Unbreakable, if it works its too good, change my mind.
Since slugging became a very popular strategy, even more then before, its just too good to have atleast one unbreakable. Even better if more then one. I had various games where I would win by having 4 survivors slugged but 1 unbreakable manage to throw me completly off and bring back the entire game.
Unbreakable doesnt work always and is a situational perk just like adrenaline. I am totally aware of that. If you dont manage to use it, it will become a useless perk basicly. But you take this risk with many other perks.
My problem with unbreakable is, it provides a way too huge benefit (if it works) and can manage to win the entire game, and that even if just 1 out of 4 survivors use it. Survivors should not be able to throw off the entire pressure of a Killer with just 1 perk that can even be stacked up too 4, while the Killer cant do that. Killers dont have any kind of perks like that and also you never know if a survivors have unbreakable, and there is also NO counterplay to that perk except hooking but you will never manage to play a 12 hook game with the current game lenght.
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Slugging is a strategy, and unbreakable helps to counter it. It doesn't change the entire game. You could have hooked them making it useless. I see it having less of an impact on the game than DS.
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You should still have good pressure on them and one less unbreakable, seems like a good scenario still.
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Yes, I still have pressure but for a example, from pressure 100 I got back too 20. That is way too huge for no trade off. Adrenaline, Borrow, D strike, dead hard even deliverance are anti pressure perks and all of them have a requirement. Some have less then others but atleast some. Unbreakable doesnt have any requirement and can be used every time without any downside and that is really unfair of a balancing view.
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Dude, if you want to debate the point, stick to the point. Don't use that lame tactic of trying to dismiss my opinion by acting as if I "just don't play enough". Maybe it's you that hasn't played enough. See how stupid that is to assume?
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The requirement is being downed and fully recovering. It isn’t high effort but it does have a requirement.
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Slugging is strong.
Unbreakable's only objective is to counter slugging.
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The problem is, the requirement is the objective of the Killer. Same as Noed but noed has 2 direct counteprlays while unbreakable has none.
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Picking them up is counter play, just like you counter noed by cleansing totems.
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Well... I mean... you opened a thread saying "UNBREAKABLE OP PLS NERF" so I'm not entirely sure you understand the perk.
There is absolutely no problem with unbreakable, but let's say there is, how would you nerf it?
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Slugging more than one survivor shouldnt even be possible, cause its just outdoing game mechanics to prevent any survivor play, and its just annoying as survivor (esp. the 4k slug).
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I think unbreakable is in a good spot.
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Unbreakable: A one time use perk that rarely comes into play unless the killer slugs excessively and even then it won't necessarily turn the tables unless the killer messes up a lot in which case the killer didn't deserve to 4k in the first place. The most fair one time use perk in the game imo. Can be countered by picking up survivors instead of trying to slug the whole team.
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No, not the same. What you gave was not a counterpoint. You could hook, but choose not to in order to get more done. That isn't a counterpoint, it is a risk vs reward decision. Hooking is a counter to slugging. If you don't slug, they can't use it. It's not OP in any way.
Current game length is a different topic, and the real problem. Too much favors the survivors and screws over the killers, most recently the ruin nerf. Slugging is a tactic being used to help add some extra time for the killer to work with. It is getting used so much, though, that now survivors are taking perks to counter it. If they never get slugged it's a wasted slot.
Nerfing unbreakable would be just as reckless as the nerf to ruin. It's would be a workaround that doesn't address the actual issue and screws over the players that use it.
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Nothing wrong with Unbreakable.
It's a strong perk, but that's okay because perks are supposed to be strong.
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Let me use my psychic powers.
You had a bad game, you slugged everyone and you were chasing the last guy thinking "eeeezzz 4k, gg wp" and a guy picked himself up, picked everyone else up, finished the last gen and everyone escaped (or maybe you killed one).
Then you came here to complain about a perk that, up until now, nobody in this thread commented like "yeah, you're right, unbreakable is OP".
Am I right?
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If everyone is good then Unbreakable is probably best survivor perk as killer has to slug to apply any kind of pressure.
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No....
Why do these stupid a$s discussions even exist?
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The fact is survivors can counter everything killer do. They only need to do gens.
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what's this? a perk doing it's job give a strong advantage against a strategy that makes the game difficult to win? how dare they
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"If" being the operative word. If it comes into play, and if the killer can't recover the lost pressure, it can turn a game around.
