The game balance. Lets analyze a few games .
Lets analyze a few games from tournament games and try to understand how well balanced the game is and give devs proper feedback instead of just "if you think so you re just ignorant" . Both are high level play.
Some Part from a Tournament:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lUdZ23s1us&t=3552s
What do you think?
Comments
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Don't DBD tournaments have a bunch of artificial rules?
Would they really be the best examples for attempting to make a case for game balance? Since there will be factors common to regular games that don't show up in tournament play because they aren't allowed or otherwise hindered?
And is a couple games in a tournament format a really good indicator of game balance over the thousands of games played everyday?
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1) Yes but those mostly are just perks offerings etc. The actual gameplay doesnt change.
2) Like what?
3) There will be more. Dont worry.
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1st this game isnt competitive xd
but ok let me kinda analyze that video:
1st game: organized "esport" team did 5 gens in 8 mins (and most killers on this forums are crying they are playing vs op SWF and have 4min games, #GITGUT)
2nd game: over 14mins for 5 gens
that only tells me: if killer want game to take longer he can, just stop whining and learn how to apply pressure xd
and everything on map that IMO is survivor sided
but tbh i dont know tournament rules so it may be sth thats changing everything
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"Just perks and offerings" um, those are kind of important.
In most tournaments for example including ones I've played in the following rules are quite common:
OOO is banned, I'm sure you can figure out why.
Keys are usually banned as well and cannot be used even if found. Same with Mori's.
Usually there is rules on how many toolboxes can be brought, and brand new parts are usually banned.
Map Offerings are not allowed for either side, and extremely killer or survivor sided maps (stuff like Hawkins or Disturbed Ward) are removed from the rotation.
Additionally with tournaments they are normally structured around a point scenario, so player motivations may differ from a standard game where kills and escapes are paramount objectives.
Just picking random tournament footage without explaining in context what the rules were doesn't confirm or deny any point that you're trying to make.
If you're going to link tournament footage and want it "analyzed" you should be including the rules set, or at least find me a Russian translator.
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I dont know what you want to say by competitive but one thing for sure. The game suppose to have if not perfect balance at least a decent.
And i think just by analyzing high level plays from both sides helps to consider the game balance.
Tournament rules are mostly prevent cheese gameplay and there s a rule that allows teams to use comms. If im wrong correct me.
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Again. The actual gameplay doesnt change.
Here are some most valueable rules for any tournament:
Noed can only be used once per tournament stage.
And there are certain perks banned to use as / against specific killers mostly its ds(old one) and OOO. You can find that info here:
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well i cant correct you because i never saw DBD tournament,
and about "suppose to have perfect balance" (i laughed a bit, sorry) in 1vs4 you CANT have perfect balance, especially since 1 side objective is skill expressive and other dont (as surv you can hold m1 as well with 100h as with 4k hours)
in normal Que you dont know vs what you will play (is it killer with red add ons? no add ons? mori? SWF? tryhard survs with 4 2nd chance perks? 4 slowdown perks? or just 4/1 innocent casual)
for good balance to exist you have a) good matchmaker, b)casual and ranked que with balance regulations
but because of player base we wont get B, and because of survivors objective we wont get A
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Again, I can look at general tournament rules too, and found a lot more than you did.
But again, doesn't change the crux of my post, without the context of tournament rules for THIS tournament, analyzing is impossible.
I mean if you're interested in analyzing for game balance, why not just link a video of a regular non-tournament game that has no limitations? Wouldn't that be a better indicator of the game's current balance for the average player?
This is like saying a regular unranked League of Legends game with people who's MMR is around Silver is the same as game at Worlds. Same game, same rules even, but miles apart in terms of how the games actually go.
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Yes i didnt mean it that way .
Anyway actual gameplay is what that is important here as it s the main aspect of a game.
I provided a full record from that stage You can watch more if you care.
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Nobody did that sadly. You want to do one? I can take killer role.
I expect you talking about high level play from both sides if the otherwise it wont have any proper results we need and you know why.
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Sorry, I will have to say that the gameplay changes in DbD Tournaments ARE significant enough that they need to be heavily taken into account.
The #1 thing is that the goal is to earn BP, NOT to kill Survivors or escape the match. That change alone hugely changes how you view the game's Perks and which should be effective. Enduring + Spirit Fury is a good combo in regular play, suicide in a tournament, for example.
I also don't know about this specific tournament's rules, but I have heard that there's also limitations on Survivors gen repairs to avoid genrushing, which is REALLY huge. IIRC, don't the Tournament rules restrict the first few Generator repairs to Healthy survivors only?
Plus, I've also heard about things like anti-tunnelling/camping rules, so if someone gets unhooked you have to respect it and go for the rescuer, so Perks like Borrowed Time aren't really a thing in tournaments... Are you starting to see the problem here with how much some tournament rules change how the game's played?
