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When are we going to get a balance around killer fun?
Its been brought up slowdown isn't fun for survivors, but for myself and others, gens popping like crazy isn't fun for the killer? When are we going to get a second objective or something to increase the length of the games without increasing the time on generators? Or is it just one sided on who is fun because survivors are the majority and give the devs the most money?
Comments
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Stop trying to hook too many survivors and you can have all the fun you want.
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Ah the old "Give up or play nurse" No thanks, I hope some day all killers can play without being ######### less than 2 or 3 minutes into a match
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You already know the answer to your question. 80% of the player base gets the fun.
Choosing to main Killer is not for the faint of heart. It's for the insane and the masochist.
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I play survivor and killer 50/50. Game isn't fun on either side. Doing gens in 3 mins and escaping isn't fun and neither is black pip every game. So your statement should be reworded to when are we gonna get a balance around the whole game being fun again
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Oh please. More than anything else survivors hate camping and tunneling. Yet its still in the game for killers to do to their hearts content. Its definitely not all about survivors fun
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camping and tunneling is increasingly becoming something you have to do as a killer because of how survivor sided the game is.
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That’s what bad players say. You don’t have to do any of that and it’s a really bad tactic against good survivors.
Let me guess you also need NOED right?
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YUP
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We need a proper sandbag game mode. A special map for 1 killer, 20 survivors, 19 hooks. All the survivors try to screw each other, killer just goes on a smacking spree. Last survivor alive gets a guaranteed 32k BP. Slugging doesn't work as survivors have built in unbreakable. The incentive for unhooking is survivors get 1% more movement speed and it stacks with every unhook.
Random idea, seems fun for both sides. The only point of this would be for fun.
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I don't condone camping. Patrolling in the area of a hook is cool, but camping is out.
But tunneling? When a survivor gets pulled off a hook and then runs right in me, I'm going to knock them back down. That's not tunneling. That's taking advantage of the time I have because generators go by way too quickly.
There's no stress for survivors anymore. No fear. Survivors know how to loop the killer and eat of their time until the gens are done.
The horror aspect is honestly not there anymore. There's nothing for survivors to fear.
On the other hand, killers are constantly stressed by and afraid of the ticking clock that is the generators. One missed hit. One pallet slam. One single misplay, and the survivors snowball through the game.
It's a nightmare.
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In my case it's the stupidly competitive.
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Hello my friend
I have a lot of fun playing killer. But that is mainly because i forgot how it actually feels to get genrushed (usually they die before they finish gens).
I recommand that you kill them aswell. How? By getting better at the game. No joke! ;)
(once upon a time i was like you, then i stepped up my game)
If you think its impossible, then you have to try harder. Dont let anyone here tell you, you can not have fun as a killer.
Same thing for survivor. Survivors dont complain that much, because they normally have a more relaxing game, killer gameplay is more stressful. I think this is the nature of the game. And there is nothing devs can do about this. If they make it even more easy to get kills, so killers have absoluty no stress, the game would be totally broken.
Anyway, there is only one thing to say:
"Practice" - Fatality
(And while you do, relax, its still just a game at the end of the day)
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Earlier today, I tried to play a game as killer. I was trying to play Wraith (not the strongest of killers, but I have all perks on him and find him the most fun) and found myself against a team of 2 red ranks, a purple, and a green. They where running a bunch of healing perks (autodidact, solidarity, botany knowledge) between them, and took hits like no tomorrow.
Survivors aren't at all scared of killers, and there's no reason to be. They can't act unpredictably, their ability to put out damage is extremely limited, and a team as a whole can heal up what hits you do get in ridiculously fast.
I feel like healing timers need to get slightly longer with each hit, or something, ANYTHING really, to discourage survivors from using health states as an expendable resource to stall with.
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The matchmaking won't let you get better. You can't learn if you're constantly getting survivors that are much better than you. There's quite a bit that the devs could do to make the killer experience less stressful.
