Survivors should be able to pick themselves up perkless
I have had way too many games were survivors were slugged and left to be bled out. Sure, not all killers are like that, but the fact that there are killers who try to force survivors to either disconnect, which they cant do without recieving the penalty(so being forced to stay 2 minutes in an unplayable game, which should be bannable for keeping the game hostage, even though its "just 2 minutes" regardless of the fact it can take up to 20 minutes to find a game, meaning you have to spend up to 42 minutes before you can actually play a playable game).
Normally, any action that has little risk shouldnt have a massive reward. Its why camping, even though annoying, doesnt really give that much reward. Doing a pallet drop is a bit riskier, because it can still allow the killer to hit you or you happen to remove a really good late game pallet really early, which will definitely bite you in your ass later on, however, if you happen to pull off the stun, you buy some time that will allow you to probably not need that pallet in the first place and often it would be more efficient for killers to ignore the dropped pallet etc.
Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away, but any human with ears should be able to easily locate them again as Iron Will doesnt have an effect on the dying state(and Stridor, even though it should be like Iron Will, DOES apply to the dying state), but its another perk that would otherwise be required to make slugging risky.
But ofcourse, it shouldnt be too easy for survivors to do so, my reasoning here would be, that if the downed survivor leaves the killer terror radius, should be able to pick oneself up after a tough skill check(not Overcharge tough, more like Brand New Part tough, especially if Lullaby is applied), and if they happen to miss that skill check, the killer gets a notification and their recovery is reset to 50%. That way, slugging is a bit more risky for the massive reward it otherwise grants. Either that, or at least let 2 downed survivors who are next to each other be able to pick each other up(which would be a lot stronger than being able to pick yourself up with a skill check).
Sure, its a complicated solution which could just as easily be countered with a perk, but as many, MANY killers will tell you, perks or addons shouldnt be required to counter another perk(check the OoO discussion, you'll find a lot of killers basically claiming that). So survivors shouldnt require unbreakable to counter slugging(I guess you could put in no mither there too, but no killer would leave someone with no mither on the floor). And just to repeat, this is only meant to add some risk to slugging. Unbreakable would still be a lot more reliable as you wont require a skill check, hell, I'd say No Mither would still be more reliable. It also shouldnt counter a Haunted Grounds or NOED slugfest as its not meant to basically be a free pick-me-up. Perhaps the way I described it could require a bit more of a downside, perhaps even recieving the broken status for a minute after picking yourself up, all I want is just a slight risk for killers to leave a survivor behind while still heavily patrolling that area to slug the rest.
SOME EDITS AND SUMMARY: After some insights from some people and other people being simply unable to see im trying to make it as uninteresting to do. I'll try to update this whenever someone gives a better idea to making it even more uninteresting to use under normal gameplay. Just as unhooking yourself would be a last resort if no one else is capable of unhooking you.
- If downed and OUTSIDE the killer terror radius after some time, the survivor gets the option to get an incredibly hard skill check(BNP skill check, not overcharge, perhaps even tinier).
- If FAILED, regresses the recovery to 0-25%, notifies the killer of your location in the case you moved and the fact that in about 30-40 seconds, you'll probably try again, giving the killer the option to keep on pursueing while giving the downed person another chance, or in the case that the killer found the hatch anyway, go back, hook the survivor and go back to the hatch to close it.
- If SUCCEEDED, recieve the broken status for the remainder of the match.
- If this were to be implicated, it should also give a DC the same amount of time to process as a normal hook sacrifice would, giving the killer time to walk back to the hatch, rather than the survivor DC'ing and giving his friend a free hatch.
This is all to make it as risky or even riskier than unhooking yourself, without having too much of a negative impact on the killer side. Meaning that realistically, it would only be used if there is no other way of you getting up. Personally, I myself rather see the entire game changed with more fresh mechanics so that matches like this dont even exist, but as long as these type of matches exist, mechanics like this would be neccesary to reduce toxicity overall. I'd be open to try and suggest something for OoO genrushers, as I think I kinda found a solution for that too(requiring the obsession to be healthy, perhaps even if killers look at the OoO user in that the OoO user cant see the killer for 15-30 seconds), but for now, im focussing on this specific source of toxicity and boring gameplay. Saying its a free Unbreakable is not seeing what im trying to do here.
Comments
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I don’t know man, it kinda sounds like a skill-based kobe..
This would probably make the game miserable for killers at high-ranks imo, it could work for low ranks though, since slugging isn’t really an issue there.
