Idea on Freddy

Damarus

So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

Milo

@Damarus said:
So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

Em okay? It would be interesting to say the least. Just make all survivors in dream state appear somewhere on the map. It would be kinda cheap sometimes. SOMETIMES

zirumiox

Power that is even worse of a gimmick than the one currently is a stupid idea. Freddys issue is that that his power is very different and therefore hard to balance already.

Not to mention how often the game would crash on people with this kind of power. DbD being as terribly optimized as it is, something like this in an already high cpu load game would just cause nothing good.

Damarus

Milo said:

@Damarus said:
So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

Em okay? It would be interesting to say the least. Just make all survivors in dream state appear somewhere on the map. It would be kinda cheap sometimes. SOMETIMES

Well, this is just a base idea, of course more could be added to it. I felt it would have made things funnier for both sides. And, by the way, my idea would be that of removing his stupid tracking too. The dream world would be permanent, thus not requiring him to get survivors to sleep, because it would also be active from the start of the trial.

Milo

Give him a dash and i'm good

Damarus

zirumiox said:

Power that is even worse of a gimmick than the one currently is a stupid idea. Freddys issue is that that his power is very different and therefore hard to balance already.

Not to mention how often the game would crash on people with this kind of power. DbD being as terribly optimized as it is, something like this in an already high cpu load game would just cause nothing good.

Criticizing is easy, giving out ideas after that seems like something not all folks can achieve. The way I see it, something more related to the character like that would bring way more fun for the players, be them the killer or the survivors. I have fun while playing as and against Michael Myers, and that is a concept that works, more or less. Having Freddy track you from afar is just a stupid idea, put there because other ideas were lacking. Sure, an ability that would change the map overlay would requiring CPUs put to hard work, I won't deny that. But it is up to the developers to make their game better under certain aspects only they can manage. We, as players, can give ideas on how to balance certain things, or on which killer (licensed or coming from folklore, like Kuchisake Onna seems destinted to be) we would like to see added into the game. And I think that is already enough of a helping hand from us. After all, Freddy is a paid DLC killer. Why would you want to pay for something you're almost never gonna use?

S0ckenSchuss

I think the Engine and the map-generator are not able to get moved while players are in game. Everything is placed while loading screen. even the hatch.

but maybe he could change moveable/useable objects. like pallets. not really move them, but drop them by far or set them back up to pass. maybe he could be able to reset the exit gate switch to zero when a surv need to get off it before it was fully loaded and the gate opens.

maybe he could block windows by far or open lockers while driving by.

I think the most weakness is, that survs can still work on the gen/exitgate/heal while they got put asleep, but dont entered dreamworld. that 7 seconds. i think it would be helpful if all actions would be stopped when freddys power hits a surv do get him into dreamworld.

Action_Jaxon

As others have pointed out I think this would be too much on console and cause a lot of issues with disconnects the frame rates and lag spikes are bad as is. Kudos for thinking of ways to improve him though, he deserves to be in a better place than he currently is.

Damarus

@S0ckenSchuss said:
I think the Engine and the map-generator are not able to get moved while players are in game. Everything is placed while loading screen. even the hatch.

but maybe he could change moveable/useable objects. like pallets. not really move them, but drop them by far or set them back up to pass. maybe he could be able to reset the exit gate switch to zero when a surv need to get off it before it was fully loaded and the gate opens.

maybe he could block windows by far or open lockers while driving by.

Hmm... I wouldn't suggest for him to be able to reset exit gates, but he could maybe create some spikes that prevent survivors walking over them, blocking their path just like when a survivor jumps through the same window three times in a short lapse. Of course, the survivor needs not to be just above the area he would like to block and there should also be some sort of visual and auditive warning.

I think the most weakness is, that survs can still work on the gen/exitgate/heal while they got put asleep, but dont entered dreamworld. that 7 seconds. i think it would be helpful if all actions would be stopped when freddys power hits a surv do get him into dreamworld.