- Nerf DS. 4 survivors, 2 hook states where it's available, 60 second invulnerability, translates into 8 minutes of safe time for survivors.
- Nerf flashlights. It's ridiculous for the beam to be outside of your FOV and still be able to blind you.
- Add a cooldown to BT.
- Increase gen times, or give better slowdown perks.
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Dead by Daylight: battle royale mode.
It sounds so fun, but terribly unrealistic xD
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Never...
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Thats so wrong. You just have to get some skill. And skill doesnt involve tunneling, camping, slugging, mori or OP addons.
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Actually a very fast way to level up your game is to constantly play people who are better than you. Obviously you need to have a grasp of the game mechanics. But let's say you played ten games in something at difficulty level 5, it can go up to to 10 in difficulty. Your skill level is at 5. You'll play and do fine, but your personal skill level won't really increase. You play 10 games at level 10 difficulty. You may lose every single game, but you go back to level 5 difficulty and it's suddenly a cake walk.
My description may have been a little weird, but it always works for me. But I come from a lot of fighting games in my background. I like fighting people who are better than me because I improve much much faster than playing against people who are at, or above my skill level.
As for your suggestions.
As for DS, I'd only nerf it so that it becomes disabled if you are not slugged, and someone else got hooked.
Flashlights to me personally suck, I never bring them as survivor. You almost never get a flashlight save, and all the good killers have headphones on so even if you blind them at a pallet they just follow you anyways.
I wouldn't nerf Borrowed Time, but I would change it from Terror radius based, to killer proximity based. Don't camp the hook, and if you just gotta camp the hook, take down the survivor who decided to do the unhooking right in your face.
As for increasing gen times, I'd be all for different killers having different gen speeds, going from 80 seconds to a maximum of 90 seconds. So Billy would be an 80 second gen killer. Demogorgon could be 85 seconds, and someone like Clown could be 90 seconds. But that's just a thought. I don't agree with a universal increase, as that would just make strong killers even stronger.
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I have to disagree, you actually learn the most versus good survivors.
About your perk suggestions.
DS: I agree, it should be nerfed a bit, i would reduce the timer to 25-30 seconds, but IF you down them during that time, you have to eat DS, no matter what comes.
Flashlights dont need nerfs. There are walls. And you can bait it aswell.
I would be fine with a BT cooldown. But honestly, BT is really only strong vs camping + tunneling. If you really have to proxycamp, then go for the unhooker, not the hooked person.
Gentime is fine. Dont take chases that do not favour you, genpatroling and pressure is way more imporant. After 10-15 seconds without getting a hit, you are more or less forced to break a chase, unless you know that the benefit of a down is really big. Also keep in mind that sometimes a short chase with 1 pallet out of the way is big aswell.
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If getting a strong team happened 20-30% of the time, it wouldn't be a problem. You could improve, but when it's 90% of the time, there is no fun or improvement to be had. Losing 10 out of 10 is a great way to get people to leave the game. I don't play the game to become the best to ever play, I play it to enjoy it..
DS needs to deactivate if you enter a locker, touch a gen, get healed, or another survivor gets hooked. You don't play the same caliber of survivor that I do, if you did, you would want flashlights nerfed too. All BT needs is a 30 second cooldown.
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I dunno, maybe it's different for other people, but I don't get better when I go up against survivors who are extremely above my skill level. I can't catch them and I can't figure out how to catch them. I just get bored and I quit playing. When I go up against survivors around my skill level, I can get gradually a little better over time. When I go up against survivors who are way better, I see no improvement.
It's pretty much the same if I go up against killers who are extremely better; the only difference is I die too quickly to learn anything.
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You clearly don't play the same caliber of survivor that I do. I get rank 1's with between 2500-4500 hours. Walls DO NOT WORK against flashlights, I've been blinded where I can only see wall and my weapon. Not to mention the locker tech, survivor jumps in, killer opens it, gets pushed back, and teammate gets the save.
I covered the other points in my response to bloodynights.
