How is it fair for chests to spawn keys?
From my experience ( don't know about you guys), almost every single time Survivors put themselves into a 3 gen situation, one of them miraculously finds a key and escapes along with their friends.
All the prep work and effort the Killer had to do is now completely discarded because free escape keys. Why is this allowed and how is it fair?
If one of the Survivors brought a key right from the start, I can completely understand and revise my strategy. But there's literally no counter to unexpected keys from chests in a 3 gen situation.
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As a survivor, I agree. Also because if I'm looking in a chest, it's USUALLY to find a med kit so I can stop bleeding everywhere. Keys don't help me with that lmao. I know even things like medkits and flashlights and toolboxes can switch up game momentum, but not in the same way a key can. It would be like if a killer could suddenly switch on a mori with no counter (Devour Hope obviously allows for moris but it has requirements and can be eliminated by cleansing). So yeah, definitely not an item I think should spawn in chests.
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That's what I'm saying. Chests spawning keys is equivalent to the Killer having a random chance to Mori someone after they hook a Survivor. It's actually more ridiculous now I think about it.
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Could you imagine if killers found a Mori during the match?
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For as many iri heads i've ran into, and other ultra rare killer addons that break the game, this isn't a valid complaint. I've found 1 key in a chest since I've been playing. I know, because I was pretty excited that it was the first key I had, that's why the moment stuck out in my head awhile ago.
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You're kidding me right?
Keys, in my opinion, are strong and so are many Ultra rare Killer add-ons. But Survivors and Killers bring them into the game and strategies can be changed once the add-on or item is seen or used.
With random Dull or Skeleton keys, there's literally no counter because the Killer didn't prep for the key to be used since it was randomly given and none of the Survivors had a key at the start. You understand?
With your example of Iridescent Heads, at least the Survivors know immediately what the Killer is using and adapt and change tactics.
With random Keys, it's straight up unpredictable and borderline broken.
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To be honest, I'm not really against finding a key during a match. It adds a lot of extra drama to each game, but I do recognize that killers don't have an equivalent ability in each match.
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Suvivors and Killer bring addons and items. Strategies/tactics can be changed when an addon or item is seen or used.
With keys from chests, they're completely unpredictable and just broken OP.
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I can confirm that this does not happen every single time a team is 3-gen'd on a map. In fact, I can assure you that it doesn't even happen that frequently. LOL
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Well, the "extra drama" isn't exactly fun when nearly 90% of the game was you outsmarting the Survivors and them just cheaply escaping at the last second.
Oh and "Entity Displeased"
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When I said "Almost every time" I meant from my own personal experience, not speaking for other killers . But my point still stands, keys from chests are broken OP.
(edited my post btw for better clarification)
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I honestly don't see the issue in that. Let me give you an example. Let's say that the survivors 3-gen themselves against a doc on a really small map. Now let's say that the doc doesn't give a damn about finishing the game. Just shock, chase off a gen, and kick it. Then return to the other two. A game like that one can literally last forever.
If anything, I would actually suggest that keys only spawn in chest, and remove them from the bloodweb. That would balance them greatly.
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No, its a 7% chance baseline to get ANY key...which includes useless green keys. Its luck of the draw and it's designed to happen extremely infrequently, which it does. Also, if a survivor and "all their friends" are escaping through the hatch with a key - they have obviously done all the gens necessary to get there...so it's not as though they've done nothing in a match while you're just out there being Captain Kill-a-Hoe. 🙄
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Hate to break it to you but even the chance of obtaining a game ending item can break the game.
And its not like I literally waited for them to finish gens until there was a few left. I applied pressure like always and by sheer luck they managed to escape.
Having such a impactful item being able to spawn is a ridiculous gameplay design.
Imagine if the Killer had a "7% chance" of being able to Mori someone when they downed them. Yeah not exactly a good idea amirite? 🤔
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I agree. It's even worse if someone brings Plunderer's Instinct since every time I use that perk, I usually always get a key lol.