I think the game just needs to move out of this meta and into something new and fresh, not just slugging vs decisive strike
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Just a post-postage note: feel free to add in anything that would be low risk - high reward. Be it survivor or killer. The only real low risk thing survivor side I can think of right now is entering a locker as you dont leave any sound. Which I think is kinda ridiculous, the realistic reaction should be that a survivor should be ever so slightly audible from outside. And slugging was the only real low risk normal mechanic(ebony mori is also a bit too low of a risk, but I already posted about that before).
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So first off, you are aware that when slugged another survivor can pick you up right? That's the risk killers take when slugging. When you say something like this:
"Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away, but any human with ears should be able to easily locate them again as Iron Will doesnt have an effect on the dying state(and Stridor, even though it should be like Iron Will, DOES apply to the dying state), but its another perk that would otherwise be required to make slugging risky"
it pretty much destroys your argument as it looks like you don't understand how the game works.
Second, you seem to have very little clue why killers slug, it's not a "massive reward" as no killer camps a slug, we slug to find someone else to down to usually hook at that point. Killers don't slug because they're trying to be jerks, at least most of the time, it's designed to slow down generator progression as it requires another survivor to get off a generator to come pick you up, now I've occupied 50% of the survivor team doing something other than generators, which gives me some breathing room if generators are going to fast.
Giving survivors essentially a fifth perk as a free unbreakable means killers lose once again, one of the few things they have to slow down generators. Without slugging in any appreciable aspect (as no killer is going to camp you as a slug, so by definition you would be leaving the terror radius and could do a free pick up each time) what you would see is even more killer attrition than you see already.
The OOO discussion is not even remotely close to this. The problem with OOO is not the perk in and of itself, it's that the perk can be combined with SWF and outside communication (not supported in game) to provide information to an entire team as if they all ran OOO, but just one player is.
Bottom line, I'd recommend playing killer or watch some high rank killer streams and you will see more clearly why slugging is a critical part of all killers arsenals, particularly with how generator speeds are currently.
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definitely, and yes, it is a skill based kobe, but requires the killer to be slugging in the first place. I dont see it actually making the game too miserable for high-rank killers, as they might as well simply hook the downed survivor instead because there is more pressure from hooking a survivor. It's just the fact that I had a game, where I was hooked, a teammate was injured and another was being chased while injured. Then the killer injured that survivor and decided to walk all the way across the map to go back to me and slug both me and the other team mate. The killer would have very likely won the game anyway regardless if they picked up that survivor and hooked them in the basement(where he was downed), then walk back and probably still be able to hit both of us and be garantueed to hit someone. At least that way, it feels earned. Slugging only feels earned with Haunted Grounds or NOED as survivors actively had to ######### up to be slugged(which, honestly could be taken into consideration, that when you're exposed you cannot pick yourself up). Or ofcourse the extremely competitive 4-man SWF, they also deserve being slugged if the killer can pull it off. But outside that? It never feels earned or deserved.
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which should be bannable for keeping the game hostage, even though its "just 2 minutes"
Awesome! Now we can ban all those survivors that stay in the exit gates "keeping the game hostage".
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If you don’t have time to wait 120 seconds every few instances this happens; then you shouldn’t be playing this game.
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And you are aware, that slugging often really starts with 2 people already downed and at least 1 more person injured? You cant really call it slugging when you down 2 people at the same time with 2 fully healthy survivors unless you have all survivors exposed(in which case, you earned the slug). If you read on, you would have seen me acknowledge that.
Next to that, this mechanic would be practically useless if someone else was there to pick you up, as, like I said, the downsides of being able to pull it off would NOT be a free unbreakable. It's not a 5th perk by any means, its meant to be the slightest chance for a survivor to pick themselves up when a killer leaves them alone on the ground when otherwise having no reason to, other than wanting a 4k. It's easy as a killer to say that slugging sometimes is neccesary, which I acknowledge, while also ignoring that in quite a lot of games, its very easy to slug 2 people with a 3rd one being close enough to not leave the slugged people and possibly having slugged all 3, and instead of hooking those 3 people actually going to look for the 4th person. THAT is where I suggest this "mechanic" being possible and actually worth taking the risk for.