And that is why I would opt for the dream world to be active from the start. Freddy is not used in higher ranks due to the fact that he needs to put survivors to sleep, before being able to hit them. And that also prevents him from hitting those who bodyblock him on his way to a hook. Permanent dream world puts a stop to this, making him a little more fun to play as. But, in this case, the dream world would just be a manifestation of Freddy, without making survivors slower in any case. And it would serve to warn survivors, from the start, that they are going against Freddy. I know, not letting them know who the killer is serves as a big part of the latter's playstyle. Make it like this, then: he can activate dream world, to be permanent and without slowing suvivor actions, whenever he wants. Let me explain that better. The match starts and you are Freddy. Dream world is not active, so they still do not know who you are, and you are invisible. You patrol generators and find a survivor. At that point, you activate the dream world, without coming back to "normal world" for the rest of the trial, and every single survivor ends up in it, no matter the distance from Freddy. From now onwards, you can hit them.

S0ckenSchuss

Permanent Dreamworld for survs is OP with actual wallhack and visioning skills of freddy. once in, they could not hide anymore. And it would be nothing special to be freddy anymore if the only thing to do is to put every surv to sleep once.

I think he should get buffed otherwise. maybe instant dreamworld entry or that the survs cant do anything except running when they put to sleep. (no gen work or exitgate work in the max 7 seconds while enter dreamworld)

If he could grabble awake survs from a gen or a exitgate-switch like he could grabble guys out of lockers, he would be too OP of course. But it would be great xD

Unit

Damarus said:

So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

Just delete Freddy

TheDarkLycan

Damarus said:

So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

How bout.... No, as a legitimate Freddy main with 1200 hours clocked in only playing Freddy, he does not need that, he doesn't necessarily even need a buff, he is fine as is. Just think of him like nurse, high skill cap with a high payoff, typically 120k bloodpoints a match for me as my reward

Khalednazari

I'd prefer changes to the existing Freddy. There should be reduced dream world effects for both Freddy and the survivors. Secondly, increase Freddy's base range. Reduce Dream Transition time to 5 seconds, and reduce the transition time redux addons to a max of 1.5 secs. 

Sarief

@TheDarkLycan said:
How bout.... No, as a legitimate Freddy main with 1200 hours clocked in only playing Freddy, he does not need that, he doesn't necessarily even need a buff, he is fine as is. Just think of him like nurse, high skill cap with a high payoff, typically 120k bloodpoints a match for me as my reward

The issue of getting out of DW too easily is still there. It's not easy with addons, true, but the requirement of addons does show bad design.

if part of addons was already part of freddy power (even if said addons were nerfed so that "sum" is the same) would make him actually viable. SC counter is too much

Damarus

@TheDarkLycan said:

How bout.... No, as a legitimate Freddy main with 1200 hours clocked in only playing Freddy, he does not need that, he doesn't necessarily even need a buff, he is fine as is. Just think of him like nurse, high skill cap with a high payoff, typically 120k bloodpoints a match for me as my reward

I was trying to take you seriously, but then I read "Freddy" and "high skill cap" in the same phrase...
The most probable option you have to get out of dream world (which, by the way, should slow Freddy down .. And it does not) is to fail a skill check on purpose, as other survivors will be busy rushing gens or trying to save you from the hook. Not only he can make use of add-ons that make skill checks almost non-existant, but he will also track you when you are far enough from him, resulting in what is called tunneling. Freddy is just the noober version of the Wraith.

El_Sneako

What about Freddy gets stronger for each person in the dream? I know Freddy is supposed to be a dream demon who will literally die if no one remembers him. What if Freddy starts the match invis as he is, and for each person in the dream he gains a small bonus like faster movement, or faster action speed, etc. After one person is in the dream he is visible, with a Micheal size terror radius, and each additional person increases the radius up to normal with four asleep and gives you one shots. Lastly, nerf the aura reading to only when performing an action (I.E. healing and fixing), but failing a self care skill check doesn't get you out.

Damarus

@El_Sneako said:
What about Freddy gets stronger for each person in the dream? I know Freddy is supposed to be a dream demon who will literally die if no one remembers him. What if Freddy starts the match invis as he is, and for each person in the dream he gains a small bonus like faster movement, or faster action speed, etc. After one person is in the dream he is visible, with a Micheal size terror radius, and each additional person increases the radius up to normal with four asleep and gives you one shots. Lastly, nerf the aura reading to only when performing an action (I.E. healing and fixing), but failing a self care skill check doesn't get you out.

