The news are really exciting and all but.... what about Legion??
Devs still forgot this poor Killer? :C I mean they gave Plague and Trapper some QoL changes but what about our edgy teens? Plague and Trapper werent in a super good spot but not in a terrible spot just like Leatherface or Legion aswell. It wouldnt hurt if the devs look more into some QoL changes for those terrible Killers.
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Legion nerfs will happen in the update after this one, don't you worry!
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We don’t talk about them
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Sigh, Legion is plenty populair, infact I would say legion is one of hte more populair killers.
People enjoy playing legion and statswise legion does not perform badly soooo yeah, I dont think legion needs much.
I mean thats the thing right? people ask for buffs BECAUSE they enjoy legion so much, they dont ask for buffs for killers they dont care about in the first place.
Just play legion, they have their possitives.
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I would do everything for Susie!
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Legion has no power in terms of downing survivors, yes legion have alot of map pressure and pressure tool to injure but if survivors know how to loop you will get the run of your life.
I am not asking for a huge rework, I just want something to down survivors, its just bad and laughable, when I play survivor its just funny to loop a legion for ages and he cant do anything about that. And that is really boring aswell, its just not fun having nothing to do in a chase except mindgames. There is nothing that spices up the chase and that is really dull. Atleast trapper can zone survivors into some traps, wraith can cloak and find another survivor to surprise them, leaterface trys to bring survivors to dead zones to chainsaw, what does Legion? Nothing. Just hold w like a ######### and hope they do a mistake to get a m1.
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Even though Legion has difficulties ending chases, their ability to pressure gens is very good. It's pretty much an automatic win if one survivor dies because you can keep everyone injured and off the gens.
I mean, I'd love to get some changes or buffs to make playing as Legion a bit more fun but from balance perspective, I think they're in a fine spot.
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Dont rush too much. They re making breakable walls, that probably would make m1 killers more effective than ever
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as legion, you hit someone with frenzy which they have a hard time to avoid, then either hit others or chase, undo frenzy and catch them.
Or leave them knowing they will be busy for a bit dealing with the mending.
Again, people love legion and legion is not doing poorly statswise so yeah.
Obviously some small changes could be done, but how do you see this work out then for Legion. what balanced idea do you have to make them able to down someone?
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Eyactly, Legion is great in pressering gens and keeping everyone injured and creates with this some pressure. The problem is just downing survivors, they just need something for his and thats it!
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He’s a problem within the game. People still like playing him especially the edgelords on reddit but for the most part survivors find him as fun as watching paint dry. If I pick him for a daily the survivors are guaranteed to give up on hook.
I think he’s just really bad game design in general and a low spot for the game. He needs a full rework. They can’t really justify buffing him again because survivors would just give up on hook even more.
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Dont want to be rude but you dont need to explain how to play Legion xD
I made once a post about my possible Legion update, my main point about that was to add a new secondary ability to down them. Something simple like a dash. As I said, Legion is overall fine, just the ability to down survivors quicker, thats the ONLY thing that Legion needs.
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Legion is kinda like a double-edged sword. He has a fun gameplay for Killers because it is really statisfying running around really fast and vaulting fast everything to get chain hits. But Legion is not strong in terms of Hooking but also Legion is really boring to play against since you have almost none interaction with the Killer and that makes it boring. I can understand your view.
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The only thing I want for Legion is the miss penalty. And maybe the hit penalty outside of FF.
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A dash to down them from frenzy? or you have to go out for frenzy to do it? and how does the dash work? copy the pig? thats not very original, a straight dash maybe? wait...demogorgon.
But if we forget about originality, the power legion has is to quickly catch up to survivors no matter what, that is the reason frenzy does not down them, if you give Legion an ability to do so during frenzy...idk if thats a good thing.
And im not telling you how to play legion, i just typed a base scenario of how they work compared to your ermm horror story of looping a legion.
That is simply not something that goes a lot of the time, especially legion who can just vault a pallet or window after the survivor.
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What about the 15 other killers that aren't getting an update either? Why is Legion always brought up like they need it sooo bad? Bubba and Clown need updates WAY more than Legion. Legion is in a pretty good spot to be entirely honest. They aren't a super strong killer, but they definitely aren't the weakest.
I swear Legion mains are so emo.
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i wish they give him whole new power his one is pretty boring m1 simulator
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Don't forget clown. He needs some loving too. Demo could use some works. Imo his portal ability doesn't come in play enough.
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"Undo frenzy" thats 4 SECONDS
Its worse than a pallet stun!
Thats the main problem, 4 second fatigue makes it very hard to down someone after the frenzy.
I had an idea to make it shorter (0.5s or 0.75s or 1s) for every hit during that frenzy. That would be cool and make great multi hit plays more rewarding.
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and did you try to look at that from a survivor perspective?