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But you know who are responsible of neither part gets fun? 4 players due to the killer do the best they can. Generally and most killers I think if we manage to knock down 4 survs we allow one to killer grasp escape while survs is killer havent got luck basically leaves.
Your fun depends of the survs not killer. If you get pursued and both have fun but 3 gens pop up same time I insta change the chip and start ruining others fun.
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Bt would be fine at it is if killer would have time I mean im sure that as killer if u hook someone and only one gen got repaired in 2 mins you dont tunnel the unhooked. The more pressure you put on killer more pressure will put on the unhooked becuz we want less worries
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I play killer in red ranks, against red ranked survivors with Myers quite often. Survivors with flashlights happen. They run at you as soon as you hover over a person's body that you knocked down. Most of the time you can hear it through your headphones. You usually have two options at this point. Grab the survivor while facing a wall, or turn your ass around and smack that flashlight wielding survivor. I usually look at a wall, or to a spot that would be difficult for survivors to flashlight you from just in case they found one in a chest when picking survivors up even when I don't see one in the lobby. Just out of habit.
I feel you on not wanting to get basically bullied until you improve enough to where they can't bully you. I was only addressing your statement that you can't learn from constantly playing players who are better than you. As that's usually the best way possible to learn any game quickly.
DS doesn't actually bother me as killer...unless I've hooked someone, and then I down the person again after. I usually don't pay attention to how long it's been when I've chosen not to hunt them down. I don't agree with if they basically do anything it should get deactivated. The killer could have gotten there just in time to see where the survivor went, and the survivor went to a gen, and the killer slaps them. Like a Myers or Ghostface or something. They still technically got tunneled. But they absolutely didn't get tunneled if someone else got hooked.
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It can be different for different people. If you have the I give up attitude because you are not having fun. You probably won't get better, you also don't usually get better after facing something once. You need to do it several times. The getting better quickly usually comes from having a competitive drive. For example your motivation for not losing as killer to these red ranks, is so you don't get bullied and teabagged every single match. You'll get better at chases even if you lose the games, you'll develop better pressure without realizing it because you start to understand what they are thinking etc. It doesn't mean you'll automatically go from a 5 to a 10 after those ten matches. But it could mean you go from a 5 to a 8 in a much shorter amount of time than normal.
You can still improve and get better while playing games at your skill level. It's just usually a slower process.
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i'm sure you'd love it if every killer ignored their only advantages and mindlessly chased and roamed while you m1 gens for 4 minutes and get an escape with zero effort
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Do you think camping is fun? Do you think tunneling is fun? No. And people only do that so they have a chance of winning (of which if the survivors play properly then the killer can't win).
The killer has very few things to make their game fun, mainly getting rewarded for things like a good blink hit, a good chainsaw etc. Another reason why high ranks is plagued with the same 3 killers.
Also survivors "not having fun" doesn't justify the killers not having fun either. If no sides are having any sort of fun, it's a problem and needs to be addressed. Similarly if only 1 side was having fun that would also be an issue.
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Umm...I’m more likely to mindlessly hold M1 if the killer is tunneling or camping someone else.
If they spread the chases around then I’d be getting chased too and unable to “mindlessly hold M1”
Think about it.
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Well, after enough matches of not having fun and not seeing any improvement, yeah, I'll stop playing. I mean, I played an FPS while being the absolute worst for a long time, but even though I was terrible it was fun and I was able to see slow, gradual improvement. Every match was a mix of skill levels, so I wasn't just getting stomped by much better players constantly.
Although, I don't think I really have a competitive drive. Especially not in DbD. I play to have fun, whether that means just memeing around or actually bothering to hook survivors as killer or whatever seems fun at the time. But whether I'm playing to screw around or to win, in order to interact with the players improvement is required. And I've seen improvement since I started, but lately when matchmaking keeps putting me up against survivors of a much higher skill level, I just feel lost. There's a lot going on in DbD, so when you're worse at everything vs the competition... you just kinda get stuck and flounder.
