A NOED novel
The situation
2 gens completed, killer get his 1st hook and decides to facecamp because whatever, he has noed...
1 survivor being facecamped and not hook suiciding takes 60 + 60 = 120 seconds to die
in a perfect world
the victim would be running kindred and the other 3 survivors would know the killer was facecamping, and they would not try to rescue the teammate, they would "just do the objectives" and the victim of facecamp would not hook suicide
let's imagine that when the killer got his 1 hook, all 3 other survivors were spread and they all were close to a gen that has a close totem in the line of sight, they don't have to look for neither of them.
during 120 seconds of facecamping each survivor would be able to repair 1 gen (80 s) and cleanse 1 totem (14 s), lasting 26 s only. this means that by the end of the first kill, the killer would have lost all gens and 3 totems.
the remaining 3 survivors have now a decison to make, they have 26 s for the first death
- they can go open the gates (20 s) and just leave (cleansing the 3 totems were useless)
- try a rescue mission with BT and maybe some bodyblocks (remember, they have NO idea if NOED is a thing), or
- look for the other 2 totems (to discover if NOED is a thing) and then try the rescue. if the remaining totems are close and the survivors INSTANTLY find them, they will have 26 - 14 = 12 s to unhook the 1st guy.
in a perfect world 1 guy would 99 the gate, the other 2 would instantly find the totems, would cleanse the noed and than all 3 would orchestrate a master rescue mission, everybody would take their protection hits and everybody would escape.
the cold hard reality
not all totems are in clear line of sight, at least one is kinda hidden, gens are far from each other, takes time to go from one to the next, 3-gening is a thing, most people don't run kindred, at least 1 survivor will go for the rescue, he will take a hit and will go selfcare in the corner of the map, the other 2 survivors will understand that the killer is chasing the other guy and both will rush for the rescue because the hooked guy is almost on 2nd stage. nobody is doing gens. when they arrive and see the facecamper, they will start trying a kamikaze play to save the poor guy on the hook. one of them will be slugged and the first one will hook suicide and try finding another match. nobody doing gens. the killer has his second hook. now the remaning survivors have 120 s to do 3 gens and cleanse 5 totems, the second hooked will get pissed off and will try to kobe, he will fail and die on 1st hook in less than 30s. The killer got his 3/4k because no objective will be done.
conclusion
- this is why NOED is so OP specially against solo queuers. we have absolutely no information most of the time
- even against good swf NOED is kinda OP because most people don't like to just rush gens and leave a friend behind
- this is why survivors should NOT cleanse totems. 1st scenario they've lost time cleansing, 2nd scenario they would die because cleansing 3 totems isn't enough, 3rd scenario is unlikely to work out even with a military sweaty 4 man swf.
Useful (maybe not) information
- I hope Otz post a video about his camping experiment soon
- sorry for English mistakes, not my main language :3
- sorry for the big wall of text, I'm kinda wordy sometimes (maybe always)
Comments
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I'll just leave this here
Before I start working on a gen, I run around the map cleansing every totem I see, making the perk useless.
PS. Yes sometimes you get matched with potatoes but at least you won't have to deal with noed even in a hatch situation
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Meanwhile, I will be running around with builds like these and by the time you cleanse those 5 totems someone has already been mori'd. Not that you even need NOED on builds like these but it's more proving how dumb the perk is when you stack it with other overpowered things.
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What you described was entirely the survivors fault. In the event of face camping, you do the gens and leave. You're not entitled to a 4 man escape. Plus changing noed will do nothing to stop this, because they will just use bubba.
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Just pressure the bones, bro
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this is the "in perfect world" scenario 3. but as I mentioned later, we all know this situation happens once in a lifetime, specially on solo queue where lack of information is key. you only discover that the killer is facecamping if you go there check by yourself. if you do that, you will automatically not be doing gens and in a situation of facecamping every second rushing gens is gold.
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throwing a perk icon doesnt solve the problem. running all map looking for totems will not make gen progress, it would increase the 4k probability. also, if one person finds one well hidden totem and cleanse it, I'll spend the rest of the game looking for the 5th totem because there is no indication of remaining totems. pretty good solution.
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Or...you know...
You run the literal best aura perk in the game.
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I'll See your small game and raise you
Is the op really posting complaining that they can't do ALL the objectives during one person's set of hook phases?
