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When are SWF on comms going to be balanced?
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As others already mentioned.Nerfing SWF isn't the way to balance that.
The main advantage SWF has above solo players actually is information.They are pretty much able to to communicate everything the killer is doing at all times.Because of this amount of information they are able to coordinate their actions to a degree solo players never can.
What the devs now have to do is give survivors a compareable amount of information like SWFs have in order to bring solo players to a similiar position as SWF.
Even adding small things like indicators when a survivor gets chased or heals someone/himself or being able to see the loadout of every survivor would give the solo player much more information to work with and help him choose the best course of action.
The real problem on the other hand however is that they would have to implement something for the killers as well for the amount of information all survivors would get.I certainly can't think of anything that would balance that out for the killers side though
So if the devs can't think of something to buff the killers for more information to all survivor they won't be able to change anything unfortunately.
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Swf is already balanced.
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If facecamping and tunnelling is a legitimate way to play the game then so is sfw and shouldn’t go punished
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I don't think there is a good way to nerf SWF without hurting someone else as well. The best thing I can think of is to give the killer an option before queuing up for a match that lets them include SWF players in their matchmaking search. You probably throw them some extra % of BP for doing this.
This lets players who don't care or just want the extra BP at any cost to play with anyone as usual and the players who don't want to deal with groups don't have to anymore.
On the other hand this would probably lengthen matchmaking times, which are already off and on for me at least, and possibly could mess with some other matchmaking stuff.
Either way I think this is a realistic way to at least lessen the amount of frustration people have with SWF groups.
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SWF is the only reason this game still has a playerbase, and they will 100% add SWF if they ever made a DBD.
Do you know how ridiculous it is to even suggest a game past 2020 that is team based that stops you from playing with your friends? Pretty ridiculous, game ending, even.
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They don't want to punish the groups of casual friends because there's some SWAT units playing SWF as well.
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They came out and said SWF was always intended, people also used to dodge lobbie to be queued together, do you really think people would stick around if they had to constantly dodge lobbie and hopefully get paired as a 4 man? I don't think so, forced solo would be hell, killer is the easiest it's ever been, killers 4Kd 3 years ago, and it's only gotten easier to do so.
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Swf should have never happened. They should've sticked to their design philosophy. They designed a game around solo players not knowing what others do.
Now rank 1 is full of 4-swfs with second chance loadouts, because behaviour doesnt balance around them.
Safe to say, the complains about swf should be taken seriously. But the devs wont do anything about it. Its a higranked killer problem, who cares. Lowranked 4-swfs are more important.
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“Its a highranked killer problem” God loops weren’t a low ranked swf problem or low ranked killer problem, they were a high ranked killer problem. Judging from that, I’d say they do care about high ranked killer problems.
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It took them 3,5 years to START fixing infinites.
If there's anything telling you, that someone doesnt care about something, its not doing anything for years about it.
Money was only spent for survivor qol in the first years. Killers were literally irrelevant.
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I've been thinking about this. My idea, and I don't know how good it is, is to increase the difficulty on the survivor side if it is swf (I know not all swf are swat swf but the game has no way of detecting that). For example, for every member in the lobby as a swf; extra gens spawn or take x% longer for each swf member, gens spawn closer to each other so gen patrolling is easier for the killer, entity progression on hooks is faster by x% for each swf member, more hooks etc.
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See, this is what killers should be fighting for instead of trying to get DS or Unbreakable or DH or some other totally fine survivor perk nerfed. The perks are not the problem, it's SWF that's the problem. The perks are easily played around, SWF much less so. A perkless SWF squad of really good survivors is going to steamroll pretty much any killer in the game, therefore perks are NOT the problem. Sorry it's just triggering how many people complain about DS recently and how ######### easy as ######### it is to play around.
That said, IMO the best solution to SWF is to limit perks to 1 instance among the group. That means only 1 person can run DS, only 1 can have UB, only 1 can have DH, and so on. If you are solo this doesn't affect you. If you are dubs then you basically get more perks to pick from, but still no overlap. If you are a 4 man then you need to focus on team builds and can't just run full meta on each survivor. You'd need to spread out all the best perks, or you could stack all those perks on 1 guy whose entire purpose is to get chased all game.