Imagine not being able to get away at all from legion because they are simply faster than you are and can do everything you can, you get hit, they run up again, unfrenzy and m1 you down.
That..... yeah that is not really going to be a good time at all.
As it is you can still move in fatigue and often just m1 them as is already.
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You still wouldnt be able to down while in frenzy though. And right now its ridiculous, its not worth stunning Legion with a pallet because the stun is shorter thatn fatigue.
Also if the killer Frenzy'ied 4 people, then he should have a chance to catch AT LEAST one. Right now it doesnt matter if you hit one person and immediately cancelled or if you hit 4 people and now are coming for the 1st again. And there should be a difference.
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idk about that tbh, I run often past survivors, blocking where they are trying to go while in fatigue and then just M1 them
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Personally I think legion is in a decent spot. Don’t get me wrong, they’re far from A or even B tier but the art of body blocking with frenzy can be pretty useful if done right. However, the real underestimated power is knowing where the survivors are- I hit someone in frenzy and I can see whoever is around me- no hiding in lockers or head ons coming for me! It’s not gamechanging but one hit is all it takes to know that there are 2 people on a gen close by or someone healing in a corner (I’m looking at you Claudette). I’m an avid Legion main and although I use honestly pretty crippling builds for survivor (Corrupt, Pop, I’m all ears, Thanat + Filthy Blade and Legion Pin) I find it easier to 4K with them than most killers. I also never see people disconnecting or killing themselves on the hook either but that might just be my luck. Truth is, legion isn’t an excellent killer in red ranks but you have to use every possible mind game and legion trick you can pull to make it work; they keep me thinking, help me improve so to speak. They give me time by mending to make decisions that would otherwise have to be split second. Don’t know if it’s a whole different experience for other people against 4 man SWF and whatnot... Never faced one with legion before and I hope there never comes a day where I have to
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They have to do something good with the Legion.
First: We deserve it. The Legion has face the most destructive nerf what a killer had ever got.
So we deserve something good too balance that out.
Two: The Legion should make fun again. Not only for the people that are happy to have now another m1 killer in their box - together with so many others - no... Also for the people that wanted more and have known the true potential of the Legion.
The Legion rework update was like, as would have someone put a middle finger in all the faces that have love to play the old Legion - or against it.
They have to do something, if they ever want that people like those and me trust bhvr again.
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I know you can do that, but bodyblocking doesnt work on good surviviors.
Its like saying Wraith is strong enough because he can just bodyblock you and decloak... And Wraith still decloaks faster than Legion cancels Frenzy..
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yes and Wraith cant attack while cloaked, which Legion can, you cant really compare killers 1 on 1, Legion might not be completely done yet, but people still love playing legion and do fine when they are so its just not that important to look at for now.
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Really? I see a lot of good Legion players dominating with slowdown builds.
I personally don't think Legion needs anything. (They're boring enough at the moment anyway)
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Legion? You mean that single guy with a knife who occasionally swaps out his mask to pretend he's someone else? Might as well call him 4chan in that case.
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Old freddy could dominate alot of survivors aswell. It just depends on how many mistakes survivors do, I am talking with the mindset of survivors who have decent knowledge of looping.
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I havent seen much Legions that enjoy them how they are atm, they are mostly playing because they love FF itself, but the Killer itsself feels very clunky and weird. The current "best" Legion is Hewie and he shares this opinion amongst many others.
And Wraith would be way too strong if he could attacke in cloak since he can be very fast with windstorm addons.
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You are slowed down during the cooldown, its not hard for survivior to get out of range and gain distance during these 4 seconds. And Legion cant down during Frenzy, so the comparision to the cloaking is appropriate.
Legion is currently the worst killer (after clown), he may have better pressure than Bubba, but Bubba can instadown and this makes him better at winning games than Legion.
So yes, Legion needs a change.
Post edited by Archimedes5000 on0 -
Tbh clown is in a way worse spot than legion is
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If they are boring then thats all the more reason to change them
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Yeah I guess.
But the OP said that he wants Legion to change because they're bad
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I am not a fan from addon changes.
The old Legion has shown how extrem overpowered they can be.
Some may can remember how short the frenzy time back in the day was. The design was perfect for people that had love to have a short-but very strong-action time window.
FranksMixtape as example had outplay this mechanic and lead to a feeled hour (I'm exaggerating here, I know) of frenzy duration. I as a lover of that short "action window" was extremly bored by this addon for this very reason.
Also the end was, that I can bet, that the existince of the FranksMixtape was one of the biggest reasons, why the rework had happen in the first place. Besides the exploits of course.
Imo, better a solid base kit, as strong addons that later lead again to a rework.*
Edit: *Because we all know what happens if bhvr trys to do a rework on the Legion :|.
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Yeah, i agree with you. I love the same type of ability that you described here. The legion's rework had no thinking about us players that loved that game style.
