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Entitlement
I never post YouTube links to channels since I don't like looking like I'm trying to kiss the behind of a youtuber. However after seeing this video I had to make an exception. Please watch the video because it explains its point quite well. If you don't read the rest of this I understand, I'm just giving my opinion on the matter.
The amount of times people who complain about tunneling, camping, slugging, t-bagging, gen rushing or body blocking is absurd. It blows my mind how I'm playing against a red rank player and they don't understand how this game works.
Example: As a survivor I have a gen nearly done. The killer has moments ago just hooked a survivor and is coming towards my gen. I don't want to risk pop goes the weasel so I take the hit and finish the gen. I then get downed later and face camped for being toxic. They also message me after the game complaining about abusing an infinite even though they have bamboozle. If the played survivor at high ranks they would see why I did what I did.
Another example: I down a survivor and slug them. There are 2 gens left and 3 survivors left. One of the 3 survivors has a key they brought into the trial. I know that if I hook this survivor I've just downed the hatch will spawn. I decide to slug them, I then find the survivor with the key and down them. After hooking them (they were on death hook) they message me after the game complaining about slugging and how I'm getting reported. This is a rank 3 survivor btw. They are nearly the best possible rank a survivor can be in this game, which should suggest they have mastered this game but they aren't any better than a green rank in all honestly. I explained what why I slugged in that game but they just didn't want to listen.
If a survivor does a gen in my face I understand why they would. If the killer starts slugging because I have a key I understand why. If I hook a survivor and I check the last 3 gens and see they have no progress, I'd hope the survivors would understand why id return to the hook.
I don't think enough people understand why killers or survivors play the way they do. Honeslty I hope more people try to learn and understand both sides properly so they can see why players may play a certain way. This is a post to not try and cause any fight but to try and lessen the toxicity within this community.
Comments
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Yes, entitlement is very strong for a lot of players in the game. Killers shouldn't let survivors go to be nice and survivors shouldn't gift killers free kills. I don't understand where the mentality that one side owes the other something in this game.
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I think you only see stuff like that among people that are just "chill".
After enough trials you stop caring about escaping or killing and then the game becomes more about the strategy of gen repairs/defence and chase mind games.
You simply cannot guarantee a win every single game so some folks like myself worry less about the end and more about the journey.
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All I got from this is that Scott got (mildly) salty because a dumbass expected him to play by imaginary rules.
Does make a few good points, though I rarely see killers complain to the same degree of survivors. Most just want a game that isn't over in 4 ######### minutes.
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Killers absolutely complain just as much as survivors do. Both can't learn to take a loss or accept being outplayed.
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Complaining about games being 4 minutes long isn't being outplayed and you know it.
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If they're very consistently 4 minutes long that's a you problem buddy. And like I said, killers do complain as much as survivors. Literally anything either side does is complained about. Tbagging, clicking, slugging, camping, perk usage. It's sad.
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im not saying that killer entitlement doesn't exist but survivor entitlement is more common but sometimes its not their fault. i think that some of it comes from lack of information, the killer experiences everything that happens in the match as they are always involved. a survivor however only partially sees what is going on, even in scotts video this is the case.
the survivor doesn't know what scott is doing, all he sees is that scott shows up near the basement as he was running for the rescue thus concludes that he must be camping. sure this can be attributed to that survivors low skill level but the point still stands.
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Right so I'm the problem?
Not the maps with the stupid buildings that have yet to been fixed. Not the killers like Clown that completely suck.
It's just me. What wisdom, truly with your knowledge I can 4k every game perkless.
Besides I play survivor nowadays buddy.
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If I don't escape with at least 30000 points as survivor every game or 4k with killer every game something's wrong and it needs fixed asap.
That's just the way it is.
Oh also to get that 4k I have to camp every survivor from first hook to death for something i perceive as toxic because they did not play by my rulebook and its their fault for not memorizing it before the match.
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Camping is trashy and makes anyone who does it trash, period. I do play both sides. I NEVER camp no matter what the other side does. Unless there are other survivors around the hook, I'm going to leave and go look for others and stop gens. If I'm chasing someone and the hooked survivor gets rescued, I'm not going back to that hook. I will go back if they get saved and I havent found someone, but even then I'm going to go after the savior and not the unhooked. Unless the on unhooked is still near the area and I see no one else. Depends on what I'm trying to do if I'll slug the second to last survivor. Sometimes I'll just go on and hook and if the last one gets the hatch then oh well. I usually get 3 and 4k games, almost always at lease a 2k. I'm a rank 5 and play against mostly red and purple ranks. I just dont see the point in trying to make the game a horrible experience for others by slugging and taking them out the game so quick. Ad survivor, I only bodyblock to try and help a teammate if he's being carried. I don't use flashlights and I will throw a pallet down if I know it can by me a little more time. I will teabag to try and get the killer's attention only of he's been tunneling a teammate for so long or he's played douchy all game then I will at the gates. I do run keys sometimes. And as a killer, I don't get mad about keys being used and feel they don't need a nerf. I failed as a killer if they got to use it.
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thats nice and all but doesn't seem relevant to the discussion.