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I agree, clown is trash, Legion, Plague & Wraith are 100% playable, you're just bad with them, same goes for Ghostface, stop expecting and wanting to be good with every killer all the time, it's unrealistic.
It's 100% the easiest it's ever been, if you think playing killer was easier when, actual infinites existed, old BNPs existed, old insta heals existed, more pallets existed, double pallets existed, vacuum pallet existed then by all means preach it becaue no one else is preaching that with you, if with the removal of all this stuff didn't help you then you were never a good killer to begin with.
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I think that's a good idea actually. No 4 man meta with coms and more difficult for swf but not so difficult they can't play well or be played against
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You buff or nerf a perk / add-on but you'll never make that huge gap with SWF comms.
I've have this discussion with SWFs that they are cheating and each time they stop wanting to talk about it because it is an obvious unfair advantage to those who play solo survivor, take for example the statements in this thread that have as much substance as policitians promises.
I'd love BHVR to actually show me who I play and whether they are really decent players or just another SWF littered around red ranks but then that would be officially addressing the white elephant.
The solution is quite simple, you just thana slow down the SWFs or for the hard core killers offer them more % of BP.
Post edited by Mandy on0 -
So it doesn’t matter that it was fixed? I know I’m personally happy for the balance changes they add.
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Its an insult to every killermain that they've kept it for almost 4 years. Thats how i feel about it tbh.
Its about ######### time describes it better than beeing happy about it.
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At least give us an indicator! Without it, we have to assume they're SWF and bring strong stuff!
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It really isn’t an insult, the fact that they’re making things better makes a lot of people happy. I know as a killer I am happy for those changes.
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The changes are great. I meant the way they handled infinite windows after release. If they took it seriously, they could have designed buildings without ones and fixed the early ones. Its preventable, lets be real.
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The bp bonus is a good option, everyone should be happy this way
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All I want is maybe an indicator after the match and a BP bonus (25% per survivor in SWF?) for the killer so there's less incentive to dodge.
Putting an opt out means SWF will likely get very few killers. Not all SWF are Survivor Team SIx but even "Casual" SWF with one other guy still is an advantage just because you have comms. ("The killer is X". "He has X perk." "He's chasing me." "I dropped god pallet." "Don't rescue me he's camping with insidious in the basement.")
Arbitrary restrictions on SWF just feels too harsh.
I think solos need better advantages so they're similar to SWF in terms of information. A counter of totems remaining. Maybe an indicator if a survivor is being chased. etc.
Once that's done and solo + SWF are similar (SWF still has better coordination, but solos still get access to similar information that a SWF usually gets like totems, chase status, maybe how many times a survivor has been hooked. Take a cue from Mobile and put survivor loadouts in the pre-game lobby so I know for example Adam is running Deliverance and a green medkit, Bill has borrowed time, and Ace is running Plunderer's Instinct) balance killers around this.
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Killers have been leaving in their droves, hence the wait times and ridiculous matchmaking. To buff solo survivors to SWF level who currently aren't balanced and overpowered to see how it goes would be a mistake.
The reason SWFs aren't identified to killers are only because they are mainly dodged due to the unfun and unfair advantage, why aren't BHVR addressing this? You need killers for survivors to play unless killers are being automated.
Give the killers an option with SWFs, more bp or Thana like slow down to attempt to balance
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Why are all of your posts about swf? Lol
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I know how to fix it: balance around swat swf groups. This means you have to buff killers and but also solo survivors. Once everyone is on the same page everyone can have fun.
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Noone is asking to make solos EXACTLY as strong as 4 men swat team on coms. But you can't deny that the gap is insanely huge and you can't deny that many little changes could close the gap a lot. Ofc, it's never gonna be completely closed. But I take 1 meter gap over 1 kilometer gap and it's gonna be very healthy for everyone.
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This is true. Or at least we can say coms has the potential to make a team stronger. Therfore, the whole game should be balanced around coms. This includes buffing killer, rework maps etc but ALSO buffing solos to keep up. At the end, swf would climb 1 point in terms of power while solos and killers climb 10 points and they would all meet at 11 (+-1) points and we would have a much more even playground for every role you pick as a player.
