessarily hard to counter. Sure it will definitely work when the survivor doesn't expect it but if the killer uses that tactic on them once and they keep falling for it then it's the survivors being stupid and not the killer.
That's the same with other perks too, like if I'm hit with a quick and quiet and not expecting it then I might lose the survivor for a few seconds and by the time when I noticed what has happened they would have made distance but once they hit me with it then I will expect it later on.
Bamboozle is the best killer perk in the game next to whispers and corrupt intervention. Any M1 killer can crutch on it hard. It shuts down almost every loop in the game if you use it well (aka vault the jungle gym window).
I wont deny that Bamboozle is extremely good at blocking off Jungle Gyms and the only counter is to move on, which most of the time allows the killer to get a hit. It's powerful at jungle gyms but once it gets to structural loops then it's literally pointless. It's also pointless if jungle gyms are connected (looking at you Ormond) or if you get bad map RNG because it blocks only one window at a time, which if it blocks more then it will be too powerful. Or something else I've seen more, jungle gym next to shack, loop shack -> window blocked -> loop jungle gym -> window blocks -> loop shack. Bloodlust will kick in but still Bamboozle didn't really help much there.
Honestly I wont argue about the tier of Bamboozle because everyone has varying opinions on their favorite perk. If you love that perk then that's fine by me but in my opinion it's nowhere near as powerful to make it worthwhile using a whole lot. But then again everyone has different opinions on what perks are strong for them so I wont argue about it.
If it is a SWF running 4x second chance perks, sure, they are bad. But solo Q? Nah, you can't even rely on your team to save you or not kill themselves on their first hook. Everything is fair game for solo Q survivors.
Well at least you're not in-denial about survivors being bad if they stack on a bunch of second chance perks so I appreciate you for that. But you still need to realize that it's a 1v4 the killer is supposed to be stronger. In regards to perks it's 4 perks vs 16 perks so it would make sense. Although I hate using videos as an example, SpaceCoconut made a video on "why survivor is easy mode" and the main point that sticks out is that the time pressure is on the survivors the survivor control the flow of the game. If they stick onto gens they will most likely win the game because the killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. If the survivors spread out on gens on completely different sides of the map then it's game over but that does require competent team mates.
The logic that I don't understand is it's fine for solos to run crutch perks but not killers. It's a team based game so if you team plays poorly then why does that entitle people to run crutches but still call the killer bad for running them? I understand the frustrations of solo, trust me I do, but I don't like the logic of "Solos can run as many crutches as they want but killers are not allowed to!!!". Killers with no mobility are already at a disadvantage on a LOT of maps so why can't they also run crutch perks?
In comparison to you comparing SWF to solo:
If Billy runs crutches then he's bad but it's fine for clown to because you can't rely on your power alone with no mobility to get kills before 3 gens pop in a single chase. Everything is fair game for clown.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's not fair to say one side can run crutches but the other side is terrible and relies on them to win.
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"Said the one with the obvious tunnel vision. Stop crying for your scummy gameplay." he said, as he ran directly to the hooked survivor in full view of the killer. While this would usually be a move too dangerous to employ, he had an ace up his sleeve; Borrowed Time, a perk which gives players 15 seconds of damage immunity, and with no risk.
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Im out of this. You obviously do not understand anything about those perks and how to handle them. You just wanna rant without any sense for gameplay just being biased in your obsessed role. I doubt you would even want to understand anything.
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Which one of us was asking for NOED to be nerfed? You know, that one perk that can be completely disabled before it even has a chance to take effect?
No, no, you're right, I can't handle perks.
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I'm going to quote a guy who made a comment about Adrenaline:
You don't make any risky or special plays for Adrenaline, you just play the game normally and do your normal objective. Would it be fair if the killer gets 6 hooks then a random survivor dies after the 5th gen simply by using a perk? If not then why? Adrenaline literally rewards you for playing your objective so why couldn't a killer perk not do the same?
In my opinion Adrenaline does way too much for survivors just by playing normally:
- Free heal
- Free sprint burst
- Many people don't notice this but Sprint Burst is a 3 second sprint and Adrenaline is a 5 second sprint that's 2 seconds of extra movement speed, which may not seem like a lot but it is quite a bit.
- Bypasses exhaustion
- Wakes you up (which was more detrimental to old Freddy to be fair)
If the killer plays well and slugs 2 or more people and someone completes the 5th gen, that's ALL of the killers pressure just gone for playing normally. Adrenaline doesn't reward JUST the survivors for completing their objective, what about the Meg heads that just chase the killer all game body blocking, t-bagging, spam vaulting and just generally trying to bully? What about when the killer closes the hatch? What about when you win a chase and during your weapon wipe animation Adrenaline just picks them up negating that entire chase? In all of those situations minus the meg head one the survivor has failed but Adrenaline saved them.
Don't get me wrong I can see your point of view entirely but the killer's objective is to kill. They haven't failed anything until the survivors leave through the exit gates. If the killer has already lost then why does it not just automatically send you to the tally screen? The match is still on-going and the killer definitely can change the game around.
