Killer nerfs acctualy hurt the survivor experience (not click bait)
Ok so this is not supposed to sound like a complain thread or "ruin nerf bad" thing.
Its rather about this......
This are some stats i made in the last week of every killer match i played. (i play survivor with a friend mostly).
I was rank 1 for most of the matches (got some deranks for survivor dc's). I mostly played doc but i also played 2 matches oni today because i wanted some variety. (im going to track a full 100 matches)
Like u can see most of my matches are 4k's and the match time average is 10:20. Looks kinda not right with all the "gen rush discussions" right?
But now take a look at the "situation" and "potato" (yes i named it like that) stats.
This clearly shows what the problem atm is and how the stats the devs give always show such high kill rates. Potatos EVERYWHERE.
The main reason i made this was because i wanted to look at standart rank 1 matches without me and my friend in it. We are both pretty good survivor (if i can say so) and mostly carry our team mates and sometimes die because of them (of course we also die because of our mistakes or because we troll) but motsly we feel like we only lose because we get team mats that cant play the game.
Some discussions on here also show that many players are unhappy with their team mates.
Ok so now to the title.......
The reason i think that the killer nerfs (escpecialy ruin) acctualy hurts the survivors more than the killers.
The change forces u to either play top tier killers or play like a dick with the m1 killers but what it also does is making it easier ("less frustrting") for new players (thats also what the devs intended) or noobs.
What this leads to: Since its now easier than ever to get a rank up and nearly impossible to be derankd as survivors the red ranks get flodded with players that clearly dont belong there. The "potatos".
Conclusion: Good killer players will just use top tiers and stomp every surivor like i did in this "test" except i didnt even need a top tier. (the reason for this is that i dont play "fair". i build 3 gens, slug, and sometimes proxie camp if i see my victory at risk.)
Ruin was basicaly a noob filter for high ranks since noobs would get stomped which made it harder for them to get in the red ranks (still easy).
And that leads to the stats i recorded. I stomp noobs that cant play because ranking is trash.........but wait..........
even though most of my matches are 4k's even on bad maps like Thompson House.........just look at the "gens done".
Most matches 3 or 4 gens were done (the 0 gen matches screw over the "average count") even though most of my chases end in about 20 seconds. And most of the time they were done in the first few minutes of the matches.....after that they mostly dont manage to get the fith done because the get steam rolled by than.
Shouldnt be like that right?. I totaly dominate most of them and still lose 80% of the objective cause they can hold m1.
I also have mande survivor stats (2man swf) which shows exsactly this but this time with 2 good players and mostly (not always) 2 potatos. And i can say .....well just look at it yourself.......
Mostly 4 escaps........surprised? im not. Q time stat is funny too lol. This is just 2 man swf not 4man. But like u see . 2 man is still strong enough to carry most of the potatos to victory
TL:DR: killer nerfs make it easier for potatos or new players to get into red ranks. This screws over the devs stats. It makes player believe that the game is killer sided (which it isnt). It takes the fun away from both killers and survivors. Slaughtering potatos is boring........but neededing to carry them is also kinda bs.
However there is light........maybe. The devs plan an mmr system which will hopefully remove the noobs out of both my survivor and killer matches. But my killer side tells me......i dont want it since i fear it may realy work. The point were i face 4 good players is the point were the match is unwinable without top tier and second chance perks (noed. the only seconds chance killer perk imo.......while survivors have......DS (basicaly god mode for 60 seconds and totasly abused for it by god players), DH( i dont minde it), AD(ad is ok since it rewards for winning)
if u made it till here congrats. i dont know why i wrote this XD.( Im gonna continue both stats till a 100 matches to see if something changes)
leave ur thoughts down below. i like discussions :)
Ps: i dont think mrr will work in this q time simulator
Comments
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I'm pretty sure the ideal amount of gens done is 5, hence more than 1 survivor escaping ideally. Yes ranking system is broke, hence matchmaking and queue times.
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hmm yes. in a balanced match. But i dont think 4 potatos are supossed to do 4 gens against killer 20 times better than them. Would u say 4 rank 20s should get 5 gens done against a rank 1 killer before he kills them? They pretty much all play like rank20s and thats the problem
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Unskilled survivors performing significantly less than ideally seems fine to me(>30% worse). Potato survivors are closer to rank 9-10 in killer equivalent in my experience against red ranks rn. Do you think they should be able to do less gens? How many? .25, .5?
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If the survivors are potatoes and the killer is 20 times better then the survivors wont get those gens done. If they are then perhaps the killer isn’t as good as they think they are.