It was lethal, short, fast, frenzying and fluid. None of that happens now.
Lethal: COMPLETELY removed.
Short: It lasts 10 seconds base and it doesnt feel unique.
Fast: The speed got reduced by a drastic amount and made it feel sluggish.
Frenzying: Missing an attack now takes you out. Instead of going all-in, you need to be careful to miss, its not that rushdown that used to happen before. (This is usually misunderstood with broken/counterplay lacking, but you can maintain the short cooldown on missing and make it just drop a portion of the bar, for example).
Fluid: It feels very sluggish to run at a slower speed than before and face a 4 seconds fatigue and then have a 20 second cooldown after that.
Imo, the old legion was in the right direction, but needed a few changes that were, clearly, not the ones that they did.
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You got it.
It's nice to see a old horse like you being around here :).
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Agree the current legion still feels really sluggish, unstatisfying and boring. Old Legion was actually really well done and only needed some QoL changes but for some reason the devs lost some braincells while doing the legion changes and now we ended up having this.
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Im concerned about the devs position about legion now.
The rework was rushed and killed most of the uniqueness of that killer. It was in may of 2019.
Now, we're at february of 2020 and little to no changes at all were made. The rework was done thinking about a single game style and was rushed, so badly performed.
I really don't see where the devs find legion in an ok place now. Devs had 2 options with the rework: maintain the rushdown style or the boring one (chaining hits), they chose the boring one and now we're at this mess...
Don't get me wrong, i like to chain hits, but not for so damn long. Its much preferable the rushdown style because it is more interactive and is less annoying for the survivors too.
I think that feral frenzy is an ability that fits a 4.4m/s killer that has a short window to perform really well. Change my mind xDDDD
The old game style could be done adding power in some places and removing power in other things. For example (Feral frenzy's movement speed increased from 5.28 to 5.6 but legion cannot vault pallets) something like this (the numbers are purely representative).
It's always cool to know that im not the only one that didn't forget how fun it was to play old legion (in a non-exploitive way ofc)
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Guaranteed to give up on hook?
Damn we mist get completely different poils of players, usually I dont get any DCs or suicide from legion. Just people who think they're hot ######### and get caught.
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Yeah like when he changes his voice, posture, body shape, hair length and color with just a mask.
Like, seriously?
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Spider magic. It's the answer to everything.
But seriously there's no gameplay to reflect more than one person working against the survivors. It's like watching a Michael Bay film and the screen turns black to say "explosion" instead of well, an explosion.
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Well yeah, but theres no gameplay to truly reflect the pig and how her traps actually work, or gameplay to show spirit and oni are actually related other than name.
It's called imagination, some things you have to fill in the blanks yourself.
Like, ofc they cant make 4 killers for 1. People would play one over the other for being "op" and people would ######### about how 1/4 was better than the rest or just make 4 killers. Those options dont work.
And I'm fine with it. I love my susie outfits. I forgot base legion was a smiley edgy teen guy a long time ago.
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Pig is blatantly obvious. It's a helmet with a timer that shoots ketchup in your eyes. Her entire backstory is tied to a serial killer who uses traps.
Spirit and Oni are only loosely connected by media and family name. They otherwise barely exist to each other and function as separate entities. They're not even mentioned in each others story iirc.
Legion has multiple personas and costumes for what purpose? You can't equip it on the other characters because they don't exist. Should have been called the Lone Wolves or something.
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1 old legion even with original deep wounds wasn't super good
2 i'd rather see clown get buffs than legion because legion is in a better spot
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We talking here about fun. The question if he is good or bad is secondary in this discussion.
It is just a fact that after the Legion rework, no other killer could cater the old Legion players with a similar gameplay, while others have got another m1 killer in their already overfilled box.
If you have never feel the adrenaline rush while you were hunting a survivor down, you don't know from what we are here talking about :).
Edit: Also nobody had asked for a Legion rework on this scale. To make this rework were their decision. Against all the warnings that we would end up in this situation and well... If someone makes a mess, he has to clean it up. Especially if he has done the mess while everyone has say: "no, not on this way".
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Imo oni fits that description of adrenaline rush while hunting survivors down
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I haven't play Oni, but so far what I have see of him in videos... Yes, he seems to have similarities, but I doubt that it is the same game experience as to run wild stabbing behind someone.
But anyways, thanks for the tip, even if it was not really what I had try to descripe.
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No I understood what you were trying to describe since legion isn't as "fun" as he originally was and tbf I can see why the devs originally see why the devs destroyed legion instead of overhauling how chases and how deep wounds/borrowed time works
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From what I've read, the devs think Legion is in a good place and have no changes planned despite the complaints.
I really think a few simple number changes would make Legion way more fun to play (Reduce the stun plz)!
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