The case for God Windows
I know many killers are happy about the changes but I wanted to offer a survivor perspective on why I think God windows were fine.
- Killer is becoming way to autopilot. It should be difficult. You're trying to outsmart 4 other human beings. When we couple unsafe pallets and loops on maps like Hawkins and The Saloon, along with things like latency in killers favor, bloodlust, and the entity blocker, you can basically win any chase just by holding w long enough. God windows were one of the things that separated great killers from average killers, as although they may have similar chase skills, great killers understand time management and when it is worth it to chase through those windows, as well as when to let a survivor go even though it may feel like a loss.
- The Basement is a map mechanic that has very little counterplay for survivors, especially if the killer is playing someone like Huntress, Hag, or Leatherface. Having the basement near God windows provided risk to looping the structure and punished survivors for being too close to a safe area. God windows don't make survivors invincible. They are very long loops that are easy to miscalculate lunge ranges when considering mechanics like bloodlust, and often spawn in relatively dead zones with maybe an unsafe pallet nearby( Rancid Abattoir, Ironworks, Wretched Shop, etc). Maybe we should rework the basement too since it's an unfair map mechanic to survivors as killers can "hump the basement" as soon as someone gets in there like a God Window.
- If someone just humps a god window all game, they are not doing anything efficient. There will probably be about 2 Gens near the God window. Let them go and chase survivors out of position. You can find plenty of good killers like Marth getting 4ks on Asylum and Iron Works with clown because they know what chases are worth committing to.
- Survivors should have an option to play sweaty like killers. I don't like to vault God window 3 times, but if I'm going against a killer with an ebony mori that camps and tunnels, I should have something that gives me a chance of survival. Survivors don't see what the killer brings into the game, and if I'm going against a killer with overpowered addons and offering, I should have some chance of winning the game because I can't predict when to bring something like a syringe or key.
- The new maps with their massive deadzone and unsafe areas will promote an extremely boring gen rush meta. Survivors will feel the need to get on generators from the start of the game and run immediately to other generators instead of doing things like looting chests, going for flashlight saves, taking hits, doing totems etc since chases will basically end in 20 seconds if the killer knows how to abuse things like bloodlust and entity blocker.
- Most people use God windows wrong. Sure vaulting a God window 3 times wastes 20-30 seconds but it will almost always lead to taking a hit. Good survivors (maybe the top 10-20% from what I've seen) understand its often better to vault the window once a move to a safer pallet or tile with the distance as opposed to vaulting it three times.
- Most God window maps are actually fairly balanced. Let's look at the top three SAFEST maps for survivors in terms of kill rate, Rottenfields, Haddonfield, and Fractured Cowshed. Rottenfields has no god window, instead it is just way too big and easy to play immersed. Haddonfield is pretty busted I'll admit, but after the balanced landing nerf most windows are not as strong. Fractured Cowshed has a strong window, the barn, however I feel the survival rate is more because of the abundance of safe pallets as the window is not as strong as the ones on asylum and ironworks for example, and it is located in the corner of the map, making it difficult to run to. All these maps have above 50% kill rate, which seems pretty balanced, and these are the SAFEST maps for survivors. That means maps like Rancid abattoir, Ironworks, Asylum probably have around 50-60% kill rate which again seems pretty fair.
- If you're playing solo queue against the top tier killers, using strong windows is almost a necessity. Freddy, Hillbilly, Huntress, Doctor, and Spirit all excel in pallet play. God windows were one of the few reliable counterplay options to spirit as she cannot vault during phase. God windows provided a way to break line of sight and force a nurse to guess. Hillbilly and Freddy were forced to chase through them. To be honest more than half the cast has some sort of option to deal with strong windows, and instead of nerfing them and making the best killers even stronger, they should've found a way to improve killers like Clown and Leatherface. This will just make the 75% kill rate the best killers have skyrocket even higher.
- Bamboozle exists. If survivors have to run things like Iron will to counter spirit or spine chill to counter stealth killers on indoor maps, it's not unfair to expect killers to have to adjust their load out in anticipation of certain maps.
Comments
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"Survivors should have the option to play sweaty like killers"
But they have, it's called SWF.
God loops were bad for the game and they needed to be nerfed. I agree some killer stuff like Moris should be nerfed too, but that doesn't mean God loops should stay as they are.
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Not everyone wants to or had the option to play in SWF. Promoting a meta where the only way to win against sweaty killers is to be in a survivor team six is going to kill this game.
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Oh boy, alright here we go.
Killer is becoming way to autopilot. It should be difficult. You're trying to outsmart 4 other human beings. When we couple unsafe pallets and loops on maps like Hawkins and The Saloon, along with things like latency in killers favor, bloodlust, and the entity blocker, you can basically win any chase just by holding w long enough. God windows were one of the things that separated great killers from average killers, as although they may have similar chase skills, great killers understand time management and when it is worth it to chase through those windows, as well as when to let a survivor go even though it may feel like a loss.