The rest of the time, it's pretty much useless. I've been a long-time fan of Unbreakable, and in 70% of my games, I don't even use it. And that's the entire point - it's meant to be really good when you do get to use it, because most of the time, you don't. The risk balances out the reward.
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this smells like bait lol
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Nah, its ok. Its DS+Unbreakable that needs to be changed. Actually, only DS needs a change.
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It wastes an entire perk slot for one POTENTIAL use.
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Unbreakable requires them to be slugged long enough to recover fully, not really sure why you are complaining. Its a one time use perk that is very situational, you saying that it worked so its too op is rubbish and more than likely you just are upset you didn't get a 4k.
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Unbreakable is a very annoying perk tbf. More than ever. If killers don't slug they don't win, and now everyone and their mother is running a perk that directly counters the one playstyle that seems to work right now. It's just dumb that this game has so many of those "you do X, so I do Y" things. Perks and items that only exist to counter 1 specific thing. Like how there are still so many things in this game that only exist to counter Trapper's ability.
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That's why "Unbreakable" is meta right now. Slugging. I stopped using IF on my nurse because of that.
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I mentioned that in my post, you didnt read it then... thats insane how many ppl refuse to read a post and answer after that xD
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I lose maybe 1 or 2 games out of 20 because of unbreakable and that is totally fine because losing is a part of the game and of every game. When I play swf we use 2 unbreakables and we get too many escapes without any efforts just because of unbreakable. We already finish all gens in 5-7min and if the Killer manages to slug some to ensure some kills or apply pressure, we completly turn around his entire game by just 1 unbreakable and manage to escape most of the time.
I am playing more survivor then Killer and I made this post of the view of a swf cuz that is just rediciouless. But since you are somehow triggered and try to make fun of me you will not understand this anyway and just try to insult me anyway with a passive aggresive comment so just keep going :)
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Hm I manage to use unbreakalbe at the half of my survivor games^^ Sure most of the time I dont turn the entire game with it, because sometimes I am the only one who is slugged but still, I manage to use unbreakable far more then you mentioned. Are you playing in swf aswell or solo?
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Yeah agree but thats kinda hard as oni since the Killer is designed to slug :/
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To have something to counter something specific is okey to have in the game. The problem is, you have to put in a downside or requirement to blanace the strong benefit out. I dont complain about noed or other perks since they have their downsides already in. Unbreakable has none and that is not okey in my opinion.
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Say it too pop goes the weasel where 3 gens are finished at your first hook most likely and maybe the last 2 gens that are getting worked on are on the other side of the map. Say it too noed where you can cleanse all 5 totems. There are more examples for sure. My point is, there are many perks that may come not in action for the entire game, and as Killer it hurts even more because you are 4 perks vs 12.
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I should clarify I suppose, I have a lot of opportunities to use Unbreakable that I don't take, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because for all I know there may come a point later in the game when I really need it, and I want to be able to use it if that point comes and not have wasted it already. Secondly, because as long as I haven't used Unbreakable to get myself up yet, I can use it to recover to 99% so that teammates who come to rescue me can literally just give me a single tap to heal me.
The reason I didn't mention that in the first place, and only talked about the times it has actually saved my life, is because the discussion appeared to be mostly about the perk's use in clutch situations, rather than just as a means of getting up without assistance any time you're slugged (which in my opinion is a waste of the perk and not using it to its full advantage, and therefore definitely not a problem).
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Yeah oni got pretty weak after the ruin nerf sadly.
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If you read my posts, it's pretty clear that I am in favor of more killer buffs, but even I don't have a problem with unbreakable, and here's why. Slugging is fine when used as intended, one or two gens left and most survivors on death hook, but I've seen killers that love to abuse slugging from the get go. They want a 4K 5 gen Brutal killer game that's over in 5 minutes, which is just as bad as the gen rushers.
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Unbreakable is not the problem. Probably your team runs adrenaline, DS, Borrowed time, Dead Hard/SB/BL, probably toolboxes, probably map and keys sometimes, probably optimize gen times "keep repairing guys, he's with me", you use discord to tell each other "hey! the hatch is inside killer's shack". When the killer is chasing the last guy "the gate behind the main building is opened, come and we'll bodyblock". You probably coordinate rescues like "take a Hit and I'll rush to rescue with BT" or stuff like that. A lot of information and advantages that a solo player wouldn't have access to.