As for the OoO discussion, yes, its annoying, I agree, but there are addons and a perk that would effectively counter that. Yet people demand more. You cannot counter teamspeak. You simply cant. Even without OoO, a full team of SWF can fairly easily communicate where the killer is, what he is up to etc. OoO might give a more accurate description, but even then, a survivor across the map cannot see exactly what the surroundings are. Its a bit more effective to say the killer is moving left or right, but in those cases you have all the reasons to tunnel the person with OoO. Personally, the only real change to OoO that I would give, is remove the ability to see the killer when not the obsession, making Nemesis a pretty strong counter to it. Not even talking about addons or perks that give blindness to the survivor. My whole point about that, was that killers found it ridiculous to require addons or perks to counter 1 perk. Just like I find it ridiculous 1 perk is required to counter a basic game mechanic. Perks should make it a lot easier to counter or they should be able to counter other perks. Which is why I want to add a TON of risks to being able to pick yourself up, like the tiny skill check, the regression and notification if failed(which lets the killer know that they have 20 more seconds before they could try it again), the potential broken status that would be applied if done alone etc. Just to add a teeny tiny chance that survivors can pick themselves up if left alone too long. Because ######### teammates exist.
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So according to you, the EGC shouldnt be neccesary because those few times survivors took their sweet time to leave the premise to try and make killers dc was fine? Remember? The whole game mechanic that was added to remove the ability for people to basically keep someone hostage for a few minutes? Realistically, it wasnt that much longer either, at most 5 minutes before survivors finally left the premise, which is only 300 seconds. Great to know you dont mind that then, ill ask the devs to reinstate the old ways.
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Well, you can literally do something about that and force them to leave the premise. Nothing is preventing you from going after someone and even getting a hook out of it. Survivors have no way to prevent you from doing anything about it. Hell, you could even have your fun with it too, gain some extra points from pallets, find the hatch and close it. No insta heals really exist anymore, so they cant heal each other up. And if they fail to escape, you get even more points for it.
Slugging doesnt even get close to comparison to that. There is nothing you can really do against it, you wont even get points for it either.
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Um, where did you get this notion that slugging only starts with 2 people down and one injured? There are situations where a killer may slug with only one person down and three people healthy, it's all dependent on generators left up, location of other survivors, and game circumstances. You don't acknowledge this at all in your post, you seem to think slugging only happens in very specific circumstances which is why myself and other posters are trying to educate you and explain that slugging is a tactic used in a variety of situations, which again, you would understand if you played killer at a high level or at least watched some people who played at a high level.
And again, you don't understand the mechanic at all, you just think the killer is slugging with no rhyme or reason. Don't get me wrong, slug builds exist, but you'll know very quickly when it happens as the killer will be running specific perks for the situation (third seal, knockout, deerstalker). And yes, what you are proposing is a free unbreakable, even worse because in your post you make no mention whether this would be one-time use or not.
You seem fixated on actual slug builds, which again have their own inherent risks. Slug builds rely on actually catching all four survivors before slugs can be picked up by other survivors, it requires all unbreakables to be exhausted, it completely gets destroyed by stealth builds as it includes no detection perks, and it often still deals with gen rush, even worse because they don't usually hook and now they have nothing to show for the slugging when everyone pops up with adrenaline on the last generator popping.
But clearly you're too convinced your idea is the smartest thing ever so I'm not going to keep explaining slugging to you.
And as for your ridiculous defense of OOO, again you miss the mark completely. You clearly don't understand nemesis, the only time the obsession changes is when you are pallet stunned, the obsession will just instead gravitate to jungle gyms and window loops if chased, and stick to call outs if not chased. This is not a fix to the situation.
Again, a "tiny" skill check is not a risk to getting picked up, because if you fail so what? You just try again, and to pretend survivors have trouble hitting skill checks is just laughable if you're above rank 10.
Sorry man, you clearly are relatively new to the game and a survivor main, you dealt with a guy slugging for a 4k so now you think we need to "fix" this problem, we don't, certainly not with a free unbreakable for every survivor as a fifth perk.
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Just wait the 4 minutes and 20 seconds
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They should just make flip flop part of the base kit but a bit weaker, that way the killer prevents slugging.
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Again, perhaps I should have been more accurate, as the only times I really have used or have other people seen use the term slugging was in the case where 2 people were downed with a 3rd or even 4th person being on the other side of the map, one or both injured and instead of hooking those 2 people, going to down the other survivors. AKA trying to down everyone. Which really doesnt have that much of a risk, if they dont have unbreakable. The risk of "not hooking someone" isnt really a risk, as you actively choose to not hook someone to down someone else. Thats like saying going to the casino itself is a risk because you might end up spending and losing money. You decide yourself to go to the casino, there never is a risk to accidentally appear in the casino.