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Except it's not breaking the game. And your comparison is flawed. As I stated, there is not a 7% chance to get a key that will allow you to escape. The majority of baseline chests that produce keys produce green keys because it requires a perk to render higher rarity items from chests. If a killer had to pray to the entity several times in a match to gain a 1% chance of being able to mori a survivor - by all means. Implement that time wasting bullshit.
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I think the key escape through random key is surly rare, and yes, thats why its fair.
it is a casual game, so i actually like such turns. Yes, i was suprised too when 2 out of 3 survivors escape through the hatch after i 3gened them. The 3rd stood around as the second survivor used the hatch and i closed it. Bad luck for him. But the game ended then, and you could just go on to the next.
However, with plunderers instinct, it becomes quite common. As a solo survivor, i run it permanently at the moment, together with left alone. Just because in half my matches someone either dc´s or suicieds on the first hook. Then that match is basicly over, but the chance to get a key and still escape keeps the excitement. Otherwise, i might just rush to the killer myself to throw the game and go to the next one.
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I have no problems with keys themselves, I have a problem with dull and skeleton keys having a chance of being freely given away.
It can and does break the game, at least partially. You're vastly underestimating the power of chest keys and how the Killer can be completely oblivious to one survivor having one.
By all means, keys from chests are indeed, to put it nicely, "bull crap".
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Maybe they should nerf keys so only the person that has a key can escape through the hatch, or something like that.
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No. Its perfectly fair to have a chance to spawn these keys out of chests. They made drastic changes to the hatch in end game and told survivors we just had to start using more keys. Not only are keys rare in the bloodweb, we have a lot more to spend BP on to keep our inventory afloat. So it is entirely reasonable to have a 3%ish chance to spawn a key from a chest for a survivor.
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Would it be fair then if the killer got an ebony/ivory mori or ultra rare add on mid way through the match when they were doing bad then?
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Well, i think that is a bad comparision, because killer usually cant find addons or offerings during the game, while chests are an implemented device.
How if there were no keys to be found, hooks dont repair themself anymore when they are sabotaged? because the survivors did all that work, and its unfair the killer gets them because they just repair themself.
We had that, and it got changed for a reason. But the same argument the op brings for keys (the work he done nullified) would work for that too.
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Then you are really unlucky. For me, 1/10 chest searches is a skeleton or dull key.
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They should lower the chance to find a key in chests, but removing the possibility at all is not the way to go.
If one of the Survivors brought a key right from the start, I can completely understand and revise my strategy. But there's literally no counter to unexpected keys from chests in a 3 gen situation.
That is not a valid argument, since surivovrs also dont know you might bring a mori until its to late to react to that.
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well, or maybe you are lucky. without plunderers, i get a dull or skeleton key way less than 10% of the time. I mean thats one every 3-4 games. Even with plunderers, i only get one every 2-3 games, without it, i hardly ever got one.
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Just a quick thought of little poor me.
Keys without addons just got two base stats: duration and range. You can't open the hatch with them anymore. As a tradeoff you can read survivor AND killer auras with the two stats you got on the key. For example:
|Green Key| 10 seconds duration, 8 metres range
|Purple Key| 15 seconds duration, 12 metres range
|Iridescent Key| 20 seconds duration , 16 metres range
Addons like Blood Amber and Gold Token now increase the aura reading range on either the killer or survivors.
And now the big one: The addons "Milky Glass" and "Weaved Ring" get a rework. They grant you the ability to open the hatch with the key.
The new addons:
|Weaved Ring| Removes the natural aura reading abilities of the key. Grants the ability to open the hatch with the key after channeling for 8 seconds with a map wide non directional sound queue.
|Milky Glass (New rarity, rare)| Removes the natural aura reading abilities of the key. Grants the ability to open the hatch with the key after channeling for 15 seconds with a map wide non directional sound queue.
And? What do you guys think about my idea, going in line with a mori change of course?
@BigBrainMegMain @GrootDude @Peanits @DepressedClownMain @SurviveByDaylight @Almo @Aven_Fallen @DepressedNurseMain @not_Queen
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It's incredibly rare and time searching a chest means time not working on a generator. 3 genning is a lazy strategy that is honestly too rewarding for how little skill it requires, especially in solo queue.