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You think that you are just unlucky and you get only pro survivors? I am pretty sure, and you know it probably aswell, that this is more then unlikely. Just an example, i had yesterday a 4man squad, red ranks ofc with a combined playtime of 20.000 hours. (yes, 20 thousend hours!). While most people would either dogde the game i was happy to face such experienced players.
3K with last guy on deathhook by the way. Guess Wraith was 2 powerful for them.
Loosing 10 games out of 10 constantly has nothing to do with killers beeing weak. Keep in mind, killrate is clearly above 50%, on red up to 80%. On top of that, if you really loose all the time, you are probably not in redranks. Unless it is buged again (not for me btw) you should not verse to many red ranked players aswell.
But you are right with one thing: It is pure random what survivors you can skillwise....
Still, if you really hate versing good players, then i might have good news for you: They are working on an improved ranking system, which will probably be like a ELO Ladder. Then you will get survivors that will fit more your skilllevel.
So the best you can hope for (unfortunatly) is that Elo comes fast, but other then that, devs wont ballance around your needs because of obvious reasons.
Good luck with your games :)
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I've thought about this a lot honestly.
The fact is yes survivors can be camped or tunneled or whatever, but they have plenty of tools to deal with that and in SWF you can literally bypass all of it short of a facecamping bubba or a tunneling pig or something. If you are solo then whatever you can just suicide on hook and go to a new game, and the whole gameplay is not very stressful. Not to say it can't be annoying in it's own way, but to compare it to killer.....
Killer is stressful, anxiety ridden, and often a horrible experience if you get bullied by a SWF or even DARE to turn your post game chat back on for a little bit. It's mostly because of the pressure the game puts on you to WIN, as well as the hugely broken matchmaker more than anything.
Assuming they do fix the matchmaker, lets pretend that is not an issue anymore. Playing survivor I am trying to escape but it's not an anxious stressful mess up until I die, it's pretty calm experience and even if I die it's like w/e onto the next game.
When you make one mistake as killer you feel it hard, and the repercussions last ALL game. So my final idea is this:
To reduce the absolute NEED for a killer to "Win" and to put more emphasis on reward for challenge and effort, and to provide more interesting variables for them to experiment with to expand the amount of fun they can have in a game. Things that lessen the crippling defeatism killer's tend to feel, and instead reward them for at least actually trying and playing the game in a healthy non toxic manner.
I've gone into detail before on several ideas I have to achieve this; but honestly given BHVR it would be a waste to put effort into breaking it all down again, as I doubt any of this will ever be attempted at all anyways. BHVR is stubborn and believes they know best, and that their ideas are right and that the general experience players have is worth nothing. So the first thing is trying to get them out of that mindset and more into the action mindset first......
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You should have seen my first time playing a multiplayer fps....I was terrible. lol I played against my friend who was match better than me and a few other people I think it was in Halo or something. I died like 20 times before I managed to kill him once. But slowly it was me dying 10 times before I killed him, then 5 times....he quit before I got much better though. I still sucked at fps's though, just got better. It's really not my genre. Though I do like Overwatch alright.
I got an obnoxious competitive drive, but also I like to have fun and meme around. My competitive drive can get in the way of others enjoying something because I'll see the most effective methods of playing something very quickly, which ends with other people not having fun, and not wanting to play with me.
But uhh back to DBD the match making is pretty screwed. my rank was in the yellows I think like 14. Because I took a break and just about every game was a mixture of red/purple or just red rank survivors. There was even a reverse game where everyone was green ranks and I was the purple ranked killer. Normally I'm red ranks so I didn't have a problem facing them, they were actually easier than most actual dedicated red ranks, probably because of the dumb ranking system reset. But I know a lot of killers were upset that most of the survivors they've faced have played long enough to actually get to red ranks even when their own rank wasn't even close. So I understand why it isn't fun. I just hope it get fixed with the new mmr system....
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I run around rank 6-8. 90% of my matches are against "pro survivors". I watch most of the popular streamers, and what I encounter are what Tru3 calls the top .05%. Ridiculous understanding of the tiles, distances, mindgames, and they all run the meta perks. They basically play optimally and mistake free.