Tournaments are not useless for information on the state of the game but I would highly recommend watching standard, high rank public matches instead of tournament play for game analysis. You can analyse tournaments and get good takeaways from them, but you NEED to constantly take into account the differing player motivations from standard play and the limitations of the tournament's rules, and the game's overall balance state certainly can't really be determined with all the artificial restrictions.
At least, beyond criticising the game for apparently needing so many artificial restrictions for people to be capable of making Dead by Daylight tournaments that are fun to watch. Things like map restrictions aren't a big deal but DbD tournaments often have lists of artifiical limitations as long as your arm.
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Pfft, if I'm doing one it's gonna be on my own gameplay as killer, get in line buddy :)
But seriously, I mean I could but I think you can see plenty from watching the streamers that are already going, guys like Otz, Tru, and others to see what the game looks like at high levels.
I think the meta right now is quick games and killers do have to adjust. Generators just go fast now and you have to be prepared and ready to counter that. Pop Goes the Weasel, Thrilling Tremors, Corrupt Intervention, whatever it takes. You also have to be able to tactically slug when needed to occupy survivors with picking their people up and getting them off generators.
Playing meta killers is also more critical than ever sadly and some killers suffer as a result. If you just adore playing Freddy, Spirit, Nurse, or Hillbilly you're in for a good time, because they are viable on every map.
I think changing Hex: Ruin was the right choice I just think the timing was wrong. Do it after you change some of these really bad maps, make them more balanced, and I think the game benefits. Doing it now and I think you made a lot of killers just have such a horrible time it's hurting the killer player base.
I don't personally have a problem with second chance perks as they do some level of anti-tunneling and anti-camping work. About the only thing I wish was that DS would cancel after 30 seconds instead of one minute if I hook someone else.
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I watched them. They are not high level players. And mostly they giving survivors too many second chances.
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DS should be changed next way: if you start to do something towards progressing the game like repairing generator cleansing totems healing others ds deactivates simple as that.
As for generators time its totally fine except bonus skillchecks. Maps should be resized to make them a bit smaller. Small maps are fine im mostly talking about maps like Coldwind farm etc.
I agree with you most killer players just need to get good .
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No its not like that about rules. They try to balance it out for both sides. Still the most important part which is gameplay doesnt change.
Standard high rank games? Where ? I highly doubt you can find any.
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By the way have you seen this?
Those popular english streamers wont do things like this it was just a joke. But if they would it would prove whether someone of them is good or just trash. While russian streamers they do compete in tournaments. People like True wont compete ever because either they know they suck or they are just too afraid of losing.Shame!
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killers have moris for a reason the game is more balanced then it was 2-3 years ago. I regret nothing when using the best add ons + moris on swf teams of 3-4
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Well, of course you won't find any if you keep invoking a No True Scotsman and say "no, those Rank 1 players with thousands of hours of experience don't count". (also, giving a Survivor team a second chance in public matches is in no way an indication of being "unskilled" ESPECIALLY if the player in question 4Ks anyway)
It doesn't matter if they try to balance it out for both sides, I'm sure they do, but when you have that many rules that change the game's perk meta, how players approach a match, and how quickly matches end, it's no longer the same game of Dead By Daylight and is FAR less useful to analyse the overall state of the game.
As another comparison, Team Fortress 2's most popular competitive mode is 6 versus 6, even though pretty much all regular matches involve far more players. Even though this is also 100% balanced between teams, both sides only having 6 players to work with dramatically changes which roles and weapons are the most powerful.
"the most important part which is gameplay doesnt change" Maybe the chasing mechanics and so on don't change but the flow of a match is THE single most important thing about this game and that changes incredibly.
Also, considering Otzdarva was namedropped, and you seemingly made some kind of distinction between English/Russian streamers, I'll throw this out there:
This video features footage of him winning a tournament game and he dissects the match play-by-play explaining his decisions. (and, as a bonus, has a lot of examples of how Otzdarva deviates from normal strategies because of the tournament's ruleset) Has Otzdarva now met your standards for being a "real" high-level player, or do true Scotsmen still never put sugar in their porridge?
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That is an unusual tournament that ban survivors from doing gens while injured is stupid though id like to watch it as well if you could provide the whole tournament in other thread .
That part from tournament i provided doesnt have any rules that prevents you from doing something and most rules just balance out unskillful play from both sides. Like killer cant use perk like "Haunted grounds".
Otzdarva is definetely a good player.
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I'm don't want to watch a long video in a language that I don't understand so I just want to add one thing: That video is from 2018, 1,5 year ago, so whatever point you want to prove with it: It's kinda outdated.
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