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I like how you're bitching about noed, and bringing an ivory mori, something that's far more broken than noed and has no counter. If you can't 3-4k with the worst killers with no perks and no add ons bringing an ivory mori, you're trash at the game. Its like a killer whining about lithe or something when survivors are all using ds. Nonesense. Noed is fine
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The only overpowered thing on you list is iri head huntress(seriously BHVR, stop letting it stack with infantry belt ffs).
For Freddy, stop genrushing for 30 seconds and go wake up
For Billy, keep breaking LOS and don't be greedy with pallets. if he chainsaws you at point blank he was already able to M1 you, so it's no different from Devour or MyC
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I've put survivors in a really comfort situation: first hook with only 3 gens remaining and even so it was mathematically impossible to do all the objectives during two complete hook stages. if you change any variable like, 4 gens to be completed, the person trying to kobe, or one survivor dropping gens to try the unhook, things get worst.
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Lol, as I said, you don't need NOED when you are running builds like those. But tell me, where does "do bones" factor into all that? There's plenty of players who are not good enough to 3-4k even with those builds, and as a survivor if you somehow manage to get to the endgame against them.....well get 1 shot and 1 hooked noob.
Even if you are garbage, you can still get at least a 2-3k by getting 2 kills in 5 gens and then collecting your free NOED kill. That's the end of discussion really. How people still defend it is beyond me, probably just relying on it for kills.
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stop genrushing and go the other side of the map to wake up againts a facecamper? it will end fine of course
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If you don't think instasaw billy with endfury isn't overpowered, well, you probably don't play alot of billy. He's one of the strongest killers in the game base-kit, let alone with instasaw and ignoring pallets.
Forever Freddy having the highest kills rates in the game means he is balanced, of course. He's not super easy to play either.
I could list build after build after build that killers can run that are so overpowered you don't need 4 perks all game. And that's where NOED is a big problem.
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I mean you could say the same with 4 Survivors with DS,Unbreakable,BT,Dead Hard,Sprint Burst or Adrenaline with Flash Lights and Med Kits and a strong Map Offering,right?
That doesn't prove anything
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You know that using a clock gives you a whopping 90 seconds of safety right? During that time, Freddy is an easily-looped M1 Killer. Also keep in mind that by default being asleep helps Freddy because it reduces his teleport cooldown by a considerable amount for each sleeping survivor
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I started using noed when ruin was changed because I don't typically play the most powered killers because its too easy. But Gens were just going too fast and nothing stops it. I'm a really good killer, but getting gen rushed sucks. There is nothing quite as satisfying as punishing a swat swf who gen rushed the ######### out of you with noed. I'll probably stop running it now that God loops are fixed, maybe!
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That's why I said to drop pallets early and not greed them. If you drop the pallet early, you remove half of his perks
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@aregularplayer I have a story for you. Killer hooks meg after all the gens are done. Meg get rescued by Bill, and David. Nea is waiting at the 99% exit gate as meg is in full Sprint towards her with David and Bill busy blocking.
Bill makes a grave mistake veers right though a window while David and meg go left.
The killer sees his chance to down meg again as she passes the exit doors. Killer swings down meg. She crawls toward the exit. The killer happy to get one kill picks up meg only to scream in agony of being stab by decisive strike.
So I am confused this is a noed novel but you talk about otz face camping video. Where he is trying to prove that noed is op but all he does is prove that face camping is a direct counter to overly altruistic swf.
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have you tried pressuring the bones ?
You really just need to pressure your skillchecks...
Lol
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Lol but seriously lemme talk this out
Each survivor only needs to complete 105 seconds each of objective to escape so in a perfect world like you describe with only 3 players they each only need to add 35 seconds of objective 140eachfor3surviors
so after the 120 camping
If they did nothing and spawned in at gens and the 3rd man spawned in hooked and campt. in 20 seconds the gates are open and everyone is out.
You can even say that as long as a survivors at least tried to chase they would waste 20 seconds there and 5 more being carried to a hook... you could even say that two gen are done before the first chase because thats far more likely.
2 gens done... 1 facecamp hook starts 120 seconds on the clock... thats 3 gens and gate left thats 86 seconds of objective each but you can't take turns at the gate so really its 80 seconds and all gens are complete...
you still have 40 before he's dead to open the gates and bounce.