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Yes. You are the problem if it is happening to you pretty often. I understand it happens here and there, but if it's often you need to realize it may be you.
If you're wanting to go in every game perkless and expecting to 4k, I'm not sure what to tell you other than the fact you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage.
It's no coincidence that these type of games are far and few in between for good players.
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Did you miss the part where I said I play survivor?
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Doesn't change the fact that if you or other players are consistently having 4 minute games it's extremely likely it's your own doing.
My point still stands though, no side is better than the other when it comes to complaining.
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No ######### it's because of my own doing, I keep repairing the ######### generators.
What the ######### are you even trying to say?
"4 minute games are a you problem you survivor gamer."
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I'm speaking from the standpoint of playing as a killer. I'm saying that if someone plays killer and consistently has 4 minute games, it's likely their fault. That's literally what I've been saying in every comment. Regardless of the fact that you play survivor, this has been my point.
Also, I don't see why you feel the need to be so nasty. Don't understand why you can't just discuss normally.
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I think what caused most of the entitlement was the piss poor decisions made by dev's when making changes. My two key examples being the introduction of the hatch mechanic, and when they do things like when they wrote the doctor rework and ruin nerf.
The hatch mechanic was created to deal with a very big problem at the time. Survivors were effectively taking the game hostage by hiding instead of doing gen's when the game went sour for them. Taking the game hostage till the killer either just let them win by going afk, and they finish the remaining gens and leave before the Killer returned, or the killer was forced to DC. BHVR's response to that was to introduce the Hatch mechanic, so that if you are the last remaining survivor instead of just hiding you could just look for the hatch and escape for free.
They responded to players taking the game hostage, by giving those same players a free win mechanic. Literally just telling them they were entitled to the win even if the perform unsportsmanlike behaviour and/or abuse exploits in the game.
Then when they write updates: for example the Doctor/Hex: Ruin update, they write it specifically only to the survivors side of fun. Literally telling them - it's their fun is what the dev's are focusing on. IF they are not having fun, then there something wrong with the game. The other sides doesn't matter.
You can see moves like this all the way back to when the director literally told players who played Killer that if they were not having fun or getting frusterated to just take a break from the game. Actually just telling their players that they would sooner see them leave the game (for only a time), than to make the game more in that sides favor.
It can even be seen in the changes they make. They are fast to make big changes to killers, regardless of how detrimental it might be, but they very carefully tiptoe around making changes for survivors. The entitlment is so strong that making anywhere near a big change to survivors will have this entire forum up in flames. The mere mention of changing DS makes many users just swell up in frusteration.
I'm sure you are about to tell me "Killers can act entitled too", which I understand that. Though when a killer is showing "entitlement" they tend to have good reason to. Killing 3 surviors before they even finish their 2nd or 3rd gen, it's not "entitlement" expecting you're going to get the 4k that round. The chance of 1 survivor completing 2-3 gens without ever getting caught is incredibly slim. However then the hatch opens, and the survivor get's to escape for free after the whole group of survivors and herself failed at completing their objective, and the survivor acts like they deserved the win - that's entitlement. Doing nothing for something and expecting it - is entitlement.
If BHVR decided to change how they communicate information to the players that would greatly help subdue a lot of the entitlment in the game. Also if they started to make balance changes that didn't so strongly favor only one side, or started to be more careful with changes they make to Killers to even look like they are being careful not to ruin the fun of playing that character.
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Mate, this is how I discuss normally. Don't take it to heart.
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The part about being threatened via reporting.
As if reporting someone for breaking an 'unwritten rule' is punishable. LOL
Survivor rulebook page 1, section 1-A "Don't tunnel me." RME
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Scott makes a super strong point about hypocrites though. Like I've played against players, on either side, that will do super scummy things. But then when the tables are turned and you do the SAME EXACT THING TO THEM they get seriously salty and call you trash. Absolutely no self awareness. The guy in the video is a perfect example, he complained about Scott camping and then Scott goes back just 1 day into his Twitch VOD and finds a game of him as Plague face camping a dude. Like at least when I play scummy I acknowledge it.
Had a game recently as Spirit where a Meg brought a key. I generally have a rule that key = mori, so I put on an Ebony (since I have like 30 of them, I only have maybe 8 Ivory because they are actually rarer), catch her second then tunnel her off the hook and mori with 4 gens left. The rest of the game was a breeze, not because someone was dead but because I could tell these were not red rank survivors. I felt kinda bad, I played SUPER fair with the rest and went for 3 hooks no tunnels, only mori'd the last guy for fun because the game was over when I caught him anyway. Got a message from the Meg thinking it was salt he said...
"######### this key challenge. That's 10 keys used I will never get it :("
I felt REALLY bad. This guy was like rank 7 or 8. It was clear he wasn't very good at the game. He got like 1500 BP because I killed him so fast. I basically told him sorry dude I bring mori's for keys, nothing personal and no hard feelings. He kept on about the challenge, and I'm like "had I known you guys were all low ranks I wouldn't have done that, but there is no way for me to know and I've been nice to players with keys in the past only for it to bite me in the ass later."