I'm hoping the mmr ranking will be better, but I seriously doubt it.
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As I mentioned, the wall doesn't work. See this thread here for more people griping about the exact same thing. And yes, I know about baiting the flashlight out, except they know and take off in a straight line, only to swing right back around when you go for the pickup. Just slug you say? Great idea....oh crap, they have unbreakable. Meanwhile the gen jockeys with commodious boxes are banging out gens every 45 seconds. So just pressure them off...well ruin is useless, and pop only works after you hook someone, but you can't hook someone when the flashlight mosquito is buzzing around.
So you chase them off gens, but they run to the nearest safe pallet or god loop where it takes 60+ seconds to run them down, whoops, you didn't pressure gens while chasing a survivor because now the gates are powered and the hit you just worked 60 seconds for is negated by adrenaline. So you finally get a hook, where they hook bomb with BT, then body block, and even if you do down him again, he has DS. GGEZ, and nerf billy and noed please, they're OP.
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There is a major difference between playing someone who is better than you, vs. playing against the player whose been at top rank, and has a high amount of hours.
A green rank player vs. a red rank player isn't gonna teach the green rank player anything. Instead it will just be an easy game for the red rank player, and a sweat fest for the green rank.
What I consider fair is a green rank vs a purple rank, as there is a difference in skill level, but it isn't massive.
This is why the +-6 rank rule and mm is unbalanced and unfair. As a player, you shouldn't face against a player 2 color ranks above you. Perfect example was one post where a player was a rank 14 killer, yet he faced a rank 7 survivor (purple rank). The +- 6 rank rule essentially mad eit so a yellow rank killer faced a survivor who had massive amount of experience compared to the rank 14 killer.
A +-4 rank rule, would be more fair and balanced, as at most you would face 1 color rank above you, which would lead to more fair matches.
Another symptom is the MM and how essentially you get green ranks vs red ranks all the time.
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I've never been blinded while staring at a wall ever in DBD. I have probably 4000+ hours on the game even if it's split between killer and survivor. But yeah. Also I'm Myers, if they are dumb enough to come to me and for some strange reason I can't just smack them, I can stalk them. It's a win/win for me. They aren't doing a gen, and one is on the ground so they are not doing a gen. Another is feeding me an insta down whenever I like on a killer with a tiny heartbeat. They are also most likely injured because they were in audio range to try and make the flash light save.
Stop the hyperbole man. I'd gladly enter a game with every survivor having flashlights, I don't need franklin's or lightborn. Those survivors are just gonna feed me free hits, and evil within, while not doing gens while they attempt to make saves and babysit fallen allies. I have zero issues with flashlights at all.
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I agree a green rank killer won't really get better against red ranked survivors. Green rank killers usually don't have a basic understanding of the game mechanics yet to see an improvement. It would have to be at least yellow ranks I'd feel before they could take advantage of stress inducing games. Mostly like at the lower spectrum of yellow ranks so like rank 11 or 10. If you are much higher than that you don't have a enough of a grasp of the games mechanics to improve how you play.
But yeah matchmaking is dumb, I think everyone who plays DBD even the devs agree it isn't in a good place right now.
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For you, 4k is fun
For suvivors, doing something beside holding m1 and watching a progress bar would be "not boring"
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Meyers is why. You play a killer with a power that directly negates shenanigans. It's like Bubba, you don't dare get close. I will join one of those lobbies too. It was just said there's nothing the devs can do to relieve killer stress, when simple tweaks to bully tools would do quite well.
I've already accepted the fact that the DBD devs aren't capable of balancing this game. Not that they don't want to, but they're too limited in skill and imagination to do so.
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Please stop mentioning statistics that you do not understand.
Killrates are not even close to 80%. Those red ranks only mean red ranked killers, so utterly meaningless to try to state something about red ranks when the stats of red ranks mean only red ranked killers. Those can go against green survivors.