Incorrect, I don't think anyone would argue Killer is becoming "Autopilot". If that was any Rank 20 killer could easily best any Survivor in Rank 1 if you can just beat them by just "Holding W for long enough". Killers, just like the Survivor side, still takes some skill to play effectively and optimally. How effective that killer is depends on which killer they are using and what the current meta of the game is.
The Basement is a map mechanic that has very little counterplay for survivors, especially if the killer is playing someone like Huntress, Hag, or Leatherface. Having the basement near God windows provided risk to looping the structure and punished survivors for being too close to a safe area. God windows don't make survivors invincible. They are very long loops that are easy to miscalculate lunge ranges when considering mechanics like bloodlust, and often spawn in relatively dead zones with maybe an unsafe pallet nearby( Rancid Abattoir, Ironworks, Wretched Shop, etc). Maybe we should rework the basement too since it's an unfair map mechanic to survivors as killers can "hump the basement" as soon as someone gets in there like a God Window.
The basement has a chance of spawning somewhere more inconvenient for the killer. Or in the case of maps like The Game, somewhere far from the middle in the bottom floor corner of the map. I feel like you forgot to mention that every basement has always been accompanied by a God Pallet. Which isn't mindgameable. Which forces the killer to break it or force them to give up chase on the survivor. Which already gives you ample time to run away to the next pallet or loop. And sometimes God Windows do make survivors invincible. The Fractured Cowshed window in particular is rather disgusting in how much it distance it gives the survivor compared to the killer and how safe it is.
If someone just humps a god window all game, they are not doing anything efficient. There will probably be about 2 Gens near the God window. Let them go and chase survivors out of position. You can find plenty of good killers like Marth getting 4ks on Asylum and Iron Works with clown because they know what chases are worth committing to.
And most killers know that, most killers actually abandon chase. This is not something only "High Level Killers" are knowledgable about. This is common knowledge to anyone who has played killer for a significant amount of time. It's not worth it to invest time on someone who is good at the chase. Look for weaker victims. So I don't get why this is an argument for God Windows. It's not even anything related to it other than the fact that God Windows are used in loops anyway.
Survivors should have an option to play sweaty like killers. I don't like to vault God window 3 times, but if I'm going against a killer with an ebony mori that camps and tunnels, I should have something that gives me a chance of survival. Survivors don't see what the killer brings into the game, and if I'm going against a killer with overpowered addons and offering, I should have some chance of winning the game because I can't predict when to bring something like a syringe or key.
And they still do? I can run a Spirit for 3 gens with only one teammate remaining not because I use God Windows, but because I used pallets and used that to my advantage to mindgame her everytime she phases in and out of her phase walk. There are FOUR SURVIVORS. Their collective perks and add-ons should only just barely break even with the killer's perks and add-ons. If one survivor has an overpowered perk and add-on, what's stopping the other 4 from running it and basically not giving the killer a single chance of winning? Because they all run the same perks and add-ons, as well as the same loops and tiles. Does that particularly sound fun to you as the Killer? Or heck, as the Survivor is that a fun game to play?
The new maps with their massive deadzone and unsafe areas will promote an extremely boring gen rush meta. Survivors will feel the need to get on generators from the start of the game and run immediately to other generators instead of doing things like looting chests, going for flashlight saves, taking hits, doing totems etc since chases will basically end in 20 seconds if the killer knows how to abuse things like bloodlust and entity blocker.
People already "Gen Rush", I myself always bring perks like Prove Thyself because it can help me pop gen after gen with one other person before the killer could even reach us from the other side of the map. As far as I can tell most maps already have massive deadzones (Mother's Dwelling's realm in particular), not every map is pallet city like The Game or window ville like Coal Tower. There has been large deadzones on multiple maps but you rarely see them because you by instinct would run to the tiles that spawned a pallet or a tile you can run a loop around. You rarely pay attention to the actual deadzones that are already in this game. Because you already have an adequate amount of ways to defend yourself and run from the killer.
Most people use God windows wrong. Sure vaulting a God window 3 times wastes 20-30 seconds but it will almost always lead to taking a hit. Good survivors (maybe the top 10-20% from what I've seen) understand its often better to vault the window once a move to a safer pallet or tile with the distance as opposed to vaulting it three times.
So I hope I'm not taking this wrong but I think you're arguing that there is a way to use God Windows without triggering the Entity Blocker. Which could create a pseudo-infinite. I hope I'm not taking this wrong. Because it sounds like you're arguing against God Windows with this argument.