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would be better if matches like this wouldnt exsist. What i want to say is that in matches like this were the killer is clearly tremendously better than the survivor.......the survivors should not be able to nearly win. Same goes the other way around. A bad killer should never win against 4 good surviors. It works like this in nearly every game except dbd. here are potatos winning against good players because the devs dont know their own game.
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Hmm I have yet to have potatoes beat me but I know I'm slightly better than the average killer due to my tendency towards stronger builds(Basement Trapper, Slugging Billy, Anti-heal GF). I will let you know when I get clapped by potatoes.
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well thats the problem. Its not supposed to be possible but it is. You can see that look ing at my stats. Would i 4k that offen if i was bad? I dont want to pull the "look at xy youtuber card" but the latest video of otzdarva shows exscatly this. He played a nearly pefect game with the longest chase lasting 25 seconds......and still 4 gens done in 4 minutes.
Thats the problem im tring to show. Even if i down someone every 20-30 seconds its still not evenought to win because the hold m1.
Example: Gen is 80 second. 3 gens are also 80 seconds right?
Ok. match starts....i find a survivor 20 seconds. First hit (optimistic) 15 seconds and than if he plays bad he goes down in the next 15. 15+15+20 = 50 seconds. pick up and hook 5-8 seconds.
55 seconds. 1 minute. one important minute because its the beginning of the match.
55 seconds mean thwere are 3 gens on around 80%. which means 60% of survivor objectives is allready done in not even a minute without me being able to do something against it.
If this howerver does not happen because the waste time on chests or totems.....well than i can try to aply pressure. The start of the match ususaly decides if u lose or not. and its in the survivor hands 90%
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Sorry to disappoint, but the start of the match matters little as demonstrated by a bud of mine @NMCKE
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Like u can clearly see. I didnt get "clapped" once. i 4k'd most of them because the made so many mistakes. what im trying to say is that it should not be possible for such bad players to..
- hit rank 1
- get 4 gens done even tough i down someone every 20 seconds.
if u look at my survivor stats. they clearly show what happens if only 2 good player happen to be in a match swf or not. nearly no kills because of the gen rush and loops till infinity
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Potato players skew stats on both sides.
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ok u clearly have no clue what u talk about since thats basicaly common knowledge that the early game is the most important.
Easy to explain.
Early game is were the killer has little to no pressure until he downs someone. This means 3 survivor at the same time do gens (optimaly if they are not potatos) the other gets chased.
depending on how good the survivor is (killer doesnt rly matter if surivor is good enough).
3 gens are done before the killer gets a down.
Early game not improtant??? sure. 60% objcetive gone in 80 seconds if u play a m1 killer against half way decent players.
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I'm not going to bother explaining it. It's common knowledge that gens are more difficult while more survivors are being pressured/there are less gens to spread out on.
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i never denied that. its true. stats are basicaly worthless. escpecialy those not from red ranks.
But like u can see on the stats the devs dropped months ago the kill rate was around 50-70%. Which it probably is. And u know why? because 80% of this games player base (killer and survivor) are so damn bad its out of my mind. Sure in games like cod u have the average potato. but dbd brings it to a new level of how bad player can be.
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So you agree that the game can't be balanced until ranking is fixed?
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Thats completyl wrong.......#########. In the beginning of the map THERE IS NO PRESSURE. The killer only gets pressure as soon as the first survivor gets downd. Also please tell me how killer like clown, pig, doc, michael, etc...... is supposed to apply pressure on temple of purgation LMAO. he takes 40 second to get to the other side of the map HALF A GEN.
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Hm? I mean gens are more important when they are more difficult...also common knowledge.
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Yes. Thats what i think. thanks for finaly understanding it. The problem with that is that dbd is basiclay a slot machine with so many variables. The devs dont even know what a win his. how is the mmr they are making supposed to know it. mrr is gonna make it worse. belive me.
I u dont believe in what i say.. wait till 90% of the players are rank one and u lose every match because the survivors u get are so bad they cant even hold m1.
I literaly get survivor missing snap out of it skill chekcs. THEY ARE GIGANTIC
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I see this thread is getting ambushed by BHVR apologists.
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Mmr can't be worse than the garbage fire we have right now, prove me wrong.
I don't play solo anymore :(
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gens are not difficult. its literaly m1 simulator. Which is why i think the should not make gens take longer. ruin was a band aid fix. I dont want to make survivor even more boring lol. Survivors need a secondary (needed) objective to give more time to the match.
U know somethings wrong when q times longer than match time.
Guess why q is so long? nobody wants to play killer because of how stupid gen time is.
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yup pls send help XD. i dont knwo if they dont want to understand or if they are simply to bad at the damn game. I have over 1.5k hours and my friend has over 3k. i know what i talk about. we nearly never lose as survivor. AS a 2 man swf. like lmao.
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Ok u dont play solo. Why?