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I talk about things relevant in our game, why don't you?
BHVRs response has so far been to buff all survivors first.....
Exactly, you can't ignore it. You have to attempt to help reduce that impossible gap.
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Survivor message system (instead of voice chat)
- Im chased
- Focus generators
- Behind you
- Heal me
- Stop running idiot, heal me
- Etc
- Im at "location" ( special landmark-name generated by current location)
Show survivor perks to each pother survivor in lobby (swf more likely to know each others perks)
Add a "prefered role" to lobby screen gen jockey, clicky-clicky-distractor etc ( swfs do have that stuff??)
Boom solo survivors closer to swf
My personal opinion is that comms give the advantage of relaying information to others instad pof magically generating it, thats why i think the gap shouldnt be closed with aura reading or UI-elements, those'll affect swfs too.
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"For BHVR to have no negative to being in a SWF is crazy, then add onto that they play with communications..."
So, you think survivors should be penalized for simply playing with their friends...before you even taking into consideration comms? Is it? Is it crazy to think in a multi-player game you should be able to squad up without taking a nerf? I don't think thats crazy at all. I think that is pretty standard.
What incentivizes Killers to play with SWF? The fact that they want to play DBD and no one gets to pick and choose who/what they play against. Not survivors, not Killers. You think survivors want to play against a scratched mirror Myers on Lery's or an iri head huntress or a mori on literally any killer? Of course not, but you get what you get.
Killers already earn BP easier than survivors, and not every SWF is a SWAT Team that needs to be slowed down.
You know what also has an effect on up and coming players? Killers with full, optimal load outs and hundreds of hours in the game, who lurk in low ranks because they enjoy owning newb survivors teams. But alas, they exist. In droves, because it's harder to PIP as Killer. And you know what, that's life.
The game has made TONS of changes aimed at bridging the gap between SWF/Killers for the last year and a half. Suck it up.
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"Is it crazy to think in a multi-player game you should be able to squad up without taking a nerf? I don't think thats crazy at all. I think that is pretty standard."
Standard in some games, not in others which includes this game. SWF you know what loadout to bring and not waste slots with duplicates such as Small Game. SWFC where you could for reasonable example run OoO on one survivor who can relay the killers location to the entire team or not to have three waste their time by all trying to unhook them etc. This is why in a time management loop simulator comms negate many perks and optimise time compared to solo teams, why if they wish to play with their friends should they not be balanced with solo players and have no negatives?
"What incentivizes Killers to play with SWF? The fact that they want to play DBD and no one gets to pick and choose who/what they play against. Not survivors, not Killers. You think survivors want to play against a scratched mirror Myers on Lery's or an iri head huntress or a mori on literally any killer? Of course not, but you get what you get."
I'm afraid killers do get to pick and choose who they face, that is why they see what items survivors are bringing in and if there are 4 identically dressed Claudettes. The reason why people want to play survivor is it is fun and whilst some people enjoy playing killer even at times the fun is exhausting trying to deal with 4 seperate minds or with SWF 4 collective minds. If certain killers/perks/addons are unfun or unfair they get nerfed/balanced.
"Killers already earn BP easier than survivors, and not every SWF is a SWAT Team that needs to be slowed down."
Not every killer is after BP, I play DBD for fun. If you play console nearly every SWF is a 'chilled' team on comms in red ranks, you can't argue that because SWF is an advantage people will not use it... "Chill team 6, the unspecified stealthy killer may or may not be about to creep up on you".
"You know what also has an effect on up and coming players? Killers with full, optimal load outs and hundreds of hours in the game, who lurk in low ranks because they enjoy owning newb survivors teams. But alas, they exist. In droves, because it's harder to PIP as Killer. And you know what, that's life."
I found sweaty survivors in droves when a new killer, it works both ways although to be honest once you rank to around 10-12 on killer you are facing a red rank SWF due to demand of people wanting to have fun as survivor not killer.
"The game has made TONS of changes aimed at bridging the gap between SWF/Killers for the last year and a half."