Well, I'd second this, but only if his add-on for skill check negation gets removed, or at the very least, highly nerfed. If not playing all together, which almost never happens, survivors will have a really hard time getting out of the dream world. And his aura reading should, if left, be relegated to perks he may or may not choose to use. Innate aura reading is OP. Why would survivors have the option to crouch and hide behind certain covers, if he can see you anyway?
It would be the same if he had innate knowledge of when or where you are repairing. Maybe add this to your idea: you can't get out of the dream world while failing a SC skill check, but if you get fully healed (from yourself or another survivor), you snap out of it.
About the terror radius... It think it should be normal range with two people inside the dream world, not all four.

TheDarkLycan

Damarus said:

@TheDarkLycan said:

How bout.... No, as a legitimate Freddy main with 1200 hours clocked in only playing Freddy, he does not need that, he doesn't necessarily even need a buff, he is fine as is. Just think of him like nurse, high skill cap with a high payoff, typically 120k bloodpoints a match for me as my reward

I was trying to take you seriously, but then I read "Freddy" and "high skill cap" in the same phrase...
The most probable option you have to get out of dream world (which, by the way, should slow Freddy down .. And it does not) is to fail a skill check on purpose, as other survivors will be busy rushing gens or trying to save you from the hook. Not only he can make use of add-ons that make skill checks almost non-existant, but he will also track you when you are far enough from him, resulting in what is called tunneling. Freddy is just the noober version of the Wraith.

So your telling me that Freddy doesn't take skill to play? If you can do well as Freddy, then you can do good as any killer. Freddy is the lowest tier which means he also takes the most skill to be good with m8.

Orion

@TheDarkLycan said:
So your telling me that Freddy doesn't take skill to play? If you can do well as Freddy, then you can do good as any killer. Freddy is the lowest tier which means he also takes the most skill to be good with m8.

That's not what low-tier means, at all. Anyone can get any kills if the Survivors play like potatoes powering a "random action generator".

TheDarkLycan

Orion said:

@TheDarkLycan said:
So your telling me that Freddy doesn't take skill to play? If you can do well as Freddy, then you can do good as any killer. Freddy is the lowest tier which means he also takes the most skill to be good with m8.

That's not what low-tier means, at all. Anyone can get any kills if the Survivors play like potatoes powering a "random action generator".

So your telling me that consistently winning matches with Freddy at rank 1 takes no skill?

Orion

@TheDarkLycan said:
So your telling me that consistently winning matches with Freddy at rank 1 takes no skill?

No, I'm telling you that what you believe "low-tier" means is wrong, and that anyone can get kills if the Survivors play dumb, which is what I wrote. Is English not your first language?

TheDarkLycan

Orion said:

@TheDarkLycan said:
So your telling me that consistently winning matches with Freddy at rank 1 takes no skill?

No, I'm telling you that what you believe "low-tier" means is wrong, and that anyone can get kills if the Survivors play dumb, which is what I wrote. Is English not your first language?

1st off don't be rude, 2nd, you need to learn how to word your sentences correctly, 3rd, Freddy is lowteir in killer ranking which is what I was referring to.

Damarus

@TheDarkLycan said:
So your telling me that consistently winning matches with Freddy at rank 1 takes no skill?

First and foremost, this is not a discussion about which killer (and its relative player) has it bigger, and it doesn't need to be turned into that. As Orion said, no, being low tier does not necessarily mean something requires skill. And again, as previously said, Innate aura reading abilities are much stronger than what you'd like to make everyone think. It completely removes the purpose of acting stealth and allows the killer to tunnel a single player, getting really frustrating. So no, if Freddy takes skill to play, then I am Cinderella. But, to be fair, there aren't many killers who require skill. The only exceptions are Hillybilly, Nurse, Trapper and MM. Even the Clown and the Pig require little skill. Being low-tier here only refers to the fact that he is less likely to be picked, either because he is part of a paid DLC or because people tend to prefer other killers. If what you are trying to say makes Freddy a high-skill killer, let's put it this way: I rarely ever see a Quentin. As such, he becomes low-tier. Does that make him a high-skill survivor? I think not.

P.S: Anyone can say anything, on a game that still has no online stats. I could say I always escape when alone against the killer, without ever being hit. Would that make it true?