I wont deny that NOED is a game changer at all because it can be. Sure if the survivors are smart then they wont feed the killer but against below average survivors it can change the entire game. But so does Adrenaline, can't tell you how many times that ONE single perk has saved me. The biggest power is the full heal after getting unhooked, practically handing you the escape on a silver platter.
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I love how you are taking my reply completely out of context too, I said the killer is playing strategically by switching targets with Spirit Fury onto an clueless survivor, not once did I say using NOED was strategic. If you want to have proper discussions then read replies and do not take them out of context otherwise it makes you either look extremely ignorant or biased. Now lets move onto my main reply to you.
The best counter is to cleanse the totem. Most killers with NOED just camp the survivor on the hook to secure a kill, what's stopping you from roaming around the map cleansing the totem and then saving? I usually play in a 3 man SWF group when I do play survivor and if NOED is active and one of us gets hooked then first we get 2 people on gates and before going for the save look for NOED. If the person dies due to us not finding it in time then we cut our losses and leave, making the killer end up with 1 kill or 2 at the very most. I've even done this in a 2 man with 2 randoms and it works.
I've never seen a killer AFK all game just so they can NOED people unless they are intentionally depipping or just wanting to trigger people. At that point at least 3 of you can escape and it's up the the discretion of the survivors to leave, look for the totem or to just feed the killer.
When I USED to use NOED back in 2018, it usually only got me 1 or 2 kills at the very most before it got cleansed so unless survivors have just gotten lazy over the years or just became more potato feeding themselves to the killer then I have no clue about the amount of complaints.
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That's why I wish weakish perks like Small Game had a totem counter or at least a way for survivors to know how many totems are remaining. The devs really need to bridge the gap between solos and SWFs because solos get hit hard and there is no denying that.
There are few perks that give rewards that people didn't earn, here are a few:
- Dead hard: Yes it's garbage when used to avoid a hit but using it for distance is the huge strength of this perk. Not going to make it to a pallet or window? Press E boom you've not made it to a loop you wouldn't have gotten to and depending on the strength of the loop or safety of the pallet, extend the chase way longer than it should be
- Adrenaline: Literally no risky or special plays required. Do your objective as normal and get a free insta heal, a 5 second sprint burst which is 2 seconds more than the perk sprint burst, denying the killer of a potential kill and removing all of their pressure entirely.
- NOED: Killer equips a perk which has no requirements but survivors cleansing totems, giving him Bloodlust permanently and insta downing capabilities
- Fire up: Literally giving the killer more strength as the game progresses with no requirements for the the killer to do anything.
Do any of these deserve nerfs? Probably not but they are all perks in the game that gives you a reward for doing nothing.
Could I also bring up how contradicting you are (if that is the right word)? I quote this from you:
With BT you are giving up a valuable perk slot in order to save your team from campers, it should be really strong. Otherwise, I could have a selfish perk in it's place.
With NOED equipped the killer is handicapped running on 3 perks for the entire game, giving up a valuable perk slot in order to help them in the end game. Shouldn't that be really strong because like BT they are giving up a valuable perk slot which might not even come into play?
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Seriously do you even read my replies? I said those perks don't need nerfs but I used Fire Up as an example because it requires no input for the killer to gain rewards. Fire Up is weak and needs buffs but I used it as an example to counter your point about NOED being busted because it requires no skill. I'm trying to open your eyes by saying Fire Up requires no input so is that busted? Im not going to bother to discuss with someone who half arses their reply without even thoroughly reading through my own.
Dead hard has plenty of counters, the main one being assuming that every survivor has it until you know they don't. If a survivor is staring behind them while you are chasing them, they probably have dead hard. It's about as simple as that. Dead hard for distance is mediocre. You get way more distance with sprint burst or lithe.
Like I said using DH to avoid a hit is garbage so I have no clue why you are bringing up that counter. Yes it's super easy to counter DH when used to avoid a hit there is no denying that and if people say it's overpowered due to that alone then they are just not as good as they think they are. Meanwhile DH for distance has literally no counter minus a few killer's power like Plague's red vomit or if timed correctly then the Hatchet. Sprint burst you can't choose to activate it whenever you want unless you 99% it and Lithe requires you to get to a window. Yes they make more distance than DH but what if you're injured? You will get downed before they go into effect, DH for distance literally makes you completely safe.
Adrenaline is good, but as a solo Q, you will not be making it to endgame in a lot of cases. It is even rarer you will make it to endgame and having the killer chasing you, which is the only place it really shines. I don't use it because of that. And even then, it will only get you to the next safe loop. You still have to get all the way to exit gate, and with NOED? You won't.
I see you bringing solo queue into this a lot and yes it's much harder to play survivor solo but it's still quite easy to play as long as you don't have potatos on your team. Throughout all of my Rift challenges, I just watched a movie on my second monitor while playing solo survivor and I could still escape with a breeze. You're making it out like solo survivors escape in like 1/20 matches which if they do then maybe they are not as good as they think they are?