I know the answer. red ranks are so much potato it hurts to watch.
am i right???
i think u dont uderstand that im a surivor main XD
i want killer to be strong. u know why.
Its boring if can just run around a pallet 10 minutes without even the chance to go down. BUt more important i finaly want to be able to paly solo without having to carry 3 potatos every time. Most of the solo matche end liike this.
killer tunnels me 4 gens. i get facecampd. rank 20 team leaves me to die. thanks -.-
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Guess why q times are so long? Ranking up as survivor is too easy, swf matchmaking is ridiculous(Tofu put it best). There's probably more reasons to quit survivor than killer atm.
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I play a four man swf. We're not even that good and we only lose when we ######### around.
That's what happens when you make a game based on making it mysterious and confusing for players. People that are coordinated aren't hurt by it, hence why swfs have massive advantage over solos.
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No I already understood you have bias. This was indicated by your ignorance towards basic game mechanics.
You are basically correct in why I no longer play solo.
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Omg a person with more than one brain cell. Thank god ( i dont believe in god XD) i thought i was alone.
4man op ??? no not at all lmao. marths 2 year old experiment showd that allready XD
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Try doing a gen while the killer is chasing you. Kind of difficult ngl.
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i know swf q time is trash cause i play it my self. i can watch an entire anime episode in 2 q's.
know why? nobody wants to play killer anymore because the game can end faster than the q time
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It's so much that's it op it's rather the devs don't balance around players that actually know how to play.
You could get the same result from 4 solos that are as coordinated as swf. It'll be harder for them sure, but it just highlights BVHRs neglect to fix this problem.
After all they aren't new players, right?
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killer cant chase 4 people at once. more surviors = more gens being workd on while the killer chases.
one survivor down = 1 needs to rescue 2 still on gens. while 2 heal.
chase the third and only one left to do gens.
u understand now?
thats why early game is so important. And thats why the game is almost an insta lose when someone dc's early game. 3 surviovr cant do gens fast enough for that.
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Nope. You have no proof that there are less killers than needed globally, but there is plenty of proof that survivors are ranked higher than they should be. Come at me with logic next time bud.
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tears in my eyes. finaly someone that knows how the game works.
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Right, it is more important to get on gens while the killer is applying pressure. Survivors can sneak around doing chests and totems for the first few minutes of the game and the killer could do nothing about it (save doc). Early game gens are allowed to go away, mid game is where the game is played and where the killer starts to turn things the opposite way.
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Well if there are enough killers? why is q time 20 minutes. Sure to many people on the high ranks is one of the problems but surely not the only reason. Before the ruin nerf it was never THIS bad. we had times half a year ago where q time was 20 seconds for killer and survivor. That was the time were killers got some buffs and i though the devs understand.
The clearly didnt.
I accualy dont want to discuss this with u anymore since u cleary have not enough experience to know how broken this game is.
Looking at the stats i made for 2man swf would help u understand.
The killers we played against didnt play bad but there is one difference between randoms and me and my friend......we do gens.
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I enjoyed this :)
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thats correct. mid game is were the game is played. i agree. but 3 gens in 80 seconds is just BS no matter what. Also "while the killer is aplying pressure"
OK OK. what do u think should a survivor do when a team mate is being chased. Watch him or hide?
NO. do gens.
When a team mate goes to the unhook and he gets it done. Continue to do gens. There is nothing thats stops u if the killer is no chasing u.
If he chases u. ok loop him and the other 3 will do gens insted. see the problem?
Ths obviously only works if ur no potaot and go down in 20 seconds.
Exsample. most of the time i get chased i get chased for a long time. about a minute or two. by that time. say good by to the gens if i play swf (or have good randoms. so nearly never).
Survivors dont need to hide. Surivors have so many second chance perks and the most tiles are so strong u never go down.
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wait u the realspace coconut??? Pls notice me senpai (just kidding). Love ur videos dude :)
Do u enjoy my suffering trying to explain a survivor main how the game works? Pls send help ;-;
ps: next vid when? :)
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I agree with OP, solo queue survivors level was already extremely low, devs made things worse when they changed the rank reset.
I wish devs would start rewarding skilled survivors instead of the ones who stay crouched during the whole match and are only willing to help the team when the killer is at the other side of the map. Im looking forward to MMR
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thanks and i also look forward to it. To be honest i hope it doesnt get worse XD.
Like i know the devs......it will get worse. My expectations are low. very low.
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Queue times didn't rise with ruin change for me
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No it's not BS no matter what, it's how it has always been...ie why gens are located close together to encourage survivors employing strategy instead of popping gens as fast as possible.
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ok thats it you joking...... "it's how it has always been". that doesnt mean it doesnt need change.