Orion

@TheDarkLycan said:
1st off don't be rude, 2nd, you need to learn how to word your sentences correctly, 3rd, Freddy is lowteir in killer ranking which is what I was referring to.

It's a simple question. If English is not your native tongue, we could try conversing in whatever your native tongue is, assuming I can write in it.
My sentences are worded correctly. I wrote exactly what I meant. No more, no less. You're the one who started assuming that I meant something different.
You said, and I quote, "Freddy is the lowest tier which means he also takes the most skill to be good with m8." This is not what "low tier" means, by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, this is the complete opposite of "low tier".

Damarus

The thing here, Lycan, is that Freddy needs to be reworked. A game needs to be fun for all those who are playing. Not just for the killer nor for the survivors. Now, I mainly play videogames related to war, and have played Black Ops III, so I know people will almost always choose what's easier to play. But the main purpose of a game is that of letting people, EVERYONE, have fun, simple as that. I have fun when I am facing MM, even if he kills me, because he works well. He's not frustrating. Freddy is more than just frustrating. If you took some time into reading what this thread was all about, instead of immediately trying to prove how much of an OG you are, you would have noticed we are trying to propose a solution to make Freddy not only more viable but also somewhat more fun to play against.

Jack11803

Give him a more dapper fedora

Jed

I think he needs more control over gates because it seems to easy for people to get away from him at that point. Maybe just remove the blood warden perk and make it a passive ability for him hehe.

DocFabron

-Reduce Dream Transition to 3-4 secs

-Can grab people off gens, Windows, totems, etc. in Dream Transition

-Significantly lower skillcheck chances in DW. Literally half it

-Remove aura reading in DW

-Self-Care does not wake you up

-Power becomes an AOE 

-Freddy exits the DW when the exit gates are powered just like he does in pretty much all the movies.

-Maybe remove the darker DW look from Freddy's vison? Not too sure on this because it doesn't bother me, but I hear others complain about it

Damarus

@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
-Reduce Dream Transition to 3-4 secs

This should result into him not having add-ons that lower the dream world transition time furthr, though.

-Can grab people off gens, Windows, totems, etc. in Dream Transition

-Significantly lower skillcheck chances in DW. Literally half it

As per before, this should result into him losing another add-on that prevents skill checks from triggering.

-Remove aura reading in DW

-Self-Care does not wake you up

-Power becomes an AOE 

-Freddy exits the DW when the exit gates are powered just like he does in pretty much all the movies.

-Maybe remove the darker DW look from Freddy's vison? Not too sure on this because it doesn't bother me, but I hear others complain about it.

I like your thinking, and I pretty much agree with everything, just need to add a few key points, which is what I did. I'm not a big fan of his DW look being removed though, that gives him somewhat of a special feeling. The only other thing that should be added here is for him to be slowed down while survivors are being in Dream Transition, as devs said he should have been. This, and the fact the he should not go into Bloodlust, when chasing someone whitout them being fully asleep (not really sure if he does, atm).

Greater_Cultist

@Damarus said:
So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

I also had an idea which I posted back in march on the steam forums

""Freddy has been the worst killer in the game for a while now, he's quite the joke considering it takes 7 seconds to even interact with a survivor, and a simple skillcheck wakes them right back up, so therefore I have a suggestion on how to potentially fix him

Power: Dream Demon
Hold M2 to channel your power on one survivor at a time, slowly pulling them into the dreamworld
While channeling Freddy has a 30% slower movement speed (85%)

Stage 1: Awake
all survivors start awake
Freddy cannot interact with survivors while they're awake
Survivors can pull others out of stage 3: asleep by performing a wake up action

Stage 2: Drowsy
After channeling your power for 10 seconds, the channeled survivor enters stage 2
Survivors cannot get out of stage 2
Survivors can now see Freddy
Freddy can interact with survivors
Freddy's lullabye is replace with a 24m terror radius

Stage 3: Asleep
After channeling your power for 10 seconds, the channeled survivor enters stage 3
Survivors can get out of stage 3 and back into stage 2 by doing the following actions:
Failing a skillcheck of any kind, exception to Self Care, Overcharge and DS
another survivor performing the wake up action on them.
being hooked

Freddy's terror radius is 16m to all survivors in stage 3
Freddy can down survivors in stage 3 in one hit
Freddy can see survivor's aura if they are in stage 3 and outside his terror radius

Add-on changes:
Class photo only applies when channeling survivors in stage 1
Pill bottle makes Freddy invisible if you are not in his terror radius
The "block" add-ons makes channeling time shorter.
The range add-ons are the same
Add-ons increasing his speed after sleeping now increase movement speed while channeling

I feel like these changes could make Freddy stronger and perhaps elevate him to the mid-tier

Please let me know what you think of all these changes and if you think something is UP/OP, please tell me!""