Besides, the exact thing you described, wouldnt be something I really consider slugging. Here is more of a case:
2 people are injured, 1 is hooked. 2 people are working on gens while one person(happens to be one of the injured) is going for the unhook. The killer hits the unhooked person(which already makes them a bit of an ass due to the lack of choice there), then they chase the injured person who due to some bad choices ends up downed too. Which alone already slows down the entire game a lot. Then the killer goes to practically camp the people who are downed untill they see someone close and try to hit them, if they run too far then the killer runs back. Still not hooking anyone, even though hooking at this point would realistically be optimal as you would add 2 hook stages and have 2 people hooked relatively close. Then the second injured guy makes a mistake and gets downed, and right before you can fully heal the other person, the killer goes back, hits the person you just healed up and starts tunneling you. There is not a single game mechanic other than perks to even realistically get out of this situation.
Which is why the mechanic I described requires:
The killer having left the premise, being very risky to pull off at the point of even notifying the killer(which would give information that at least 1 person doesnt have unbreakable and that it takes about another 20 seconds for that person to try again), even giving a debuff after it happens to succeed.
Under those circumstances, the mechanic would be pretty much useless in normal gameplay, often even being a killer-sided option. But in that one specific case, it would help. It might be a very rare circumstance, but just because its rare doesnt mean its an excuse for it happening in the first place. Back in the day, it used to be rare for survivors to keep a game hostage, it was about 1 in 50 games that it would happen, yet it was no excuse that killers had no way of forcing survivors to either leave or die, which they now do. It used to be rare for people to use dying light with mori and instantly track down the obsession and kill them(which didnt require a hook at the time), yet it happened so it needed some change. In my opinion, this form of slugging is the next thing that should change. Its not meant to nerf casual slugging, its even meant to discourage people using it in normal gameplay. But in the case of ######### who only care about getting a 4k(coughrussiankillerscough), it would be a last resort.
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So you're proposing changes to a mechanic that you don't even fully understand and you're not even clear on what the term "slugging" even meant?
Slugging is leaving survivors on the ground and not hooking them, PERIOD. It encompasses all instances of this happening.
Please stop making suggestions for changes until you play the game long enough to actually understand terminology.
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No. People like you should keep their opinions to themselves. This suggestion stinks of bias and you should be ashamed back into the basement for even thinking of this. Killers used to use Ruin is pressure, devs removed that. Now killers slug to force survivors off gens and you want that removed. Go ######### yourself.
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Just give survivors another recover bar after the first one to get healed to injured.
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Eh, dont watch too many streamers, and people only really complain about it when 2 people get downed. The streamers I happen to watch only really call it slugging when they down 2 people and want to go for more.
"yes, what you are proposing is a free unbreakable, even worse because in your post you make no mention whether this would be one-time use or not."
Again, no. Thats like saying devour hope is a free mori. Or that kicking generators is a free surge or ruin. Or that wiggling is a free decisive strike. Or that a kobe is a free deliverance. Hell, both wiggling and self-unhooking could be compared to it. Wiggling requires a ton for it to be able to work, once every 100 times or so. A self-unhook only works, statistically, once every 25 times. The whole point to the list of requirements I added was to NOT make it a meta gamemechanic. Self-unhooking only really is useful when 2-3 people are hooked, and it punishes you for everytime you fail, let alone that there is no garantuee of it working. That is the same type of downside im intending for this mechanic. That doesnt make it a free unbreakable. And sure, perhaps it should affect the bleedout timer aswell, as unhooking does progress the hook stage quite a lot. But the reason I didnt include the bleed out timer is because it affects the killer a lot more than the survivor.
Besides, nowhere am I stating my idea is the smartest. Nowhere am I implying that too. All I am saying is that there is a very specific gameplay that can theoretically be done with any build, that is extremely boring, extremely disrespectful and a massive waste of time(im including the matchmaking time here, because averagely, it takes 7 minutes to find a match, with that type of slugging, if they pull it off, is at least another 5 minutes wasted and adding another 7 minutes to that before you actually enter a match).
The game is meant to be at the very least fun for both sides, frustrations aside. I have played enough killer to know a lot of frustrations, and I do tend to be chill against 99% of the killers. Perhaps you might think that giving attention to that 1% that is extremely ######### to experience might be a bit of an overreaction, which is fine. But personally, I am trying to help find a way to keep the games enjoyable for both sides, even those 1% of games. Which is why I was asking a bit more input on making this specific thing more discouragable. I dont want wiggling to be too reliable, I dont want unhooking yourself being reliable and I dont want this thing to be too reliable to use. It should be something that should only really work against those specific cases, discouraging slugging like that, because you're actively ruining the game for 4 people.