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A complaint or concern does not become invalid simply because you experienced something differently.
I use to play a Plunders 3 build where the items I pulled from chests determined my playstyle/challenges and I cannot fathom the amount of purple keys I got.
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I do like the idea, but I Love my keys.
I'm a solo survivor and keys are one of the few items I have at my disposal to at least provide with SOME comfort that I might make it out alive.
I rarely, maybe once a month run a SWF so obviously the keys are left behind, but other than that, I run keys.
IF we were talking about an inevitable nerf to keys, then yes. Your idea is grand and I fully support it.
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Sorry but as long as killers choose to tunnel the ever living heck out of people who have a key in the lobby, then chests should have the potential of keys.
Personally i don't use them, and I'd prefer to see both keys and ebonies gone. But until then, keys in chests should stay.
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Never found a key for almost two months and then I used plunderers and found 3 from 6 chests.
I don't see an issue with keys being found in chests as it changes up the game and forces players to be vigilant and change up play but I do think a perk shouldn’t find them so often.
It could just have been dumb luck on my part but it felt unfair when I found them.
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Omg this happens to me way to much! Just yesterday on iron works every time I got anyone they went directly to God loop. Then their friends showed up tanking hits then running God loop themselves all tea bagging. Because of all this I had a tight 3 gen around God loop. Because of pop and the fact they constantly ran it I FINALLY killed someone then hatch spanked next to God loop then a beautiful ihadnt seen all game shows up teabaggs and all 3 take hatch in my face. I know no one brought a key in or I would have brought a Mori for them ( I wonder why I despise keys ) this isn't the first time. It is actually been happening so much lately that I usually bring cut coins or a Mori just in case it's nice that killer gets rewarded for playing good by someone jumping through hatch and survivors get rewarded for getting themselves in a 3 gen lockdown
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It can and does happen more frequently than everyone is saying, especially when it’s any form of SWF. When I bring Plunderers I can get a Pink or Purple key almost every match.
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Killers complain about the weirdest #########.
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That is not a valid argument. Everyone sees the "secret" offering.
And even then, after you mori someone, the other 3 are still alive and playing the game normally.
While a key will suddenly stop the game because all survivors that are left escape in 5 seconds with no room for counterplay.
You can only do a 3gen if the survivors allow it. So yeah... very little skill on their part.
So... you want the killer to play bad? And let the person that can end the game sooner alive when there's 1 or 2 gen left?
If you bring such a powerful item, you better be ready to survive.
What you want, is like asking survivors to unhook in front of bubba. An objectively bad play.
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It's definitely arguably unfair. The only reason I don't see it as completely unfair is chests are a complete crap shoot as to what you get. Yeah, you sometimes get a dull or skeleton key. Others you get a broken key.
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How are you able to react to a secret offering? The statement was that a killer can see a key in a lobby and he could react to that, how should a survivor react to a secret offering with items or perks?
After you mori one guy early, it is GG unless there are only 1 or maybe 1,5 gens left to do. As a killer you can not loose a 3v1 unless you are far less skilled then survivors. One is on the hook, one is getting chased, one is safing. It becomes almost impossible to break this cyle against a decent killer. But dont make this a mori discussion now.
The room for counterplay is to kill them. As a killer i NEVER have a problem against keys ever and as a survivor i almost never escape through hatch with multible people. I was honestly surprised when i saw that many here have a problem with keys.
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Please point out where in my post I Specifically said I wanted killers to play bad.
If a killer tunnels a key bearer, that is fair and square, tactically it makes sense. Most killers do it and most survivors expect it. So please, don't assume what I want based on how you want me to look, which i assume is "Classic entitled survivor"
I simply look at things objectively, and in an environment where we have hatch challenges appear in the rift survivors should still have the chance of finding a key.