I mean... toolbox and skillchecks can shave 12-15 seconds off gens too
The only thing holding players back from 3E every game EZ GG is the fact that map sizes slow them down because they have to run to each gen... but don't worry they are gonna buff survivors by shrinking the maps so they won't have to cover as much distance
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Before you start working on a gen, you run around doing nothing productive as your teammates get hooked? I finally understand my teammates' mindsets in solo queue.
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You're not that good in story telling.
I didn't have 5h free to watch his stream so I have no idea about how it ended up, all I know is that he was trying an experiment of facecamp + noed and according to math and experience, I imagine the results. Also, you know that not everybody in the world is in a swf, right? Solo queuers also try to save people because nobody really enjoy the facecamping games. Facecamping isn't OP against swf alone, it is in fact OP in general. Just like NOED which may save your ass if you suck even at facecamping.
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The killer must find a survivor first, which usually takes 30 to 60 seconds.
Meanwhile I'm already cleansing my second totem and the other two survivors are possibly working on gens (at least at red ranks).
Usually this process takes me less 5 minutes and it really helps the team in the long run.
Also, don't forget that Ruin, DH and other hex perks exist
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Yes I do know that not everyone on the world is a swf I play solo survivor quite often . I was merely stating what happened in the video that you mentioned in your post that you have not seen, But think it's relevant to your post.
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Of course it does. I rarely hit a full rank 1 SWF running the full meta builds, and i've played enough to know who they are on NA by now. Maybe 1 in 500 games are like that?
Meanwhile, with BBQ, i can be rocking full purple builds and a mori every ~2-3 games. I almost get a mori every bloodweb. And a mori is almost a free win against solo Q teams if you play scummy enough.
How much did the meta builds help these guys? Almost not at all? They didn't even get past 2 gens. I could swap any of those perks for NOED and guarantee the win, but I don't feel the need.
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"Doing totems isn't productive"
"I'm sick of dying to NOED, nerf plz!"
See how dumb you sound?
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The first statement is true, the second statement is fabricated. I don't see how I could be sounding dumb, except to people with huge bias blinders to game health. All I request is that the developers fix NOED's problems, I don't care if it's a buff or a nerf. These changes need to happen, regardless of what "side" you want to "align" with.
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You cannot whine about NOED and believe cleasing totems is not productive. There are SEVERAL reasons why that belief is blatantly false to begin with:
- They give 1k BP per totem, you can get over half of your boldness points without even seeing the Killer
- They reduce the effectiveness of Thrill of The Hunt, making actual Hexes easier to cleanse
- They give a free 8 second heal with Inner Strength
- Doing all 5 totems gets rid of NOED. You can also leave one or two and check back when the 5th gen pops
- Dull totems were changed to give Lightbringer points along with hexes
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"This is why NOED is so OP against solo queue" - your entire example had nothing to do with NOED.
You're talking about facecamping. Under your entire example of "The Cold Hard Reality" (HAHAHAHA) the Killer may as well have had no Perks at all.
NOED can be countered just by Survivors cleansing dulls when they see them.
Further, in your example Survivors have already cleansed 3 totems. I've had NOED literally light up under my fingers as I was cleansing a dull right when the last gen was completed. They just need to find two totems and maps are an item in the game.
Poor, poor Survivor Mains! If only this Survival Horror game was just handed to you on a silver pla-- OH HI DECISIVE STRIKE! HEY THERE BORROWED TIME! WHAT'S UP, UNBREAKABLE!? HOW ARE YOU DOING, SKELETON KEY!? HEY THERE WINDOW ALIGNMENT! HI PALLETS! HI MORE PALLETS! HI HADDONFIELD! HEY THERE GRIM PANTRY! WHAT'S UP, THOMPSON'S HOUSE!?
No, you're right, man. NOED is what ruins this game..................................................................................... :|
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- Boldness doesn't matter if you're a competitive survivor who can do chase
- 15.8+ seconds to cleanse a dull usually isn't worth .9 seconds reduced on consecutive totems
- True, cleansing dulls is good with IS
- Not all killers have NOED
- Rank doesn't matter to most people, surviving to open the exit gates would be a better strategy for those that do care about these points
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Oh, and PS - Yes, I really hope OTZDARVA will post videos about why him camping and not playing fair made the game easy for him.
That's so fair to all Killers!