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That was actually what I was going to suggest. But I think it needs to take 60 to 90 seconds.
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Ah, a pot calling the kettle black eh? At least im trying to make it as killer friendly as possible, making me not biased at all. Where you seem to be the type of guy who only really enjoys a game when a 4K can be pulled off.
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Well, thats too easy and simple and doesnt give any risk. I'm intending it to be on par with unhooking yourself. That way Unbreakable would be comparable to Deliverance.
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Weaker flip flop and boil over should be part of the base kit, with the actual perks making quite a difference. Right now the perks are too weak to use effectively unless used in combination with each other while slugged.
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The slug game for survivor NEEDS a quality of life update. For the people is quite good in this aspect but laying on the ground over and over is just no bueno. For the people can work but the slug game is just too strong. You've got this bad survivors issue that plays right into this strat and it is so hard to carry them.
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Left to bleed out? They bleed out because survivors crawl away, doing it out of spite so they don't get hooked. If your teammate hasn't gotten you by the time you bled out, blame your mates.
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Ah yes, let us nerf killers some more.
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Survivors should be able to blink through the exit gate without opening it and escape.
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Interesting concept, but no thanks way too strong. With unbreakable and no mither your sacrificing something, unbreakable a whole perk slot that you can use once per match, with no mither, your sacrificing a health state to use it infinitely. One of the many problems this game currently has is how many second chance options survivors have, I'm not saying killers don't have them either, but the amount of second chances survivors get is INSANE. Get unhooked anywhere close to the killer? Borrowed time. Get picked up even after the killer hooks 2 survivors before grabbing you? Decisive Strike. Get steamrolled and the killer is carrying everyone to a hook? Unbreakable, whole team is up now. Have a couple gens left and it looks like your gonna lose? Key, everyone escapes for free. Last one alive, boom, hatch you escaped even though you didn't deserve it all. Things like hatch and perks to prevent tunneling are fine, but on top of the list of second chances survivors get sometimes your just untouchable, Dead hard imo is the biggest offender of this, not because you can bait a swing, or you get invulnerability, but that small amount of distance you get, in high ranks that's enough to start another chain of loops that can double a killers chase time, you can't bait DH for distance, and it's basically a free health state. That's why I don't agree with it, good concept though because I totally agree being slugged for too long sucks.
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That’s where you are wrong. If you’re slugged you WILL bleed out in 2 minutes. Before EGC there was no timer at the end. Survivors could just hide in lockers and start a totem and stop and go back into a locker so they’ll never get crows for as long as they wanted. Now there is a timer just like slugging. If you’re saying you don’t want EGC to be a thing then might as well also say that the timer for slugging will now be infinite and the only way to die is to be hooked.
Like I said, if you don’t have time for 120 seconds you obviously don’t have time for this game and it is not for you so go play something else.
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Slugging is pretty much a low rent tactic, but allowing a survivor to go from dying to injured without some perk would be way OP--aside from perks like No Mither and Unbroken, plus having other survivors who can (and should) come and heal you...yeah way OP.
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Yet another extremely ridiculous request for incredibly, I mean INCREDIBLY huge survivor buff to make gen rushing even more prevalent. I honestly don't know how can someone even come up with ideas as ridiculous as this, especially as main argument beiing that beiing slugged is not fun and "hold the game hostage" which it clearly does not.
While we're at it let's make gens repair themselfs since that's boring too. Ohh and don't forget that losing is not fun as well let's remove that too so that survivors can have their much desired "fun".
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This post makes slugging out to be a hindsight that the developers didnt intend for that needs to be fixed. In actually, the developers ENCOURAGE slugging. Theyve actually told players to slug to help counter various things as well as to build pressure. Theres also plenty of perks in the game (not just unbreakable) that center around slugging.
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Honestly, I would be fine with this. I rarely slug and usually it is only because the person that just got unhooked is humping my ass, desperate to use their DS (anti-tunnel perk, btw). Unbreakable could just be the faster recovery.
Killers could still get some pressure from slugging, but wouldn't be able to completely drain all the fun from the game by doing so excessively.
The game would be just fine.