Damarus

@Greater_Cultist said:

@Damarus said:
So, I came up with an idea on how to balance Freddy, in both ways (from a survivor's perspective and from the killer's). One of Freddy's powers (and I am talking about movies, not DbD) is that of having full control over his dream world, which means he can change the environment at will. What if you replaced his current skill with the ability to change the map. Say, someone is repairing a generator. Freddy activates his skill, which would be limited to 2-3 uses per match (or have like a 150 sec cooldown) and he changes the whole map. Survivors get repositioned somewhere else, generators swap their position or even end up in new ones. Since this would be enough of a time waster for survivors, I think it would actually help onto making him more balanced to play as AND against, possibly making him one of the killers you would pick in high level matches.

I also had an idea which I posted back in march on the steam forums

""Freddy has been the worst killer in the game for a while now, he's quite the joke considering it takes 7 seconds to even interact with a survivor, and a simple skillcheck wakes them right back up, so therefore I have a suggestion on how to potentially fix him

Power: Dream Demon
Hold M2 to channel your power on one survivor at a time, slowly pulling them into the dreamworld
While channeling Freddy has a 30% slower movement speed (85%)

Stage 1: Awake
all survivors start awake
Freddy cannot interact with survivors while they're awake
Survivors can pull others out of stage 3: asleep by performing a wake up action

Stage 2: Drowsy
After channeling your power for 10 seconds, the channeled survivor enters stage 2
Survivors cannot get out of stage 2
Survivors can now see Freddy
Freddy can interact with survivors
Freddy's lullabye is replace with a 24m terror radius

Stage 3: Asleep
After channeling your power for 10 seconds, the channeled survivor enters stage 3
Survivors can get out of stage 3 and back into stage 2 by doing the following actions:
Failing a skillcheck of any kind, exception to Self Care, Overcharge and DS
another survivor performing the wake up action on them.
being hooked

Freddy's terror radius is 16m to all survivors in stage 3
Freddy can down survivors in stage 3 in one hit
Freddy can see survivor's aura if they are in stage 3 and outside his terror radius

Add-on changes:
Class photo only applies when channeling survivors in stage 1
Pill bottle makes Freddy invisible if you are not in his terror radius
The "block" add-ons makes channeling time shorter.
The range add-ons are the same
Add-ons increasing his speed after sleeping now increase movement speed while channeling

I feel like these changes could make Freddy stronger and perhaps elevate him to the mid-tier

Please let me know what you think of all these changes and if you think something is UP/OP, please tell me!""

Hmmm... As I said, innate aura reading is truly OP, so that has to go. I don't like the idea of Freddy downing in one hit either; MM and Hillybilly do that too and it could start to be unfun seeing that put into every killer. And I don't see the point into waking survivors up, while Freddy is still able to hit them. Even if your idea is well explained, I don't really like this overall, and I feel like Doc_W__HOLLIDAY's idea fits better into what he should become, with the changes I suggested too. But of course, you might not like what I'd like. But, it seems the devs have something in mind for him, and we'll see what that his on the PTB, the 28th. That said, I like my idea much better: make DW permanent while he puts someone to sleep and remove aura reading from his skill. Of course, permanent DW would also mean taking away the action slow that comes with it, or at the very least reducing it to just a minimum. And, as previously said, he should be slowed while chasing transitioning survivors, without triggering Bloodlust on that very same chase, at least until they are fully asleep.

[Deleted User]

Dbd is poorly optimised and would obviously run into problems changing the map, heck on xbox it takes literally 2 minutes to load into the map.

Damarus

@Legacy_Zealot said:
Dbd is poorly optimised and would obviously run into problems changing the map, heck on xbox it takes literally 2 minutes to load into the map.

Yeah, I know. But solving that is something the devs should look up to.