Most God window maps are actually fairly balanced. Let's look at the top three SAFEST maps for survivors in terms of kill rate, Rottenfields, Haddonfield, and Fractured Cowshed. Rottenfields has no god window, instead it is just way too big and easy to play immersed. Haddonfield is pretty busted I'll admit, but after the balanced landing nerf most windows are not as strong. Fractured Cowshed has a strong window, the barn, however I feel the survival rate is more because of the abundance of safe pallets as the window is not as strong as the ones on asylum and ironworks for example, and it is located in the corner of the map, making it difficult to run to. All these maps have above 50% kill rate, which seems pretty balanced, and these are the SAFEST maps for survivors. That means maps like Rancid abattoir, Ironworks, Asylum probably have around 50-60% kill rate which again seems pretty fair.
I just ran around that loop in Fractured Cowshed as Ghostface the other day, and man was it rough. It was also partially my fault for going after the Bunny Feng because I wanted to hunt wabbits, but that loop did not have to take that long to run around. There is virtually no way to counter that window except vaulting it yourself, which gives the survivor distance to go to the next pallet or do the same exact loop again. And don't forget that they can just break chase and reset your Bloodlust so that's not an option either.
While yes the kill rate is 50%-60% on most maps, keep in mind that statistic was taking into account for ALL ranks. I may have missed the one with Red Ranks if there was one, but I'm pretty sure if you factor in all ranks, killers will always get a 4k because most Rank 20 survivors (Rank 20 Solos I may add) are such potatoes that the only things that often saves them is the hatch.
If you're playing solo queue against the top tier killers, using strong windows is almost a necessity. Freddy, Hillbilly, Huntress, Doctor, and Spirit all excel in pallet play. God windows were one of the few reliable counterplay options to spirit as she cannot vault during phase. God windows provided a way to break line of sight and force a nurse to guess. Hillbilly and Freddy were forced to chase through them. To be honest more than half the cast has some sort of option to deal with strong windows, and instead of nerfing them and making the best killers even stronger, they should've found a way to improve killers like Clown and Leatherface. This will just make the 75% kill rate the best killers have skyrocket even higher.
Solo Queue. I have no issues or problems going against Freddy, Hillbilly, Spirit, etc. Not because of God Windows, but because I can preserve pallets and use them as necessary. Not only that but it's because I also can juggle hook states for every single one of my other teammates so none of us would reach our death hook if it ever comes to it.
The thing about changing the maps is, most top tier killers won't care, because it will not effect them. They will still be as effective as they are now. This only helps low tier killers like the aforementioned Clown and Leatherface because their powers don't do well in large maps like Mother's Dwelling. Why am I confident in thinking that? Well just do a little Logic Chess and realize this. Killers who can blink, teleport, run at high speeds, or phase all have one thing in common. Their speed gives them high map pressure. Now what would happen if the maps are shrunk?
Nothing.
Because they still have the same amount of map pressure. Freddy can still teleport from one side of the map to another, Nurse can still blink from one side of the map to another, so will Billy, so will Nurse. They can still only focus on one survivors at a time, one chase at a time. Shrinking the map only helps killers who don't have the mobility these four have.
Bamboozle exists. If survivors have to run things like Iron will to counter spirit or spine chill to counter stealth killers on indoor maps, it's not unfair to expect killers to have to adjust their load out in anticipation of certain maps.
Let me just say you don't need to use Iron Will or Spine Chill to counter Spirit, you just need to have good game sense and enough knowledge of her power to guess her pathing compared to yours to effectively dodge her from hitting you. Good survivors who knows how to go against Spirit knows this, Survivors who are still learning to play against her (Or refuse to learn) will use these perks, same way Spirits who are still learning to use her power use Stridor to hear the moans of survivors louder.
As for Bamboozle, killlers use it but even that is not enough to fight off certain God Windows (Like Fractured Cowshed).
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if you think god windows are fine you're definetly entitled as #########
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I can say the same about killers. Not everyone wants to play sweaty as killer with Ebony Mori, strong add-ons and by slugging everyone.
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Unfortunately, alot of these cases are not arguements to keep god windows, but are arguments for other aspects for the game. I believe your best points are points 1, 3 and 8, but I'll give my opinion on each of them anyways
1: killer being on autopilot is a problem, and i do agree if killers get dumbed down enough then it becomes super dull to face them and to play them. However, removing these god windows means that playing survivor is also less autopilot. I do agree, removing bloodlust would be a good idea once all these windows and problematic areas are sorted. However the argument that a killer would win by holding W falls apart when the idea of time management comes in, as trying to brute force every hit will take far too much time.