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Nah, im saying that in the old EGC, the rarity of encountering players like that was practically 0%. It wasnt exactly 0, but it might as well have been. I only encountered 1 survivor doing that to me after hundreds of games as a killer and only 1 survivor after thousands of games as survivor in the old EGC. Besides that, back then, you could still hear breathing in lockers too. Essentially, as a killer you can actually still play the game. You cannot play the game when everyone is slugged. Sure, its "just" 2 minutes, but its 2 minutes of not being able to do ANYTHING. That's the difference there.
Besides that point, does it really matter if something is rare? It happened enough times to be annoying AF. All im trying to add is a solution to help fix that rare event that doesnt affect normal gameplay much. I mean, remember old brand new part? It was just a 2 minute game and having a 4 man squad carrying one each was rare enough that it didnt happen every single game(because it actually was an extremely rare thing to be in the blood web, looking at you ebony mori). Yet it was big enough of an issue to be changed. So why be so biased as to care for one game mechanic being abused, even though its "just 2 minutes" but its survivor sided, yet not care to "just 2 minutes" when its survivor sided. Especially if said fix does NOT AFFECT NORMAL GAMEPLAY.
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But that is the thing, not a single person should be punished for the actions of the other.
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They totally should. It's 4v1. A team trying to survive the trials together versus one lone killer. Obviously there are perks for those who do the lone wolf route but obviously they don't make it very far since most don't use it. And those that do can easily survive and out-chase most killers. The minute someone dies, it makes the game more difficult for the rest of the survivors.
And again, if you don't want to rely on others because you "don't want to be punished for the actions of others", there are perks such as unbreakable and no mither to help you along with that.
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I like the idea of a survivor being able to get themselves back up if they solve a skill check if the killer leaves them to go get the other person for one major reason. Good killers when it's down to 2 players left will down 1, and then leave him on the ground and go hunt the other to prevent them from getting the hatch. This coupled with the fact that once the 3rd person is hooked, it takes a long time for the hatch itself to open provides a LOT in favor of the killer. And considering the so called "balance" is for 2 survivors to escape and 2 to die, I don't see the logic in providing that much in favor of the killer that late into the game.
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How about this? Make it so when you’re fully (Max) recovered on the ground - and you don’t have Unbreakable unused - you have a 4% chance to “kobe”/pick yourself off the ground.
You get 3 default chances. If you fail all 3, you die. That way you don’t give survivors a free Unbreakable but you can take yourself out of the game against a slugging killer that drags out a match.
No different than killing yourself on hook.
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I think that would be fine if they dramatically increased the time it takes to recover (I'm talking to at least a minute). But that does get rid of a lot of pressure slugging can put on the survivor team, and that's not something that the game needs to lose right now.
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Second chances are a myth. The whole reason those perks were implemented was because certain strategies were simply too strong on their own. Tunneling an unhooked survivor after camping brought Borrowed Time into life. Tunneling a survivor for prolonged time brough Decisive Strike into light(besides, if you hook 2 people and STILL get striked, you're obviously rushing too much. It's a mistake on your part) Slugging and lack of communication in general brought No Mither into life, but since No Mither was too obvious to ever really work(seriously, how often do you see someone use No Mither and it actually working? I have only seen that happen in custom games), so Unbreakable was made. Adrenaline+Hope in combination was literally the counter to NOED, 2 perks being required to counter 1 killer perk. So really, you cannot really call them second chance, as in the current meta, often 1 person having 1 of those perks is required to even have a generally competitive game, let alone if you have ######### killers who try to ruin the game for 1 specific survivor.
By the way, key? REALLY? You're gonna call a key a second chance? So, how about all the mori's? How about Discordance giving you info whenever 2 people are on a gen regardless of where you are on the map, regardless of what you did? Key's are not second chance. Its not a free escape. The generator formula has the following results to spawn in the hatch: 4 survivors fixed 5 gens, 3 survivors 4 gens, 2 survivors 3 gens. If survivors can fix enough gens to have a hatch spawned and they have a key(which you can see in the lobby, if you didnt look at items in the lobby, thats on you), then they literally earned the requirement to be able to open the hatch. If you happen to know the hatch is spawned in and know they have a key, you literally need to add the hatch to your patrol. Survivors cannot escape at the same time and killers have a higher priority to closing the hatch than survivors escaping.
As for the hatch, well, like I said, often killers get a mori because someone unhooked you without using borrowed time and the killer kills you, also unearned. Hatch is based on memory and speed. If both of you know where the hatch is, 99% of the time the killer will be able to find it before it even opens(unless you mori, but you shouldnt mori the second last survivor if you know the hatch is visible to survivors).
