Hatch should be permanently sealed once the killer closes it.
EDIT: Some good points have been made, I'd like to change my proposal to this:
Hatch should never become visible until all generators have been completed, and if the hatch is opened early with a key, closing it should remove it for the remainder of the match.
If a survivor uses a key to open the hatch early, and killer then closes it, or if the killer sacrifices 3 survivors, and beats the survivor to finding the hatch, there's no reason for the hatch to still be available.
Closing hatch, either from an early key opening or from it opening itself for last survivor, automatically powers the exit gates, giving all remaining survivors an excellent escape option, there's no reason for the hatch to become available again on account of an item (either found during the match or brought in) or because a survivor has died, after hatch has already been closed.
Hatch is, without the presence of keys, a huge source of frustration to killers. It can very often provide free escapes to survivors unless extreme caution is taken (leaving one survivor bleeding out for a minute or more to down the last remaining survivor) and even then, will sometimes spawn in an unfortunate place and allow an escape. I understand that the hatch is, to some degree, necessary for the health of the game.
Hatch with keys starts to get a little annoying. Survivors can suddenly escape, completely bypassing up to 2 generators, if 2 survivors where killed already, and make some of the killer's perks (remember me, blood warden, NOED) have NO IMPACT on a game, while also denying perks the killer brought to handle generators (Surge, Thrilling Tremors, Pop Goes The Weasel, Discordance, Surveillance, Tinkerer, Bitter Murmur) and Plague's Iridescent Seal the value they would normally get. I feel that there could definitely be some work done with how keys and the hatch are handled, but maybe it out to wait until a later time.
Hatch after the killer has already closed it is ridiculous. The killer has already lost a survivor to hatch, AND at least one other survivor has killed or escaped through the exit gates (which, if they weren't already, have been powered again). The killer doesn't deserve to have another survivor escape for free on them.
At the absolute minimum, hatch should never open itself after the killer has already closed it, and, preferably, hatch should become completely unavailable once the killer has closed it.
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You bring key, I bring mori.
It's just that easy.
Also, "balanced" in this game is considered as 2 survs surviving and 2 survs getting sacrificed. So, while you might find it frustrating that - apart from everything you wrote about keys - one surv could escape through the hatch, it's actually healthy to the balance of the game. Not taking into account keys of course. So, in this regard, having one last survivor escaping through the hatch while you've sacrificed or mori'ed the other 3 could be considered as perfectly fine maybe even unbalanced.
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Even if we are trying to balance for 2/2, being able to re-open hatch doesn't make much sense. Hatch being keyed and closed means that AT LEAST one survivor has already escaped, AND that gates are powered, giving everyone else a decent chance at survival. Having hatch be able to be opened repeatedly is just a huge middle finger to the killer - they can't really do anything to actually prevent survivors from escaping.
As far as getting 2/2 as an average, the killer doesn't get any sort of last-chance mechanic to get a kill on a survivor after three have left via gates.
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I disagree.
It should never be a free kill once closing the hatch.
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I agree but only if the Killer has already closed it. It’s unfair for the Killer to go through the entire map, find the hatch first and close it, only for the survivor to just walk up to it without a care in the world, open it with key and escape.
I’ve had it happen to me with a Jane who literally stood still behind me after I closed the hatch, stare at me as if saying “lol ok” and then just open it in front of me.
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It’s not a free kill but it’s another form of pressure a killer can use and it’s unfair that someone can escape and then the killer closes it and then survivors can just ignore that pressure
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This is why both need a rework. They are unhealthy for both sides in the game.
Keys should have a long timer (20 seconds maybe) and moris should only work if you hook every survivor atleast once.
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There’s a lot of complaining about what is and what isn’t fair in this game. Who said life is fair? There’s a ton of things in this game that give people an edge no matter which side you’re on. It just depends on what you decide to bring into the game for perks, items and add ons. And just because you bring a key into the game it doesn’t guarantee that you’re going to live long enough to use it.
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The key is designed to open the hatch. You wanna design it to where it's not supposed to do what its meant for?
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1/3rd of keys can't open the hatch ;)
On a more serious note, though, YES, the key is meant to open the hatch. The issue I'm taking is that it should only happen once per game. If the killer has CLOSED THE HATCH, meaning it was ALREADY OPEN AT SOME POINT, than yes, they key should no longer do that. The key allows survivors to bypass exit gates, and even sometimes 1 or 2 generators, there's no reason it should also bypass the killer finding the hatch after it's been opened and closing it.