"why gens are located close together to encourage survivors employing strategy instead of popping gens as fast as possible" . "strategy" its not hard to avoid a 3 gen situation except u get a killer that ants to make one.
it takes literaly 3 seconds to look around and look which gen needs to be done to avoid a 3 gen. survivor is so easy i could programm a bot that plays better than most survivors
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Travelling takes time, time matters a lot as you have told me multiple times.
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time is no variblae in for survivors in this case. even if u need 20 seconds to get to a new gen......u still have 3 team mates. one getting chases the other 2 doing gens.
Time is important and every second counts........for the killer.
Same goes with mistaks. One mistake can make a killer lose not only time but the entire match. one missed lunge one wrong loop and its over (noed may help u in this case (second chance perk). The rpoblem is that survivors have more second chance perks than there are perk slots.
DS, BT, Unbreakable just to name a few. And what do killer have? noed thats it.
Tecnicaly a killer perk need to be 4 times as strong as a survivor perks since the survivors have 4x4 aka 16 perks. Name one killer perk as strong as 4 DS . There is non not even noed
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Corrupt Intervention saves 480 seconds of progress on gens while DS = 60 × 4 = 240. Even if the killer has to "respect DS" twice the survivors do not get more value than the killer. Extra health states do not matter against instadowns, anti-slugging doesn't help against hooking and/or spreading pressure efficiently through the use of perks. Trust me, if the devs were bad at balance you would be able to tell by now.
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I couldn't disagree more. I don't main one side or the other. I like playing both and I can tell you playing killer is infinitely more frustrating than playing survivor. The gen rush is so bad I wish I could just play survivor until it's fixed, but the wait times are way too long to get a match. As long as ten minutes, sometimes longer. I literally have no stress when playing survivor. But playing killer makes me want to put my fist through my TV. And it didn't used to be like that for me, and I've been playing since the beginning. I've been here through all the changes since the beginning. From both my survivor point of view, and killer point of view, killers have much more reason to quit at the moment. No one wants to play killer and get dunked all the time, feeling like there's nothing they can do.
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I guess it makes sense to want to use 75% less effort in a party game. I rarely play it like a party game so you can tell I'm a little biased towards killer.
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The first generators don't matter, forget them because once you start getting momentum and pressure, 2-3 generators for survivors will become extremely difficult to complete. In fact, once you have solid pressure, something as little as doing 2-3 generators will take as long as doing 5-6 generators.
Killers are fine, toolboxes and maps need some changes. If you shorten maps, M1 killers receive a magnificent buff towards their map pressure and reworking toolboxes prevent generators from flying.
I agree, playing solo survivor is boring and can be frustrating at times. However, that's more because of a lot of players aren't at their correct rank. Once the developers hit the sweet spot with their ranking system, hopefully soon, then playing solo will be less of a chore. 😁
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I am one of those "potatoes". I am a decent potatoe but with a busted wrist after surgery i cant do 360s the way some people just disappear in front of me. I just reached rank 7 and am almost at 6. I almost never miss skill checks and i am starting to hit great now on a regular basis. I get my points frm the ocassional escape if there are T's and L's or mind gamed them. But if its in the open i am foogled since i cant lose them without a LOS break.
Do i belong in the ranks i am? Not really, as the game is starting to be not fun anymore facing people that are far better than me. I have no problems getting killed. When it happens game after game after game after game then it starts to be a problem and i evaluate what to do with my time.
I have gotten better over the years since release and i have seen the game evolve to what it is now but i have reached a plateau. I am not going to get any better as a surv than i am now. The only thing that will improve is the ratio of great skill checks. But i keep climbing the ranks. Only to be cannon fodder. I dont want to be there.
If the new MMR turns out ok. Fine. I will be placed with people my own rank or skill level. If there are still killers around at that point. I dont play killer anymore even though i reached purples. Far too stressful for my liking to get just one sometimes. No thanks.
I keep saying that i think i have done what is to be done in this game and yet i still keep running in circles. It does have its fun moments but for me as of now they are rare.
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It's very hard To tell what rank you are meant to be. I'm rank 1 on both killer and survivor but I don't think I should be. In my last 10 games as solo survivor, I've only played against 3 red rank killers and the rest have been in the greens which results in easy escapes.
As a killer 90% of my games are 3k/4k due to two or more weak links or potatoes. The other 10% is against legit red rank groups with no potatoes where I get utterly destroyed confirming that I don't actually belong in that rank.
Mmr wont fix this issue purely because it has to function side by side with swf. Let's say the mmr system is perfect and matches me with an equally skilled killer...what happens if I want to play with my rank 15 friend who only has 10 hours in the game? Mmr can't match both of us so it has to choose and in that choice somebody gets screwed over.
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