2: the god windows themselves are enough where that is all that is needed in that area, with or without pallets. Forcing a killer to bloodlust/loop the window 3 times eats easily 20/30 seconds for just one hit alone, and we go back to time management issue. Also, having the basement near these windows means very little, as the power of the basement is the time it takes for suvivors to get in and out, and being forced up/down a chokepoint. Most maps have basements in a place of very little mindgames already (killer shack etc.) So trying to use them to justify these windows isnt fair.
3: if a survivor just sits at the window, of course they are just wasting time, but that doesn't then mean that window is fine because of it. I have had many chases where the survivors use sprint burst/hit sprints etc to beeline straight for the god window loop, knowing full well that there is no mindgame to it and the only method of getting the hit is time investment. And as you say, time management means if i do go for the chase, i waste alot of time. This basically gives survivors a zone around the window loop where they can safely heal, knowing that if i attempt tp approach they can wastes my time.
4: this is a stupid argument for broken mechanics in match. God windows don't just punish the sweaty killer, or reward the sweaty survivor. In a perfect game there would be tools on both sides to know what to bring. Saying that these windows shouldnt be fixed incase a killer brings a mori isn't a case for the window, its more a case for the mori (plus there are ways for survivors to sweat without these windows)
5: trying to argue that removing these windows will promote gen rushing is ridiculous. Regardless of maps, most survivors who play the game with the goal on winning will focus generators already. Killers can't abuse bloodlust and entity blockers for 20s chases either, since bloodlust 1 takes 15s to kick in, and an entity blocker takes 3 loops to kick in, and that is if the killer doesn't kick a pallet or use there power. Most survivors don't do totems, chests, flashlight saves anyways, also regardless of maps, unless they feel like they have the time to do them.
6: even when used wrong, forcing 20/30 seconds for 1 hit means the killer is screwed, and if used correctly thats 20 seconds without a hit, and then moving away to somewhere else to extend the chase even longer, further meaning the killer gets screwed due to time management. Bottom line is, if using something wrong is still insanely good, then using it right just makes it even worse for killer
7: one god window on a map severely changes how that map is played. Lets use fractured cowshed for example. If the RNG spawned its god loop, i knew that the gen inside the shed was a lost cause, i couldn't try to protect it at all as the moment i approached the survivors could instantly force me to either waste time looping me around the shed, or force me to drop the chase, which ultimately gains me nothing. Also the surrounding areas around the barn where also a lost cause as most of the time they can make it to the god window loop, meaning several other gens where also lost causes unless i waste alot of time chasing one survivor, and as said many times before, i would lose due to time management.
8. This is less of an argument for strong window loops, and more that these killers are strong. Those killers are strong precisely because of there pallet counters, but still require interaction to do it. Of those killers you mentioned, the window fully counters all of them (besides spirit and freddy), meaning they are forced spend that time in the loop until it is blocked naturally. Spirit can also be mind gamed at any window or dropped pallet, so thats not a case for the windows either, and freddy still has to trap the window, so at least 1 loop is required. Only 3 killers can fully counter these loops, and that is nurse (because its nurse), trapper (who can also have his trapped get disarmed by another survivor mid loop) and hag (who can also have her trap disabled)
9: saying just run bamboozle is stupid. No one should be forced to run a perk due to basic map design. Survivors don't have to run iron will or spine chill, it just makes certain match-ups easier (plus i think its ridiculous that certain perks counter specific killers powers i.e slippery meat and trapper, calm spirit and doctor) plus in your examples as well, there is multiple use with the perks, as iron will and spine chill is useful against every killer, whilst bamboozle, even when its doing its job, is fairly weak.
Bottom line to me, god window loops remove all interaction between killer and survivor. There is no gameplay for either of them, just both of them simply press W until the entity blocks the window. There simple existence makes certain parts of the map extremely unfavourable for the killer to such a degree that every chase started there is doomed to eventually lose them the match. This game needs more interaction, as the mindgames at loops are what is the most fun. Loops should be safe enough where the killer needs to outwit a survivor to get a hit, and a survivor needs to outwit the killer to escape. God loops dont allow any mindgame, and is purely just an entirely safe location, either permanently, or until a pallet gets broken.
Finally though, after these loops have been removed, sure remove bloodlust, its a unnecessary mechanic for most killers anyways.
And everything i have talked about only really applies to matches where the killer is playing well, and the survivors are actively attempting to do gens. If the killer is an idiot that can barely understand the game, or the survivors are screwing around urban evasioning in the corner, then of course a god window isn't going to mean anything
(And yes i know, i do have a lot of free time on my hands)
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Mori's. That's the argument for god windows. They are about the only chance you had if someone got offed early on in the match, and were about your only hope if you were getting tunneled.
Half the killer roster ignored them through their power already, and the other half could use bamboozle.
Now? Collect your free kills. Survivors are expected to hide in lockers, even though killers can bring plenty of perks to almost negate stealth play if they want.
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