Then I can open up the can of worms on killer perks: you can do terribly as a killer and still get instadowns with NOED or Haunted Grounds. You can be awful in micromanagement on gens and have Ruin do the job for you instead. You can be awful at predicting where survivors would go and have BBQ or Rancor give that information straight to you, let alone that you could be terrible at patrolling and having Discordance hold your hand as where to go next. Let alone all the instadowns that are in the game: You can have Honing Stone on Trapper that instadowns a survivor, regardless of how good the killer actually placed the trap, it could have been in a very non-strategic point and it's a free dying state for the killer. You have Myers who can get perma Tier 3 relatively easily with the right addons, which is just a matter of copypasting a build and you have a build that always works as long as you walk around the map. You have a huntress with iridescent head that is basically just a long range perma noed, see someone charge for a window? Free instadown regardless of skill. Iridescent Coin on Deathslinger gives an instadown, which can be done regardless of how good you are at the game(not including the fact that if he spears you, you cannot strafe sideways, which makes it practically impossible to get an object inbetween you if there are some potential objects in the way). Let alone the fact that 5 of the killers already have an instadown as a base ability. Those all grant rookie killers the ability to do much better than they normally otherwise could, and they grant good killers quite a strong ability. Obviously, some combinations are really strong, but in the context of the whole game, you cannot judge the strength of perks based on those strong combinations. This game simply has some safety nets for bad players that can be abused by great players. The thing that I offered, is comparable to being able to unhooking yourself as a survivor. Which isnt strong at all, but in the case where all 4 survivors are on the hook at the same time, at least gives the chance of one of them being able to make a change to the outcome. If then, they are capable of unhooking all 4 and win the game without the killer killing anyone, that would be on the killer. Because if you have the skill to hook 4 survivors at once but then continue to never hook any of them again, you were relying on something external. What I described, should fit in that catagory. If someone has both the time and thinks it worth risking to pick themselves up, at the cost of being broken while also having the risk of regressing that recovery bar and notifying the killer(which is much more negative side than a survivor unhooking themselves), is able to pick everyone up and still win the game, then the killer who slugged everyone relied on something else, be it something like haunted grounds, or the altruism of the opposing team. Regardless, I do not see a single way, where it is a smart move to risk picking yourself up under those circumstances unless the killer already downed everyone else.
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Kinda, but the difference is that if you die on the ground, it doesnt count towards killer emblems. ######### survivors could abuse that to basically force a killer to depip. Which is not my intention. My intention is purely that using it would, under normal circumstances, be something that aides the killer, having someone regress their recovery when on the ground while also notifying the killer would only help the killer, if they pick themselves up and recieve a broken status for one or multiple minutes would aid the killer.
People think its basically unbreakable with a skillcheck, but its not. The brand new part skillcheck is basically just the great skillcheck. Hitting it consistently is tough, even for experienced survivors. Let alone that things like Lullaby and Doctor's shock therapy would affect it too(which actually would buff a slugging doc even more, but then at least if someone makes a slug build and it's a doc, you're prepared to face a slugbuild).
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Its why I am trying to make the option as uninteresting to use as possible. It should literally be a last resort and not guaranteed to happen, and in the case if tried and failed should punish someone harshly, perhaps even resetting the entire recovery bar(personally, I was thinking about 50-75% regression). And if succeeded, should still punish that person using it. Making waiting for survivors to pick you up even after a minute be more endearing than trying it yourself.
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A free pickup is simply too strong, and no one with extensive knowledge of the game takes pips seriously.
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So? it being a 4 v 1 should not make the decisions of 1 person affect the experience of the other in such a significant way.
If someone continues to fail skillchecks, then your decision to stay with that person fixing the gen, which obviously will draw the killer, is a mistake on your behalf. Hearing the music increase when the killer is obviously chasing someone, with you not going to hide in a locker or somewhere else a chased survivor would literally never go, would be a mistake on your part. Being unhooked and downed instantly while the killer continues to chase the person who unhooked you, is not your mistake. Hell, I'd even say that if someone was not using borrowed time, they should be taking the hit regardless of who the killer actually attacks, because its not your mistake. If it is not you taking a risk, its not you who should be taking the punishment.
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It is not free, though.
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Just make bleeding out the same as being hooked. Once the bar is halfway gone, allow survivors to bleed out/let go. If they allow people to let themselves go on the hook, I don't see the huge problem with allowing people who are halfway bled out and just crawling around to end their games early too and move on.