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I mean, as the game is now you can still get out through gates once hatch is closed, and killer has no way to counterplay against a survivor with a key going for hatch, as the interaction is shorter than the attack cooldown.
It's a far cry from a "free kill" without a key present, and it's close to a free escape when one is.
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Re-opening a hatch that has been previously closed is ok imho. The big problem with keys is when 2 or 3 survivors make an early exit, not when the last survivor uses it to escape.
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keys are part of the game, just accept it.
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Black ward or secret offering = DC in loading screen.
There's your mori champ.
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Yeah, I don't see many people insta-dc'ing upon seeing a black ward or secret offering in loading screen. Apparently, we've made fundamentally different experiences playing with or against either.
I am playing much more survivor than killer. And if I bring a key, I won't ever be mad about the killer bringing a mori. :D
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So are Mori's and facecamping. That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the game better.
That's fair, if 3 people are dead, I can understand a key coming into play.
Maybe a revised proposal: The hatch does not become visible until all generators are completed or only 1 player is left alive. If the hatch is opened with a key, and then closed, the hatch is removed for the rest of the match.
This way, it doesn't affect 1v1s unless the hatch has allready been opened and closed (meaning there's been plenty of time to pressure an exit gate), and it also removes the most frustrating aspect of the key: Having one (or two, if two players died) generators completely bypassed.
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It's fine as is
until ebonies are deleted I am fine with keys
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"The hatch does not become visible until all generators are completed or only 1 player is left alive." This could improve the gameplay for solo survivors - no more hatch camping.
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There's a little bit more to it...
I have one very fun game as example of key interactivity.
1 guy died, 1 gen left to do, hatch spawned. Surv with a map finds the hatch, but gets injured in the process. Surv with a key runs to the hatch, right to the killer, killer sees them, hits them, but doesn't follow immediately, because he knows that he has no chance here, he looks out for another surv that is still around injured. He see them running to the hatch and intercepts them, and THEN he closes the hatch. Even though 1 gen is still unfinished, EGC starts and gates get powered. Killer picks up the downed surv and hooks them... but doesn't run to the gate to prevent escape of 4th surv, because, guess what, when there is only one surv left hatch opens. So he waits for a hatch to open (by itself this time around) to close it AGAIN and then flips the coin, which gate to approach first.
It's a whole chain of BS to deal with after use of a key. Probably EGC shouldn't start if hatch gets closed with more than one surv left. Probably hatch shouldn't open by itself when EGC is already in progress. But that's my personal opinion.
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Agreed, the moment a key enters the game before all gens are done, the killer is put on the receiving end of nothing fun or really fair. (Not that this isn't the only unfair thing, Mori's definitely need some... Changes...)
This change also brings SWF and solo closer in line, no more can a SWF can coordinate an easy 2/3 player escape with 2/1 generators left . AND it doesn't muck with the achievement.
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Soooo...what's a key for? For unlocking something...?
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Yup! Yup, it is. (Well, two of the keys, anyways).
Read the post!
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Moris are apart of the game, just accept it.
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I am ok if a hatch can be open by a key, but hatch should auto close it after 1 survivor escape through it, if another survivor want to use the hatch, they had to use their own key to open again.
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I mean, that IS true. Ultimately, I feel like changes to Moris are definitely in order, maybe being able to kill 1/all survivors after you've gotten 4 hooks total. I'm trying to address keys here, though by all means, if you want to start a productive thread on Moris we could go into detail on how those could be improved!
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Wanna know what the hatch needs;
- To be removed from the game. It's a terrible decision to respond to a player taking the game hostage by giving that same player a free win mechanic.
- Key's shouldn't spawn in chests. Broken key's without add-ons (even if your using the perk Ace in the Hole) can stay.
- Key's should only allow the person who used the key to escape - no one else. (Everyone needs to have their own Key).
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We need startup animations.
- Survivors need to actually sit down to make the Gen progressing.
- Their arms must be in the chest to make the Search progressing.
- The switch need to be pulled down to make Gate progressing.
- Hatch needs at least finishing 5sec animation or so to make the Hatch opens.
Just as they have to finish 3sec animation to complete Unhooking.
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Startup animations are definitely important, especially with how iffy grabs are since we got dedicated servers, hook interrupts have been next to impossible.
I agree that hatch is... yeah, it shouldn't be in the game.
Ultimately, though, that's outside the scope of something we can hope for: There are a lot of achievements tied to hatch, and BHVR hates making changes that mean they have to change an achievement as well. Apparently it's really hard to do with Playstation?
We have to take baby steps. Balance what we can without too drastic of a change.
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