A veteran popular streamer is totally the point of measurement for all players - after all, he has an average amount of hours in the game (over 8,000 hours in the game, just like everybody else here and the majority of the playerbase), he's totally a point of comparison for the Ghostface Main who plays the game for like 3 hours at most on weekends only. Otzdarva camping someone would be the exact same thing.
And it's totally a choice that Killers make, it's not that most Killers will lose 2-4 gens now before they get a single hook and have no choice (they should just play better by existing in multiple different places at once). No, no, no, you're right - Killers are all playing at the level of someone who literally plays the game 10 hours a day every day for a living.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the "experiment" and its empirical results and I absolutely hope that devs will watch it and say to themselves "this is absolutely indicative of all Killer players in the game, we should design the game around this streamer's skill level". Yes, that'll be great. Just make sure that in order to play Killer at all you have to literally move into the game and play it like it's the Olympics or play like you're a bodybuilder and DBD is your gym.
Yes. Amazing. Yes.
SMH
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You act like the game is easy for otz...I'm pretty sure that's not quite right
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- It's still a considerable amount of BP for the time invested
- It actually is considering you'll need every second you can get. If a Killer is running TotH, you can guarantee they're gonna beeline to the totem, so you want to pop it ASAP
- Good to have a point of agreement
- Killers have to deal with the same thing. Not all survivors have DS, but we still have to slug them for a full minute just in case if ANYBODY is the obsession, that's a whopping 4 minutes wasted for the possibility of a perk ruining momentum
- I would argue that the majority of people care about rank, considering how much they moan about matchmaking
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- The bp are good, but not worth in a category you're maxing no matter what.
- This can sometimes be the case, that's why my statement isn't definitive. Mostly TotH will get popped when it is safe to do so, like when the killer is across the map or in the middle of a chase. The reduction of a second is still pretty niche, and this point is null if the killer is not running TotH.
- Agreed.
- Slugging isn't the only counter to DS, the better play is usually to not target recently unhooked survivors in the first place. An easy way to do this is to reduce your proximity to hooked survivors and attempting to pressure survivors on generators. Just like the better play to countering NOED is taking note of totems you see out in the open instead of cleansing them. You don't waste any time if the killer doesn't have NOED and you also increase the chance of NOED spawning somewhere easy to cleanse, usually allowing you to pop it before someone takes a hit if you take the time to do one last round of the totems because the other survivors are already hitting gates.
- Good point, but do they care about ranking up? Also if they did care, why would they cleanse totems instead of doing generators and exit gates which are more reliably efficient in terms of impact on survival(gives a lot of emblems).
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Not targeting recently unhooked survivors is actually a terrible play. Slugging the survivor means they can't run off to do a generator, and another survivor has to pick them up. Start a chase with a third, and you have 75% of the survivors busy without having to eat the DS stun. And the TotH argument only makes sense in the context of SWF. The average solo survivor has no way of knowing where the killer is outside of just "not on them" unless the obsession is being chased. They don't have the luxury of picking a time to pop it
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You can usually tell a survivor is being chased when the killer injures them.
You are correct in it being a terrible play if your are proxy camping or if they are farmed. Otherwise, my point still stands because you can get more survivors off of generators during their disadvantaged state, sometimes allowing you to snowball and pause their objective progress completely. Proxy camping will not do this and is therefore the sub-optimal play. Hope this clears up your confusion.
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Proxy camping is a myth. 9 times out of 10, theres generators near the hook so there's no real reason to move far away
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Okay then after you check them why stay?
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Because the Survivors 3 gened themselves like lemmings but are gonna scream killer camping because survivors deserve a 4 escape
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That's a good reason
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the only way to stop the face camping would be if the hook time froze if the killer was so many meters close to the hook, same as t-bagging if a pallet has been dropped you cant crouch behind it or you cant crouch in the exit gate
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Waking up against Freddy is actually the worst thing you could do because if you're not humping gens you're gonna die. People complain about 6 minute gen times but it's not like a killer can't get that same effect if people are not humping gens. If you wanna wake up, blow up a generator(if he's not using Red Paint Brush), otherwise, just stay asleep. You fall asleep far too often for it to be beneficial to run all the way to the other side of the map. Once is fine, but any more than that and you're killing your team. This is just me assuming, and I could be wrong(about you playing mostly killer), but this is why I feel a lot of killers talk about playing the survivor side like they know what they're doing, but then end up saying things like this.