Pretty sure that you learn nothing as a noob killer going against experienced survivors because the game does a piss poor job of explaining what actually is happening. Do you believe that people who are noobs in the game are even able to understand what they did wrong ? I doubt it.
The MMR you mentioned is something they claim which nobody will be able to verify. They just take the rank away so nobody will complain anymore about bad match making. Not you nor me are able to see the mmr and you will not see whether it was equally skilled people or whatever.
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Kinda like a twist on the battle royale formula lol i cant believe im saying this, but this sounds really fun. I imagine bubba would be meta vs sandbaggers lol
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A red ranked killer might run vs a green ranked killer from time to time, but that is rare. Yet that there is not so much difference shows the other graph. 60 - 65% on average. Since it will even it out on the long run who you are versing, these are the numbers that are correct. So apparently, and no matter how you wanna see it, killers can get kills.. A LOT. And please, dont start now with "how many hooks did they get...", it should be clear that these numbers would be very high aswell on average.
Thats true, you dont learn to much as a noob killer vs god tier survivors, but that would be a very delusional assumption to make that any new player verses the best survivors all the time.
Interesting informations you apparently have about the MMR system or is this just random speculation? Show a link with the information or stop spreading false information.
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it's because survivors give the devs more money. I've always said that there needs too be more objectives or gens need too take longer. The biggest problem is that the survivor meta hasn't changed in the games entire lifespan, and the devs clearly don't have any intention too change that.
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I think those days are over.
There are too many toxic people who do nothing but antagonize the killer from the start to the end. They care little of the fact that they fail most of the time. It is just to give the killer a hard time.
They have mascots. I dont think ochido plays anymore. At least not under that name. If i rem correctly he got banned for that behavior. But .....i doubt he left this game and just plays under a different name.
Then there is the endgame chat. Iturn it off for a reason even if they did well. I just dont talk to the other side anymore. There is always one idiot who cant take it one way or the other. If they win they gotta mouth off. If they lose they gotta mouth off. So i just turn it off.
A large part of this game, for the skilled playing around the lesser skilled, is making a mockery of the other side rather than actually just playing the game. This is encouraged with flashlights, perks, map design and outfits.
You got away from the killer? Great. Why are you still in his face? They have no fear. Killers are for the most parts just points pinata's. Ding. Ding. Ding.
We even get penalized for being killers. Less points if you are a literal killer and kill people. We are supposed to chase them around teh block for a minute and then leave the hook to go and chase somebody else for another min. Anything less and we are screwed for points and ranking.
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The gen rush meta is really residentsleeper at this point, this is the problem.
The killers are powerful enough but having a 5 min match kills the mood even when you 4k.
Recently i started linking the generator simulator to survivors, so maybe i can make them stop afking the gens in the game, and do it on the site.
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No it doesn't even out not in the slightest. Red ranks are already flooded with boosted people due to the horrible ez pz mode that you can rank up as survivor. We balance the game around people who are too bad to hit a great skillcheck, this is where it is at. Don't know how we will reduce the skill floor even further, maybe autopilot for loops, not sure tho.
This is the very reason why it matters when red killer goes against anything but red survivor which already is inflated due what I mentioned. Also you do not know the amount of how much one or the other happens thus it is assumption on your end that it is a 50/50.
60/65 to 80 is the diffrence between average of 2 or 3. Wanna look at pips? I doubt it. No it is nothing delusional to this day back to december is a very common think for yellow ranked killers to be matched with red/purple and for green as well. Just check the pages, they are full with people complaining about it, rightfully so.
No I do not have informations about the MMR, nothing is known to the community thus far about it. What worries me is what I mentioned, usually mmr serves the purpose to see how well you do against equally skilled opponents and so on including a leaderboard. Tell me why hide it and leave the playerbase with nothing but "well ranks don't matter now anymore we got our super special secret mmr which you can not see but trust us, it just works!"? This is exactly the reason why leaderboards via MMR are not hidden and people can check out who they played against etc..
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True I do it
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True or remove them.
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