The NOED speed boost is strong and you're not likely to make it to an exit gate but the killer can only chase 1 person at a time. What is stopping the other survivors from cleansing the totem? At that point it's the stupidity of the survivors getting the team killed and not the perk itself.
The killer playing with 3 perks all game is irrelevant with NOED, because you can seriously crutch on it for extra kills. You can facecamp 1 person the entire game and still 3k or 4k purely because of NOED, it is that powerful. It makes me sad that the dev's think it is OK in a competitive environment. But I guess that's why all the other super overpowered items in the game exist, because this is a casual game and they don't care about balance.
How is it different from a strong survivor perk? I can't count how many times we got a 4 man escape because one person rescues the survivor from the hook activating BT and then the BT user just bodyblocks the rescuer because they can afford to practically making the killer helpless. Even injuring the unhooker is not enough because the BT user can tank a hit and then with another stacked second chance perk get out of jail for free again.
If that's not powerful guaranteeing an escape then how is guaranteeing a kill too powerful? Of course this wont work if you're on the completely opposite side of the map but most of the time survivors will try and get hooked near an exit gate just for this to work. Even still with the wipe animation and the sprint burst from getting injured you can still probably make it to the gate.
If the killer facecamps all game and ends up with a 4k due to NOED then the survivors are completely stupid and didn't cut their losses and instead fed the killer. That's on the survivors behalf and not a devs issue. That's like myself complaining about getting hit with DS after tunneling, that is MY fault and not the devs fault for making an OP perk.
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I agree, an optimal survivor team will usually roll the killer. But in many cases, your team is going to get stomped and there is little or nothing you can do about it. That's why I don't bring adrenaline. If the killer identifies you as a strong looper, they will leave you for last.
Fair enough but like I said the devs really need to bridge the gap. To you I probably sound like a biased killer main but I do play my fair share of survivor too and due to being in the UK quite a few of my friends are not online who are based in the US so I do play a lot of solo survivor. I do completely understand the frustrations they go through but that's due to the team being bad and not NOED being OP.
DH for distance is garbage. Lithe is much more flexible, won't leave you exhausted on the ground (like dedicated dead hards so often do), and you get like 5x the distance of dead hard. Sprint burst is significantly more powerful than both, and with fixated the penalty of having to walk around all the time to save it is negated.
If you get exhausted then you didn't use DH for distance correctly or you was way too late in activating the perk meaning that you mainly used it to avoid a hit, which is indeed garbage. I use DH myself and I have many clips of myself using it to avoid a hit due to no structures being nearby and getting downed while exhausted. But do you know what? I used the perk wrong and that was my fault so I'm not going to call the perk weak.
Lithe and SB does get you way more distance but if you're injured NEAR a window you will still go down. With DH for distance, you will make it to that loop so that's why it's powerful. DH definitely doesn't need a nerf but it is a strong perk.
Dead hard will not save you from the 1 shot killers, and there are plenty of those to go around.
You are correct and that's why I don't agree with nerfing it because it's way too situational. Against 1 hit killers SB or Lithe are definitely stronger.
And can you really blame the survivors for trying to save their team? In a lot of cases, I am sad a garbage killer is even getting a single kill because of NOED, and I want to save them. But there will be almost nothing I can do.
I mean can you blame the killer for trying to secure at least one kill? Honestly with the speed the gens can be completed it I can't blame them entirely. The apply pressure non-sense doesn't work on low mobility killers on large maps when survivors spread apart. I know you said against optimal survivors the killer will get rolled but this is why killers run NOED. It's not that they can't get hooks but instead it's just the game MIGHT be heavily stacked against them.
It's like BT, you run it to stop killers from camping because it's unfun or unfair and gives them a chance. NOED is an insurance against bad game design and until problematic maps are reworked I can't really blame them for using it. Killers want to have a fun game but there is nothing they can do when they are up against 4 toolboxes on large maps.
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Actually, Iron Will currently counters Stridor.
The math is no longer
- (100% x 1.5) - 100% = 50%
It's
- (100% - 100%) x 1.5 = 0%
And the best part is, we don't know if this is a bug or intentional.
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Since the introduction of the EGC, Adrenaline also works if the hatch is closed, which is another failure state for survivors.
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I couldn't believe when everyone knows where the totem spawn locations are that you only have to clean 1 totem if NOED is actived!
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I can see why it feels like bs but noed is still counterable. Even if there're bs like moments its still the survivors responsibility to cleanse the totems.
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You can pretty much tell which killers run noed by how well they play. If a killer barely gets any hooks during the match before all gens are finished 9 times out of 10 they are running NOED. You can argue whether its balanced or not, but it's just a fact that bad killers tend to use it as a crutch for their poor play.
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Noed is actually perfect to use at the moment, since gens go by insanely fast.
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