Vague but I'd be happy to hear about only 10 of those tons please...
"Suck it up."
I think killers have done a pretty good job so far and it is exactly that attitude why some killers have been trying and leaving to play CIV.
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First it would be impossible for the game to know if you are on comms. You communicate on Xbox via their own in-house comm system not through DBD, PCs use Discord...hell you could all communicate on a cellphone as far as that went. Secondly, if you want to punish people for swfs...how do you propose to punish the 2 swf and not the two solos as well? Or what about the swfs who aren't on comms? Go ahead and dream but not going to happen. And btw...as a person who plays swfs (mostly 2 man on comms but also 3 man and 4 man ones) the advantage isn't as great as you imagine. I've been crushed in a swf match and I have destroyed killers as a solo. Do you have an advantage as a swf...sure...like being told some loser is camping using insidious, but the advantage isn't all that great. As much as I'd love to be on Task Force Blue and bully killers until they uninstalled the game...sadly we aren't all that. Saw a rank 20 (with 2000 hours in game I'll admit) destroy a SWF last night....rank 1, rank 3, rank 8, rank 9. You give us too much credit. Of course I suppose in your world if you don't get a 4K every time must be something seriously wrong with the balance.
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"First it would be impossible for the game to know if you are on comms."
Yes, I think we can all agree on that which is why comms can't be blocked. I'm not sure why you're going into detail about this tho...
"Secondly, if you want to punish people for swfs...how do you propose to punish the 2 swf and not the two solos as well? Or what about the swfs who aren't on comms?"
Copied and pasted from my very first post: "BHVR appears to be improving their game and would like to suggest two options when the killer plays SWFs, for them to either take an improved BP or for the developing killers a slow down (like thana) imposed only on the SWF players."
"Go ahead and dream but not going to happen."
Please explain why you don't want balance in the game?
"And btw...as a person who plays swfs (mostly 2 man on comms but also 3 man and 4 man ones) the advantage isn't as great as you imagine."
I think I know why you haven't expanded on your statement previous to this now...
"I've been crushed in a swf match and I have destroyed killers as a solo. Do you have an advantage as a swf...sure...like being told some loser is camping using insidious, but the advantage isn't all that great."
You keep telling me it isn't great, simply it is an advantage needs to be balanced.
"As much as I'd love to be on Task Force Blue and bully killers until they uninstalled the game...sadly we aren't all that. Saw a rank 20 (with 2000" hours in game I'll admit) destroy a SWF last night....rank 1, rank 3, rank 8, rank 9."
And vice vera, because SWF lose or win it doesn't mean it shouldn't be balanced.
"You give us too much credit. Of course I suppose in your world if you don't get a 4K every time must be something seriously wrong with the balance."
From this I believe you just play survivor and are frustrated that an unfair advantage you have in SWF could be removed or reduced and I understand that you likely have fun from winning but not losing but think about it from the killers prosepective, how is it fair or fun for them? I play both survivor and recently killer again but the real fun is in survivor games. Lets see balance the game and see waiting times reduced with more people actually wanting to play killer? It's a symbiotic relationship bud, you can't play survivor without a killer.
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"From this I believe you just play survivor and are frustrated that an unfair advantage you have in SWF could be removed or reduced and I understand that you likely have fun from winning but not losing but think about it from the killers prosepective, how is it fair or fun for them? I play both survivor and recently killer again but the real fun is in survivor games. Lets see balance the game and see waiting times reduced with more people actually wanting to play killer? It's a symbiotic relationship bud, you can't play survivor without a killer."
Don't really care about killers at all and don't really care about their perspective. I really don't want them to have any fun at all frankly...but hey that's just me.
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Outside of extremely accurate matchmaking and long queues, the only solution I can think of myself is making two queues for killers, with a BP bonus and different pipping algorithm if you choose to play against SWFs. There are still many problems with this solution ,however.
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"Don't really care about killers at all and don't really care about their perspective. I really don't want them to have any fun at all frankly...but hey that's just me."
An honest reply but if we don't balance the game nobody will want to play unfun killer, survivor queues rocket and the game die
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