Once again, personally I'd rather be rid of both keys and Mori's, but until then, if one stays, so should the other. Just my opinion as it is. No 'ulterior motives' intended, so please don't put words in my mouth to further your argument.
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i dont think its "fair" but im ok with it. just as its not fair for the 4% which seems like its more 25% and killers dont get a 4% insta-down with M1.
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I think this is a good idea
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i dont think thats a good mechanic to have for free, honestly.
maybe we could disable Ultra Rares from chests again and add the ability to loot them to a perk? Up The Ante could do with a nice little buff to it imo...
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The only time I think a key that spawn in a chest is unfair, it's when you got it with Plunderer's, I mean, even if you think it's just a 10% more, it's not hard to find at least a purple key. I do agree that it kills the momentum. Personally I think it should take 10 seconds or so to open the hatch and it will be fine.
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A lot of the people here defending chest keys are bringing up Moris. Yes, Ebony Moris are powerful and definitely should be changed, but we're talking about chest keys.
When you play the game as Killer and see a survivor holding a key in the lobby, you can immediately change your build to counter them gen rushing and taking the hatch.
With unexpected keys from chests, there's literally no way you know they have one unless you seem them holding it or ... well, using it.
Also some think that 3 genning is a lazy strat. To those that think this way clearly never played killer. First off, the Survivors put themselves into that situation. They were so focused on finishing gens that tactic was something completely foreign to them. Keys from chest ( and yes, while there's a small chance of obtaining one) can completely nullify their punishment and give them an easy escape.
If Survivors put themselves in a 3 gen situation, they should be punished for it, not rewarded.
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Well, the entire discussion is about keys being found in chests. So I don't really know why you're talking about keys in lobby.
Also, everyone reacts to secret offerings... "oh, a secret offering, it must be a mori, I should play carefully"
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I mean, what's the harm with removing keys from chests?
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You said you only wants keys to be gone from chests when killers stop tunneling people with keys.
Which you said yourself, is a bad play. You gotta remove the key bearer from the equation.
So you want killers to play bad in order for this change to take place. Is this not the logic here?
I don't see how the way killers play when there's a key around has any bearing on keys being found in chests.
Hell, one could easily make the argument of exactly because killers try to get rid of the key holder asap, they should not be "gettable" in such a secret manner
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By “adapt and change tactics” you mean give up on hook since nobody wants to lose to a low skill noob boosted by add ons and offerings. Killer brings iri heads, noed and an ebony. Survivors arent aware of any of those until the game starts.
Also while it may be a free escape the chances of getting a key are incredibly low without plunderers instinct. You really need the perk to stand a chance at getting the key. It could be argued that NOED is the equivalent, granting free hooks/kills despite all the survivors hard work. Doing 4 totems and then dying to NOED anyway feels just as crappy.
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I mean if you wanna get 3 genned and have the game last forever then that's on you, but I want to actually have a chance of finding a key and escape rather than waiting an hour to finish the match.
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I'm pretty sure most people here agree that Iri Head is too OP, and I agree that it should be changed. But most other Ultra Rare Killer Add-ons can have a counter play. NOED is a strong perk but it can be countered by, oh idk, cleansing totems?
And yes, Survivors don't know this until someone gets affected, but that's the point isn't it? Unless you want to see the Killer's add-ons and perks at the start of the game, which would break balance.
Or you know if you put yourself into a 3 gen situation, you know you could approach the killer and suicide on the hook instead of hiding for 20 minutes. 3 gen is a valid strat that the Killer can use if Survivors work on gens recklessly. Btw, a 3 gen is always at the fault of the survivors, not the killer.
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Why i am talking about keys in lobbys? Because that was one of his arguements? First read the context of a conversation and then join it.
Yes, everyone reacts to secret offerings in the match, but not in the lobby (how should they?). A killer can simply change his killer/perks/addons if he sees a key. Do survivor have a possibility like this?
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Truth be told, as of recent Ive been finding it hard to find keys on my Bloodweb P3, almost like killers Dev did something sneaky like. Meanwhile i put point into killers no Prestige 1 or 2 Ebony mori's every Web.
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