But somehow you think unbreakable is the problem. I run unbreakable as part of my default build as solo player since... forever. I think it's balanced, I don't get to use it much, maybe 1 out of every 4-5 matches, it's a great perk to surprise the killer, spice up the match, and it's not toxic as DS (how many of your party run DS?).
Unbreakable is fine, has anyone in this thread even said it is not? or are you the only one?
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Yeah get ye, how you discribed, I meant when the perks comes in clutch. My point was that, that Killers only have 1 comparable perk like unbreakable that can be a gamechanger but is situational and that is Bloodwarden. But bloodwarden has 2 requirements and also a counterplay to it. You need to hook someone while the gates are open. The counterplay is just leave before the Killer hooks the person. While ubreakable has none of these things I mentioned, thats why I made this entire post. I dont find it fair that a situational perk like unbreakable (even though it will not come in use alot) has NO downsides or requirements compared to all other situational perks (Said perk Bloodwarden).
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I got your point with the swf and that is true. But you didnt got my point what I wanted to tell with this post, maybe it was my bad wording or you didnt understood it. Lemme cearify. I have nothing against situational perks that can come into clutch and carry alot there such as Bloodwarden, I personally love this perk and its a ton of fun when it works. But situational perks like Bloodwarden have huge requirements or downsides to justifiy such a powefull effect. For Bloodwarden you need to hook someone while the gates are open, go to a gate and open it by yourself cuz most of the time survivors 99 gates as we all know. Then you need to hook that survivor and then you have the perk active, while you try to do this entire process survivors could go pick up the slugged one or run out of the gate. Then even though, you have to be lucky that the end game timer is already really low to be even more deadly.
So as you can see, in this example bloodwarden has alot of requirements and preperation while unbreakable with a simiular strong benefit has none of all of that. --> You get downed and then you just hold M1. Now its your choice if you pick yourself up, without any risk, effort or planing. You just wait for a good oppurtinity and there you go. That is my problem <--
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One could make the argument that Unbreakable is too strong, but I would be very cautious about making such an argument on the basis of comparing it directly to killer perks or mechanics, since that's an inherently flawed premise. Killers are not and never have been designed as an equivalent to survivors, and neither have any of their perks or mechanics. The two roles are different on such a fundamental level that it's pretty much impossible to compare like with like when debating the balance between the two. So the fact that killers don't have an equivalent to Unbreakable is not only to be expected but also largely irrelevant. Point being, there may be other reasons why Unbreakable is problematic, but the fact that there is no killer equivalent is not one of them.
Having said that, I would personally argue that Unbreakable has counterplay in the same way that any other hidden perk (Blood Warden included) does - you play on the assumption that they have it, or suffer the consequences. The counter to Unbreakable, similarly to the counter to Blood Warden, is to simply not give them a chance to use it. For the record, I'm not saying it's a good counter - largely for the reasons you mentioned above about the necessity for slugging in certain scenarios - but it is a counter, and should in fairness be recognised as such.
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Hook them, it only has one purpose and it barely comes into play.
Stop crying bc you were too greedy for the 4k
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I did read it, it is still a counter even if it isn’t a reliable one.
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Pop goes the weasel is based on killer doing their job. It can be used all game. It's high reward, if you play your role right (as per emblems, hook, leave, kick gen, dont camp).
NOED is based on survivors doing their jobs (bones). It can down up to 4 people and gives a speed boost. It's high risk v reward (if survivors do bones, you have 3 perks).
Unbreakable is based on a survivor wasting a perk slot, and hoping the killer puts off their job (hooking you) to chase someone else, so that you can get ONE use out of it. High risk, very little reward (may never use it, only one use, based on killers plays, not yours).
The difference is the others downsides, are just not downsides, they're based on people playing correctly/poorly for their own perks/life.
Unbreakable is you putting your life in the chance that a killer just leaves you on the ground. The downside is not being able to control if or when you even get to use it, and having 3 perks all game sometimes.
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You're right. I wouldn't mind if Unbreakable made you broken for a little while, but you could recover even faster. Or you saw the aura of the person who got up using Unbreakable. Just throwing ideas put there, I really don't know what to think about this perk. On one hand I can see why survivors run it because slugging is dumb and unfun but on the other hand it can potentially win games by resetting so much pressure the killer worked for.
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