I actually have a Freddy build that makes it pretty much necessary to wake up, and one person is forced to always be asleep. It pretty much destroys the logic that I have just said, but I won't tell though it because it's pretty frustrating and could likely have a rank 12 beat a team of rank 5s.
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This is the main point.
The number of times I've ended up with more kills than I deserved simply because survivors felt entitled to a full 4-man escape and hung around longer than they should have - and then raged in chat after about how I was being so unfair somehow - is staggering.
Just take the escape. Stop trying to make every match a "flawless victory".
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The point I think OP is trying to make, is that that person on the hook will die, and all the gens will not be finished by the time they die, unless NO OTHER THINGS IN THE GAME have been done and everyone is humping gens already with no intention of getting the unhooked person off the hook to begin with, before they even know the killer camped. The killer will likely have another person hooked before 4 gens are finished, if two people are on the same gen, which happens extremely often due to how limited in number gens are and how survivors generally spawn together. People who claim "Just do the gens and leave and take your 3 man" aren't doing their math. If it takes 80 seconds to do one generator, and 3 people are on a generator each(not assuming anyone is with another person on a gen), that'd be 3 and a half gens worth of progress. This removes searching from chests, doing totems, and any other thing that survivors were given to do in a match. So this scenario would only happen in a perfect world. IN A PERFECT WORLD against camping, this is saying 2 people will likely die, and 2 people will likely escape, REGARDLESS of circumstances. Because survivors "shouldn't try to save against a camping killer" meaning that once that second person who is being tunneled to death gets hooked, the other two should leave. This is why it's not a "free escape" when someone's camping.
I always hear this word "entitled". Of course, it's because they're "entitled" that they feel bad for a fellow human who is having the most miserable experience in the game because a killer decided not to let them said game. What it seems to me is that killers are "entitled" to have their one kill regardless of how miserable of an experience they are making to another player. Almost like, dare I say it, griefing?
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You do know that 90% of Freddy's kit is negated if you wake up right? His teleport cooldown is way longer, his traps are useless, he has a terror radius, and his addons have no effect. Waking up with a clock also gives you an extra 30 seconds before you fall alseep again
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You do know that it takes likely 30 to 60 seconds just to WALK to a clock, right? Freddy's power isn't special enough to have to force yourself to wake up. This just sounds like you want people to kill themselves. I've tried it myself, going to a clock every time just to wake up, because despite knowing how STUPID of an idea this was, I wanted to see if it worked. Guess what? It was an EASY 4k. Clocks spawn on the literal other side of the map AS A MECHANIC. Freddy's power is more useful IF people are going to clocks and waking themselves up.
If you want to wake up, it's best to get a gen to like 80-90% and fail the next skillcheck, unless he has RPB. If you happen to end up at a gen near the clock that you originally had, then that's also another good opportunity, but halting all gen progress just to go to a clock is stupid and will get your team killed. You have to either be WANTING to play on the stupidity of people to get easier games when you play Freddy, or just don't know how to play against him as a survivor.
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If he was getting "easy" 4ks, you suck at going against Freddy. he can only be in one place at once, and there are three different methods to wake up:
- Clocks- short interaction with no notification, gives 30 second grace period
- Failed Skillcheck-instant and wakes up everyone at the gen, but sets back progress by 10% and notifies Freddy to teleport and put you to sleep again
- Failed healing wakes up the injured survivor iirc, but has the same downsides as above
- Awake survivors can wake up sleeping ones, but it gets slower each time
If you aren't awake the majority of the time, you honestly need to get better at the game. Freddy is literally an M1 Killer with even less chase potential than Clown or Trapper if you just stay awake
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The killer killing you isn't "griefing".
Also, when I'm playing survivor, I'm fine with sitting on a hook while my team finishes everything because the killer can't stop staring at me. That's not "the most miserable experience", it's just amusing.
One more thing: If survivors would stop being so goddamn thirsty for unhooks, killers wouldn't seem to be "camping". Seriously, if you're going to follow the killer around like a lost puppy and constantly unhook people 2.3 seconds after they've been hooked, don't call it "camping" when they turn around and smack one of you.
(Seriously, that happens at least half of my games when I play killer, and then invariably the survivors whine that I "camped" or "tunneled". The hell do they expect me to do, just pretend I didn't notice the unhook that happened almost literally within my lunge range?)
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The killer not allowing you to play the game is griefing.
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