I only say this because as I said before, they already have a similar option available when a survivor is hooked, and because any time I find myself playing survivor and get to bleed out that much, it's usually because my team mates don't plan on helping me any time soon. Even recently I've died of purely bleeding out because my team mates wouldn't come over and pick me up, without even being hooked.
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Another person who simply read the title and not the rest of the argument. Its not a buff. Its not even enabling genrushing. Having a 4 man slug and the killer not picking up anyone, is in fact a form of holding the game hostage, and the ability of that even being able to be used should be fixed.
Let me make it clear for you again:
- its a skillcheck comparable to BNP, even tinier in my view, which is not a guaranteed hit. Tons of people go through BNP without even hitting one single skillcheck.
- if failed, it REGRESSES your recovery, maybe even fully resetting it, meaning it will take another 40-ish seconds before you can even try again.
- Again, if failed, it notifies the killer, giving information that the survivor is trying to pick themselves up, giving the killer 40 seconds to go back and pick that survivor up and hooking him before allowing a second chance at picking themselves up. Because
- You need to be OUTSIDE of the killer terror radius to pick yourself up, meaning that if the killer is nearby, you cannot even perform it.
- If succeeded, you recieve the broken status for at least 1 full minute, and the killer has the option to do a 180 and go back and chase you again.
NONE of this is realistically usable in a normal game.
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See, I thought of something like that before, but its not really different than just a disconnect. It can be abused against killers too, because if you're downed more than once, odds are very likely that the bar reaches halfway in normal gameplay. Allowing survivors to yeet out at that point doesnt grant the killer any emblem points. Sure, the killing factor grants 2 points regardless, but you could literally bait a killer to come pick you up, and bleed out before he is able to pick you up, which wastes killer time. The whole reason I made it as complex as it is, is because its meant to be a last resort, not something to be used in regular gameplay.
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You're correct, except if the killer slugs you instead of immediately hooking you again. He understands it's not your fault and is giving you a second chance to escape before he/she may come back for you. Which again, you have a few perks at your disposal to use while you're slugged to either escape or crawl away quickly. You also have 2 other people to help you out (assuming the third is being chased). I don't understand why having the ability to play longer in the trial instead of getting immediately hooked 2-3 times and die because you can't outrun a killer is a problem.
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Your discussion should be a DC issue.
If the DC penalties weren't implemented, survivors could DC any time.
But that's also really bad.
People are just jerks sometimes. =/
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I think that increasing the time it takes to recover fully and inflicting broken on the survivor for the rest of the trial would be fair. It makes it situationally useful, but you will be punished if you are forced to do it
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Which would be true in one case, but in 99% of the cases, they will chase the other person because they are the only other survivor left. If slugging happened every single game, everyone would be using unbreakable, causing killers to stop slugging at all, causing people to stop using unbreakable. If 1 perk is linked to a specific meta, then there simply is a problem. The whole reason hook mechanics were changed, was because there was a survivor meta that would 99 all the hooks, forcing killers to run hangmans trick if they wanted to counter it, with survivors not 99ing hooks anymore due to hangmans trick being constantly used. A perk was linked to a certain meta, and they changed that meta to no longer require a perk. So really, what is the difference here?
I'm all for buffing both killers and survivors to a point where there is more freedom in playstyles on both sides, which is currently being worked on(personally, I want the walls to be instabreakable and not be just vertical killer pallets, adds a lot more interesting gameplay than just making some loops shorter). But with the current meta? This can happen, is extremely unenjoyable when it happens and breeds toxicity. All im trying is to find a way of giving a way out of a very specific case(2 players left, 1 person slugged so the killer can hunt the other person without opening the hatch first, or 4 people slugged for 2 minutes due to a certain type of russian killer being basically an #########), without having to rely on perks, while also not affecting normal gameplay. Because in normal gameplay, I dont need to rely on unbreakable to have fun, even if I lose. In normal gameplay, if someone happens to run unbreakable, they rarely are able to use it, and if they do use it, its because their teammates are incapable of picking him up otherwise for one reason or another. In normal gameplay, Adrenaline, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time are actually extremely unreliable perks to use and are often a waste of perk space. Making things like Spine Chill or Iron Will much more preferable.
And again, I am very open as to making that ability as unpreferable as possible. Perhaps making an activated Adrenaline, DS, BT and Unbreakable affect that mechanic to being unusable, as they already have used something to get out of a sticky situation.
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