He was actually very understanding. I gave him some pointers for the challenge, specifically that he should run Plunderer's and Left Behind because bringing a key into the game makes him a target. He said he didn't have Left Behind but he will try Plunderer's, and I said you can get a key once every 3 games or so but you have to rush the chests at the start. He was happy with that info because he didn't realize that would work. Hope he got his challenge.
Point is, I did something really scummy to this guy and basically apologized to him, explaining why I had to. He was cool with it, which most people aren't. But people need to have some awareness of the situation. If I bring a key I half expect to get mori'd. I'm not mad at the killer honestly. It sucks yes, but they did what they had to do. I have that awareness. And the problem with toxicity is too many people lack that awareness, which just makes them more toxic over time.
It's like that whole thing where if you work in customer service that you put a mirror behind you, because people are less likely to be pricks if they see themselves acting like pricks.
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The video scott made should be added as the intro to the game.
Like he said, people in this game lack a lot of empathy for the other side, its all easier to blame it all on the other side for all the things you do wrong.
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Nah, if a match only takes 4 minutes, that is a problem with the game. That shouldn't be happening even if the killer was afk. That being said, you're right, it should not be happening consistently, as some maps are much easier for killers to patrol, than others. And, yes, both sides complain, though some complaints are valid, while others are clearly not.
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The entitlement is definitely crazy. I played a round of billy, got a 4k, then in the end chat a survivor called me toxic for killing them
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That video hit the nail on the head. Granted. I used to straight up hate Scott Jund when I only played killer because I always thought he was survivor biased when it came to balance. When I started playing more survivor and became a 50/50 player, I started to realized how biased and ignorant of the other side "mains" can be. Mains are bad for the game full stop, and should never be involved in discussing balance for the other side. Since it's hard to have empathy for a side of the game you never touch, which creates entitlement and eventually resentment. I feel like the healthiest thing for this game would be for more people to try both sides.
Since the more you play survivor, the less things like flashlight clicking and teabagging will bother you. You also start to realize that things like DS and BT are pretty mandatory in solo queue. And the more you play killer, the more you'll realize that that Trapper you accused of "tunneling you off hook" literally had no other plays at that point in the match. The Us v. Them mentality has never helped this game in any capacity. Scott's video should be pinned on the forum.
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Cool.
Let's all listen to the streamer because he is a streamer. He said stuff no one else said or thought. I'm enlightened. Lol.
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Yeah, playing both sides make ppl understand better each role.
My 5 cents is, never lose your time explaining to a rude or toxic pos-game chat why you did something, its just a waste of time. Thankfully in PS4 I can block (or report if offensive) the player and leave the message group for good. Save your breath for gentle people, they may hear you. Or else, you will be just feeding the "trolls".
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Be careful! You'll cut yourself with all that edge....
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Consider that a red rank as one role could be rank 20 in the other.
I don't get why people don't play both sides, it makes you way better and makes a bad match much less frustrating. Keep fighting the good fight against toxicity.
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He does bring some good points, invalidating the point of an streamer just because he is an streamer is dumb
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Except half of those ''outplays'' comes from the game being survivor-sided. Oh no! I'm being outskilled by a survivor who is abusing this god-window or broken structure that I literally cannot do anything against besides press W and hope I get in a hit in the next 2 minutes.
Just one example.
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People really could use a bit more empathy for the side they play less. Map size is definitely an issue for killers. Keys are a crappy mechanic (though it's not our fault the devs decided to lock two challenges behind a challenge requiring you to use those damned things). God-loops aren't fun for killers either. On the other side, being camped isn't any fun either. Nor is being tunneled. And Mori's aren't any fun either when 90% of killers tunnel you straight off your first hook and take you out of the game.
If more people played both sides, I think things would be a little better. But it'd also help if the devs stopped having challenges that were frustrating for BOTH sides. I mean use two keys? Sacrifice four survivors in the basement? What's next "Facecamp as the Cannibal until 2 survivors die on their first hook!"? "Hook the same survivor twice in a row within 60 seconds." "Get into a locker, and use DS on the killer 10 times." "While the killer is inside the exit gate, crouch ten times in a row before leaving the trial"
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hahaha i didn't see your post...I just made a post about jund's video 🤦♂️
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I have a similar rule to you. If I see two or more toolboxes or a key I bring a mori. I remember someone complaining to me after the game about this because I used a mori when I "shouldn't have". They got disturbed ward as a map and after mori-ing a survivor after 1 gen done I choose to 3 hook the rest of them. The game ended with them only getting that one gen done. What I thought I saw was a 4 man swf because there was 4 Kate's with 3 toolboxes but apparently it was just a coincidence.
They were saying it showed I had no skill yet they brought a brand new part in a very easy gen rush game. Survivors seem to be more entitled than killer but I think both sides have a bunch of entitled people.
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I had a person complain to me because I only used Billy's chainsaw to down people lol
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It's ok lad lol I tried to check if someone made a thread before I made mine. I'm happy that this thread went well and people didn't look at it as me trying to kiss the behind of a streamer lol
I don't think many read my message (tl;dr) lol but as long as the video was watched I'm happy.
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This just shows and proves again how disgusting and antisocial most humans and society is or rather became to.
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